David Gillen's Group - FULL (Page 5)

That's great, Ken.  I think it's great that you're using this race as a practice for your higher priority sprint in June.  I don't think the open water will be as big of an issue as you think.  You'll do great, and I bet you'll place really well in the results. 

Yes, I did the OLY there last year, and it was a great course.  Again, don't stress about the swim too much.  400m will be over before you know it especially with a wetsuit.  It'll probably take you longer to put the dang thing on and off than to swim the course!

The whole bike course is about 6 miles, and there are not any "significant" hills, but there are a lot of turns.  Overall, I'd actually call this a pretty fast bike course, and definitely a fun one.  Since you're only doing 6 miles, you'll absolutely be hammering the whole time and will probably be passing people right and left, giving a nice mental boost.   Going south on the Congress there is slight downhill and everyone is absolutely flying.  This part of the race was one of the funnest times I've ever had on a bike.  You're going to love it.

If you're getting down there early, you might even try biking the course on Sat or Sun morning early so that traffic is at a minimum.  Also, it's a great spectator course too if you're going to have family or friends watching!

Man, I'm excited for you.  You're going to kill the course.  I can feel it!

Ken, you'll do fine.  As you know, wetsuit's make you really buoyant.  I swam in the ocean last weekend when I was visiting my sister in San Diego, and I just barely had to tread water to stay afloat.  Salt water + wetsuit = Extremely buoyant.  It was great minus getting tangled up in kelp a few times!  

Hey, I live about 5 minutes from Lake Grapevine.  So if you want, I could come out and swim with you and your friend this week.   Again, I'm not a swim coach, but I did put in my fair share of miles in Grapevine last year getting reading from my IM.  Just let me know when and where.  If you'd rather just go with your friend, no problem.  I'm easy.

phoenixrising404 - 2007-05-19 11:33 AM I found a good article on bike fit: http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/techctr/bikefit.html David, I just did the one hour run lactate threshold deal, and this is what I discovered (no one is allowed to laugh!): my lactate threshold is 185, my everyday walking around HR is actually rather high at 84, don't know what my just getting up out of bed HR is, but will find out tomorrow a.m., I can sustain 190 for a mile or so but don't feel good at that rate at all, and my VO2 max is 199, which I can sustain for only about a minute or so. I did it pretty much the way they said to with a warm up and cool down. The 5K part in the middle took a whole 37 minutes and I did 5 miles in 64:50. (pitiful, pitiful, pitiful!!!) ONCE I did .2 miles at 8 mph and actually tasted blood, as my lungs just hated that!!!! (but that wasn't today). I actually look rather like Bride of Frankenstein after a run, as my face is all beet red, my temple veins stick out, my hair is pasted to my sweaty head and I STINK! NOT a pretty sight.........I'll have to take up drinking in order to actually run in public So, can you help me figure out that one chart with the F1, F2, all the way to F5???? Thanks!!

Pene,  Awesome. I'm proud of you for doing a LTHR field test.  They are really tough and not very fun.  So good job.  I'm glad you're taking heart rate training seriously.  

However, I'm a little concerned that you might have run too far for your test.  Most of the references I've found, including the links I provided, call for a 30 minute field test, not a 60 minute one.  However, I just found that Ken Mierke (in "The Triathlete's Guide to Run Training" book) calls for a 60 minute test where you take the average HR over the last 30 minutes as your LTHR.   If you were to do a 30 minute test where you average over the last 20 minutes, then your LTHR might be a little higher than the one found today.  However, 185 seems pretty high already, and it's better to err on the lower side anyway.  So, let's stick with 185 for now.  We can re-test in 6-8 weeks if needed.

You've done the hard part, now the fun: You get to find out what "intensity" you should be training at.  That is, what heart rate should you be trying to maintain for most of your runs.  Just follow these instructions on BT.   All you have to do is type in your LTHR and it computes your zones for you.  Then memorize the Zone 2 because that's the range you'll want to keep your HR in for most of your runs. 

BTW, don't worry about your pace during the test, or ever really.  Speed will come in time.  Let's build that cake first!

Dave,

The other day I ran a 5K race where my avg hr was 187 (max 200).  The race took me 22:30, could I use this a my LT or should I do the test you suggested? 

Yes, you will be running slow, sometimes painfully slow. Many people don't like running this slow, but it is very important to stay in this range to "build your aerobic engine"; build your base. What does this mean? Please carefully read this excellent article by Strauss. I can't put it any better.

If you're not a speed reader like Pene, the whole idea can be summed up with this quote: "Without a strong foundation, you do not have all of the basic training adaptations (see What happens to your body above) to take full advantage of this hard stuff. It's the difference between driving a Porsche and a VW bug. Both will go 85, but one is working a lot less than the other. Remember, build the engine first, THEN make it fast."

I'm not quite sure I follow what your saying here. Are you trying to say that you think you run out of glycogen after about 55 minutes (meaning you bonk!) and then you have to slow down and start burning fat. This could very well be, but is definitely not a good way to train. You never want to bonk (i.e., run out of carbs/glycogen) on purpose!

The goal should be to workout aerobically (in Z2) thereby burning about an equal percentage of carbs and fat. And if you can take in 250-400 calories of carbs per hour, then ideally you won't run out of energy!  

If your A race (highest priority) this year was a sprint tri or a half marathon or any event taking about 2 hrs or less to complete, then you could do Z3 and Z4 (i.e, faster and harder stuff). But if you want to feel decent at the end of your century and marathon, then you should start teaching your body to burn fat more efficiently. And you can only do that thru Z1 and Z2 training.

Everyone's body can only store roughly 2000 calories of carbs (i.e, glycogen/sugar), good enough for about 2 hrs of exercise depending on the intensity. But even the skinniest Kenyans have plenty of body fat to last for many, many hours of exercise. By training fast and hard all the time, you're teaching your body to get really good at burning carbs for energy, not fat. Again, this is all well and good if your event is under 2 hrs, but if it's not you should try to get better at burning fat as a fuel source!

Understand?

but I trust you because it seems you started from about nothing like me and now you are a superman

Thanks for the nice words, but I'm be no means a superman. I did my first marathon back in 98, and I didn't start learning any of this stuff until a couple of years ago when I started doing tris. Wish I would have started earlier...

An average HR for a 5K will generally by higher than your LTHR, so I might use something like 183 - 185 for your LTHR.   So, you don't have to do a test yet, maybe in 6-8 weeks. 

Also, you have a 305, right?  Then you can also use your real time running pace (instead of or in addition to) your HR to measure intensity.  Take a look the this table , and be sure the read the descriptions links at the top of the page to find out what a Pace Zone is.  It's very similar to a HR zone, but using pace instead.   This table let's you set your pace zones given your 5 or 10K race time.  On this table, Zone 2 would correspond roughly to PZI 3 (or Moderate Aerobic) or in your case (using 22:30 5K time) a pace between 9:43-8:47 mins/mile.

Let me know if you have questions about this.