MarkQuiet's group - FULL (Page 5)

You've got some valid points.  I guess I liked the go longer, no pain, faster speed aspects of the book.  I've been running off and on for all my life but really embraced it (and started enjoying it) since last summer without injury except sore muscles.  I've not had this knee thing before.  Another reason for making changes was that the book seemed to be emphasizing things I had naturally developed, shorter stride, faster cadence, etc.  I figured that by taking what I was already doing and applying a few new techniques, I could be that much better.  I have found that the lean has helped increase speed, but now, at what cost?  I'm now concerned that I won't be able to recapture the form I had a few months ago.  I'm also considering consulting a doc to see what the appropriate cure may be while I mentally change back to the old form.

Thanks for your input.

Actually, they are a year in age, but only 6 months in running age.  Also, I'm alternating between 2 pairs so these are not being used as much.  I think the lean/back kick espoused in CR has led to the increased pounding.  I'll figure out how to get back to the old system.  Then I'll rule on the shoes.

Yes, I've thought about that and the doc, as well.  I'll have to see how things are by next weekend - which reminds me, I need to get a babysitter.

So I take that as, you and Jill will be there this Saturday?

Couple things...I completely agree with the shoes thing.

I also completely agree with the last paragraph there.  Effort and training WILL give you your speed.  In the book, and all those Pose and Chi running stuff, most of the "huge gains" are from people who didn't do much running.  Was it the technique, or the running?  I'm gonna argue for the latter.

As for where Kirk says he disagrees with me.....Actually, we don't.  I will openly admit that your form will change.  I, however, think that it will change, on its own!  This change is a byproduct of increased mileage and time spent actually DOING the act of running.  You will naturally develop changes in your form.  If you want to work on form, there are exercises you can do that will help.  I would do them about once a week or so.

I constantly see people talk about upping cadence, or modifying this or that.  Most of these people are relatively new runners.  The thing is, their form usually isn't "bad" per se.  Inefficient, probably, but not bad.  How do most of those runners get faster?  Running more.  Building aerobic base.  Getting time in on the feet.  The standard beginner would be better served by upping their weekly distance and number of times they run than by worrying about how close their cadence matches the elites.

Not being derogatory on the term beginner, either. 

It looks like Scout and I are in agreement then. More miles = faster, more effiecent form

I think that a trap most people fall into with running is the same for weight-loss or almost any type of sport. They want it all NOW. Unfortanetly, speed does not happen over night. I have been running most of my life, but not really seriously until two years ago. That first summer I was so happy to break 10 minute miles for a 5K. Now, two years later, I am running sub 7 for a 5K. It takes time and it take A LOT of miles (1200miles last year).

I once had a friend that was really good at some sport (which eludes me right now). I asked him how he could be so good - he responded "The 3 Ps. Practice (lots of it), Patience (for all the practice), and Perseverance (not quitting)".  Words I still use.

Sorry for jumping in your thread....but Kirk's a friend of mine, so I am always reading it.

Anyway.....Doug....Your pain kind of sounds like something that happened to me last year.  Sort of came out of nowhere, and suddenly I couldn't even walk.  Went to the ortho, and he said it was Patella Femoral Syndrom (sp?)  Basically it is where your outside thigh muscles are pulling your knee cap to the outside of your leg, and so your knee cap is not lining up right in it's groove, causing lots of pain.  The only thing to fix it was rehab at home.  I just had to do these leg lifts to strengthen the muscles on the inside of my thigh, just above my knee, so the inside muscles would pull it back in place.  The exercises were basically laying on your back with your legs straight. Normally your foot is pointing straight up, but now you want to tilt it to the ouside at a 45 degree angle.  Then you start lifiting your leg, and isolating that muscle just above the knee on the inside.  I just did it over and over, day after day.  And it worked.   I really hope that is not what you have, but it sounded very similar.  Hope your knee starts feeling better.

~ Tanya

Jump in anytime tAnya.

It also goes to show how strength training can help in "unseen" areas.

I appreciate all the advice and comments.   But I'm not starting any rehab until a diagnoses.  Which may be tomorrow.  We'll see how my soccer game goes (crazy, I know, but it is my first love and the championship match).  I'll wear my old soft knee brace for moral support.

As for the running comments - I agree with y'all.  I was increasing speed and distance on my own and developing a new gait without even thinking about it.  That's the problem.  I started to analyze and tinker - without any input from a pro.  Tomorrow it's time to rest, ice, and work on bringing back the old form.

Man, I never had any of that when I played soccer.  Except that one time in college (it was a club game, I'm not that good).......

Anyway, glad to hear the knee isn't hurting so much.  I would definitely keep watching it, so to speak, and watch your mileage increases.

Sorry to the group if I went on a ramble there.   

I'm thinking of skipping my regular Wednesday run in favor of swimming (or doing nothing) and waiting until Saturday or Sunday to get back on it.

The soccer game was kind of like golf.  Neither team is good enough to "deserve" to throw their clubs after a missed shot.  It was just a first place match and tensions were high, play was rough and their fans were unruly.  I think the chair incident was sparked by one of their non-players who was sitting on the bench.  For the most part, the players all recognized the game for what it was, a bit dirty, rough and tumble soccer, which is to be expected when you're playing for the winner's t-shirt.

dblack - when I was in the Marines, we called that rugby. Ok, I lie, we modified the rules a bit (eliminated them was more like it), and called it "killer soccer". Not one game went by where someone did not have to go to sick-bay. Ahh.... the good ole days....
Not doing the Wednesday run may be good to help heal the knee. But do something - don't skip the day entirely.

Scout - you were rambling? When?

fgray - I agree with the shoes - DOUG!! get new SHOES

When am I not?

Oh, in the Army, we would just call that "combat soccer".  We had "combat volleyball", too, which consisted of kicking people on the other side of the net, and aiming for heads. 

Hmmm... I never noticed. Perhaps its because I do enough of it myself.

BTW - 29F and a chance of snow. Shorts all the way baby.

Ok, newbie question (even though I've been on-site since August).  What do the little colors mean in the calendar.  Yellow, pink, green (I think that means an upcoming event), red, etc.?  Is there a key somewhere?

The salmon color (pink) means that you did a tri related exercise (swim, bike, run). The red color indicates that you exercised (strength, or other). There is a priority for the colors. Yellow is the lowest (not exercise),purple (no exercise, but entered health related information - weight, sleep, etc), red (exercised, but not tri related), pink (tri related exercise), and then green (race). I have not figured out what the red outline means. I think it has to do with recording neutrient.

There is a key somewhere, buried online. I cam across it once, but have never been able to find it again.

Okay, I lied. Sue me.

I found the article talking about the color codes on the mini-calendar. Here is the link

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=434 

Kirk, you're so smart.  You're, like, my hero, or something.

How are those gloves working out for ya? 

Ahhhh..... cut it out..... your embarassing me. Besides you said you wouldn't say anything in front of the kids.....

BTW - gloves worked great last night. Actually had them on then put the fleece mits on over them. It was a bit too warm at times (tail wind), but good. I swear - keep your head and hands warm and the rest of your body will fall in line. Just keep moving.

*snerk*  Yeah, it was for the holidays.  He has a tattoo on each cheek, too.  One is crossed sabers, and the other is E-7 rank from the Army.

Kirk, yeah, I agree with the head and hands things completely.  Sometimes toes, too, but that's more when they're wet.  That's why I got Gore-Tex lined shoes.