Gordo Byrn's Group - FULL (Page 50)
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() BBDope - 2009-08-10 12:02 PM Hey guys, I had a pretty good race yesterday. I got over a huge hurdle in that I was able to freestyle the entire swim protion comfortably. I actually drafted for a bit. I had very good transitions. I broke the 20 mph avg on the bike. Finished top 1/4 overall and top 1/3 AG. Thanks for all the help so far this season. I know I still need more consistency, volume, and experience, but I am starting to piece it together. I am also starting to enjoy racing. It used to be that I loved training and hated redlining during races. That is starting to change. Again, thanks for the knowledge and support. Brian Well done Brian!!! |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() G, I've been following your other mentoring group and you said the following on one of your responses: "In older populations I do like the shorter races (if they are tolerated) as that helps hold threshold and LT performance on the bike. Depends on the athletic age of the athlete." I think I qualify as member of the "older population", although I don't feel like it ![]() A month from now I'm doing a local sprint and my thoughts were to do the bike (13 miles) and run (5K) in my threshold zone. I figure what the heck, it's a short race, my key training endurance sessions are done in my steady zone with an occasional venture into Mod-Hard (outside of an occasional TT). Looks like given my age that might be the thing to do? Edited by junthank 2009-08-14 10:37 AM |
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Regular ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Hi G-Team, hope you are all well and racing successfully. Thought I would tell you about my race Sunday. I did the Cambridge olympic distance race which was my first Oly and a great route as very flat. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Pashda - 2009-08-18 3:59 AM Hi G-Team, hope you are all well and racing successfully. Thought I would tell you about my race Sunday. I did the Cambridge olympic distance race which was my first Oly and a great route as very flat. Congra's on overachieving your goals. Jeff |
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![]() | ![]() Congrats Dave. Great race. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() junthank - 2009-08-14 9:29 AM G, I've been following your other mentoring group and you said the following on one of your responses: "In older populations I do like the shorter races (if they are tolerated) as that helps hold threshold and LT performance on the bike. Depends on the athletic age of the athlete." I think I qualify as member of the "older population", although I don't feel like it ![]() A month from now I'm doing a local sprint and my thoughts were to do the bike (13 miles) and run (5K) in my threshold zone. I figure what the heck, it's a short race, my key training endurance sessions are done in my steady zone with an occasional venture into Mod-Hard (outside of an occasional TT). Looks like given my age that might be the thing to do? How many years have you been training? Older means athletic age in that context. The athletes tend to have athletic ages well over 20 years of consistent endurance training. In those populations, I want to maintain their top end aerobic profiles as they age. The folks that tolerate the higher end stuff typically have extremely well trained lower end aerobic profiles (all sports). As well, they tend to be the smaller build athletes -- with a larger build athlete one needs to be extremely careful with running intensity. g |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() GordoByrn - 2009-08-18 12:40 PM junthank - 2009-08-14 9:29 AM G, I've been following your other mentoring group and you said the following on one of your responses: "In older populations I do like the shorter races (if they are tolerated) as that helps hold threshold and LT performance on the bike. Depends on the athletic age of the athlete." I think I qualify as member of the "older population", although I don't feel like it ![]() A month from now I'm doing a local sprint and my thoughts were to do the bike (13 miles) and run (5K) in my threshold zone. I figure what the heck, it's a short race, my key training endurance sessions are done in my steady zone with an occasional venture into Mod-Hard (outside of an occasional TT). Looks like given my age that might be the thing to do? How many years have you been training? Older means athletic age in that context. The athletes tend to have athletic ages well over 20 years of consistent endurance training. In those populations, I want to maintain their top end aerobic profiles as they age. The folks that tolerate the higher end stuff typically have extremely well trained lower end aerobic profiles (all sports). As well, they tend to be the smaller build athletes -- with a larger build athlete one needs to be extremely careful with running intensity. g Oops... You did say "athletic age"... I skipped over the word athletic in the sentence. Looks like I'm on the oppsite end of the spectrum.... training for 10 months... larger build... not a well trained aerobic profile. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I probably should have re-emphasized in that post -- two main ages that I use... chronological and athletic. Athletic -- I also consider between sports -- running requires long term connective tissue changes and swimming requires long term specific strength development. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Gordo, a few months ago you gave me advice about B/L breathing and relaxing in the water... i had trouble swimming 50 meters without having my breathing fall apart. Well yesterday i swam 3000m nonstop with B/L breathing! thanks for the help! Boom |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Boom808 - 2009-08-19 1:31 PMGordo, Hey Boom,That's great to read. A big progression that will have greatly helped your swimming economy.ga few months ago you gave me advice about B/L breathing and relaxing in the water... i had trouble swimming 50 meters without having my breathing fall apart. Well yesterday i swam 3000m nonstop with B/L breathing! thanks for the help! Boom |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() G, 3 Stroke Breathing - 1st, without it I would have never learned how to relaxed in the water. It was instrumental in helping me "go longer" in the water. I use it during my workouts. Obviously when I do an interval in my MOD-HARD Zone I go to 2 Stroke Breathing.I have also found that as I have started to develop different speeds in the water I can feel pretty comfortable and relaxed with 2 Stroke Breathing going EASY and STEADY. In fact, on many of my longer swims (2400-3000 meters) I'll start out wih 3 stroke and go to 2 stroke as I get more fatigued. Am I slowing my development in the water by doing this? Hope all is going well in training for your upcoming races. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() junthank - 2009-08-24 7:51 PMG, What you may find is that you are under estimating the intensity of the shift -- think running, when we have a "two stroke" breath rate we are well above mod-hard. Also, see how long you can hold that two-stroke effort without fading -- odds are, you are over threshold. I can swim far over threshold using three-stroke breathing rate. Threshold being defined as my best average pace for an hour long TT.What's optimal? You will get a clear idea by tracking consistency. Remove things that impair consistency and keep your training enjoyable. If you do that they you will improve -- this matters FAR more than all the debates over protocol.g3 Stroke Breathing - 1st, without it I would have never learned how to relaxed in the water. It was instrumental in helping me "go longer" in the water. I use it during my workouts. Obviously when I do an interval in my MOD-HARD Zone I go to 2 Stroke Breathing.I have also found that as I have started to develop different speeds in the water I can feel pretty comfortable and relaxed with 2 Stroke Breathing going EASY and STEADY. In fact, on many of my longer swims (2400-3000 meters) I'll start out wih 3 stroke and go to 2 stroke as I get more fatigued. Am I slowing my development in the water by doing this? Hope all is going well in training for your upcoming races. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() GordoByrn - 2009-08-27 2:07 PM junthank - 2009-08-24 7:51 PMG, What you may find is that you are under estimating the intensity of the shift -- think running, when we have a "two stroke" breath rate we are well above mod-hard. Also, see how long you can hold that two-stroke effort without fading -- odds are, you are over threshold. I can swim far over threshold using three-stroke breathing rate. Threshold being defined as my best average pace for an hour long TT.What's optimal? You will get a clear idea by tracking consistency. Remove things that impair consistency and keep your training enjoyable. If you do that they you will improve -- this matters FAR more than all the debates over protocol.g. I'm sure your right on the intensity shift estimating. Just like on the bike and run it's easy for me to under estimate the intensity I'm working. I'm getting better at it but it still a work in progress. I can say without a doubt that my swim is much, much more enjoyable now than when I started training. I actually look forward to my swims rather than dreading the days when a swim workout is on the schedule. In fact, I believe now that swim endurance is no longer by biggest limiter - it's been replaced by run endurance/pace. I guess if I honestly look at 3 stroke vs. 2 stroke breathing for me I'm biased toward 2 stroke simply because I'm more comfortable breathing on my right side. I just feel more balanced in the water when I take a breathe on the right side. You have detailed in your book and on the forum the various benefits of 3 stroke breathing outside of just learning how to relax. I just need to suck it up and get better at it. Edited by junthank 2009-08-30 4:43 PM |
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![]() | ![]() Gordo, it was great to read your race report. Jeff, you continue to crank it out everyday. You are going to do great in your race next week. Good Luck. BB |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() BBDope - 2009-09-03 4:53 PM Gordo, it was great to read your race report. Jeff, you continue to crank it out everyday. You are going to do great in your race next week. Good Luck. BB Thanks for the gool luck wishes Brian and congra's on passing your medical boards. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() G, Edited by junthank 2009-09-06 11:32 AM |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() With hydration -- easy to check... weigh yourself before/after, for each pound you lose, you'll need to gradually rehydrate with 1.25 pints of water -- I also use fruit salad as a source of recovery food as it has a fair amount of fluid.g |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() G, Hope your race went well. I was wondering if you have any recommendations with regard to a little knee pain. They are not bothering me a lot but it is something that I'm noticing. Perhaps I'm wrong but I believe that it is most likely related to going longer on my long run days (up to 90 minutes on my long run days). They will be a little sore for a day or so after my long run and then OK. Perhaps this is just fatigue? Does soreness accompany fatigue? It's not something that has caused me to miss the next day of training. Anyway, I guess I could simply reduce the duration of my long run. However, I thought about how you completely eleviated my calf problems by doing calf raises. Is there a similar exercise that I should be doing for the knees? Edited by junthank 2009-09-12 8:08 PM |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() There is an eccentric exercises that you can do (p 288, Going Long 2nd edition) - on the side that is hurting - stand on a slightly downward sloping ramp and do half knee bends.Ice, as well as, the half bends will help (and certainly won't hurt). Pictures in the book but this one is simple to convey so hopefully my explanation worked.Race went well, thanks.g |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() GordoByrn - 2009-09-14 10:10 AM There is an eccentric exercises that you can do (p 288, Going Long 2nd edition) - on the side that is hurting - stand on a slightly downward sloping ramp and do half knee bends.Ice, as well as, the half bends will help (and certainly won't hurt). Pictures in the book but this one is simple to convey so hopefully my explanation worked.Race went well, thanks.g Got it, reviewed it, will implement it. Don't know why I didn't think to look there before asking on the forum. Duh.... BTW.... your recent blog "The Long View" - is there any significants to the fact that there is a bear in the background picture rather than a bull..... Being that your a financial guy? Edited by junthank 2009-09-15 11:33 AM |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() . BTW.... your recent blog "The Long View" - is there any significants to the fact that there is a bear in the background picture rather than a bull..... Being that your a financial guy? Nothing special in that photo -- pretty cute bear. With the markets, my personal decision is to wait and see. I have zero direct exposure but our camps business provides indirect market exposure by way of vacation spending. We are a way down the chain but camps, coaching and adventure travel are luxury spending items. g |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() G, Saw that you did 26K+ swim meters in a week (not including Saturday or Sunday). Those are huge numbers. Would that be considered a "typical" swim week for an elite triathlete? Edited by junthank 2009-09-19 1:20 PM |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() junthank - 2009-09-19 12:20 PMG, Actually... it was a little over 30,000 meters in six days and every day had some quality. The reason I did the camp is that I don't have the time in my life to train like an elite any more -- as well, I don't think my feet would be happy with another decade of elite-level run volume. So... I tend to do-what-I-can-when-I-can. I started the camp the day after a Half Ironman race because I know that I'd probably have to rest my legs. Also, from Tuesday to Thursday, I was away on a Couples Trip (Monica and I go away once a month. Our deal on those trips is that we do all our training together. The only think we do separate is my work -- I need to stay online for clients, couple hours per day. So more than you asked...In terms of what typical -- it is variable as guys like Bjorn don't like to swim and might not even do 10K per week. However, he's the extreme low end and did a lot as a kid. If you take athletes like Joanna Z or my wife (when she was leading out in Kona)... they are likely 20-26K (meters) every single week with nearly all of it high quality and a good chunk of it at high speed. The larger men can't rip as much, or as often, but my IM pals are almost always 20K+ every week. If you can roll 30K per week then most people will become decent eventually -- I have seen it take up to a decade, though. Most of the hard cases quit before they breakthrough -- track Bella Bayliss' results over the last ten years -- she was Comerford before she married Stephen. You can see a real case study in the power of sticking with it. She's done a TON of swimming to achieve her results -- more than me.When I was racing, I needed to get up around 25K to increase swim fitness. 20K per week would easily keep me where I was at. Below 15K I would lose swim fitness. That's not surprising as ~4 hours of a sport per week is not much training at all -- tiny in a single sport sense.More than in-water speed -- one of the things that we get from swim volume is forgiving, non-impact aerobic training. Well trained swimmers can do a lot of work in the water without getting beaten up. When you are swim fit, then entire day becomes much easier. In fact, when you look at most AG races -- all distances, then you often see an opportunity to improve bike/run performance by making sure that they aren't wrecked when they come out of the water.Most the top AG athletes that I coach (all distances) swim lots. There is one exception (former 2:25 marathoner, Clearwater Champ, Kona qualifier) that doesn't swim much due to time constraints but he does VERY solid swims twice a week (the EC plan that you can see in our Swim Library).We tried to figure out Monica's lifetime meters... has to be over 20 million, she was doing 100,000 yards a week in high school. I know that she swam over 900,000 meters during her pregnancy. As for me... I'm far over 5 million meters for the last decade. Something I found was that once I was under 60 minutes for my IM swim, I had to swim one million meters per minute improvement. Not everyone is able to set their lives up to achieve that.g+++see if format fixes with an edit...Saw that you did 26K+ swim meters in a week (not including Saturday or Sunday). Those are huge numbers. Would that be considered a "typical" swim week for an elite triathlete? Edited by GordoByrn 2009-09-19 3:54 PM |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Sorry about the format -- Safari 4 doesn't seem to be meshing. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Hi Guys,Off line for two weeks starting tomorrow. Take care,g |
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