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![]() | ![]() This morning I was approaching another bike. As I passed him, he looked like a pretty serious cyclist, so I was surprised he was just noodling along. After I went by he jumped onto my back wheel and drafted me for a few miles. We then headed up a pretty steep hill, and I did my typical slow down. He pulled beside me, standing up and cranking a pretty bug gear, and flew by me like I was parked. So here's my question. I've heard it's not good to stand and hammer for tris since you want to save your legs. But watching the speed and time he gained on my on that one hill, I wonder if it's sometimes worth it to go that way. I admit I've never stood and hammered a hill; I always stay seated and spin a very low gear as much as possible. What does everyone think? Is it worth standing and getting some speed up the hill in a tri? Maybe only in a sprint? |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() wbayek - 2010-07-09 12:16 AM This morning I was approaching another bike. As I passed him, he looked like a pretty serious cyclist, so I was surprised he was just noodling along. After I went by he jumped onto my back wheel and drafted me for a few miles. We then headed up a pretty steep hill, and I did my typical slow down. He pulled beside me, standing up and cranking a pretty bug gear, and flew by me like I was parked. So here's my question. I've heard it's not good to stand and hammer for tris since you want to save your legs. But watching the speed and time he gained on my on that one hill, I wonder if it's sometimes worth it to go that way. I admit I've never stood and hammered a hill; I always stay seated and spin a very low gear as much as possible. What does everyone think? Is it worth standing and getting some speed up the hill in a tri? Maybe only in a sprint? Great timing on this question! I did a 46ish mile ride with a couple of buddies (one is a 2x Ironman) a few weeks ago and I stay seated the whole time because I was aero most of the time and want to get use to riding in that position. At around mile 30-35 my legs started cramping in a BIG way. I tried to stand but the legs cramped. I had to stay in the position I was and after a while the cramping went away, but tlegs were still sore etc. Last weekend I went for another ride with some other buddies (one guy is a 2x Kona finisher!) and when he got about 3/4 up the hill he would stand and I would still be sitting. I knew he didn't need to stand so I asked him why he stood up at the end. He said because it "flushes the lactic acid" from his legs so they don't cramp. Wholly crap!! No wonder I was CRAMPING!!! So for now on I am going to mix in the standing up and not stay seated. At least for me I am hoping it prevents that painful cramping I had that one day. |
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![]() | ![]() So I did a rather hilly 2 hour ride today and stood for the end of most of the steep climbs. There's no doubt the climbing went faster. I'm not sure how it affected my legs for the run afterward, but I didn't feel like they were more beat than normal. I'm going to keep trying some standing. You have to remember to leave it in a higher gear than normal since as soon as you stand you need more gear. On another note - I'm a total dunderhead. I have used a Polar bike computer for the past few years, and I've noticed on some rides the ave. mph it calculates for my rides don't always make sense. Like today, I went 35.1 miles in 2:07, which calculates to 16.6 mph. But the polar said 17.5 average. Hmmm. I finally checked the entire speed curve and noticed the 2:07 is the total time from start to finish, but the average speed only includes time actually moving. I spent about 5-6 minutes at lights (I did hit red on all three lights I passed), so when you count only time I was actually moving, it averaged 17.5. I honestly had no idea the computer calculated that, and now I see there is a setting to stop the time while I'm stopped. Do you guys count your "stopped" time while riding? It's not a big deal, but I'm just wondering. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() wbayek - 2010-07-09 11:40 PM So I did a rather hilly 2 hour ride today and stood for the end of most of the steep climbs. There's no doubt the climbing went faster. I'm not sure how it affected my legs for the run afterward, but I didn't feel like they were more beat than normal. I'm going to keep trying some standing. You have to remember to leave it in a higher gear than normal since as soon as you stand you need more gear. On another note - I'm a total dunderhead. I have used a Polar bike computer for the past few years, and I've noticed on some rides the ave. mph it calculates for my rides don't always make sense. Like today, I went 35.1 miles in 2:07, which calculates to 16.6 mph. But the polar said 17.5 average. Hmmm. I finally checked the entire speed curve and noticed the 2:07 is the total time from start to finish, but the average speed only includes time actually moving. I spent about 5-6 minutes at lights (I did hit red on all three lights I passed), so when you count only time I was actually moving, it averaged 17.5. I honestly had no idea the computer calculated that, and now I see there is a setting to stop the time while I'm stopped. Do you guys count your "stopped" time while riding? It's not a big deal, but I'm just wondering. A while ago, I asked a friend of mine who is a very serious cyclist about just this - he said when you are first starting out riding, you should stay seated and spin in order to build up the muscles and the balance skills needed....once you are much more comfortable on the bike - then you can get up out of the seat. That being said - the flushing of the lactic acid makes a lot of sense to me too! Do I count my stopped time? There is one traffic light on my long bike route...so I don't think it is fair for me to count my stopped time for biking (on the other hand...I would like to *not* count my slow, slow climbs up hills as part of my average speed). I do (however) stop my timer when running if I stop to stretch, torment the dog, blow my nose, etc. Wanted to let you all know that all of our spouses are sounding alike. I was waffling about doing a bike ride this evening and told my husband I was thinking about blowing it off and just doing a longer ride tomorrow. He said, " Don't you have a race in two weeks? This is not the time to be taking it easy...get down there (it's raining, so I had to ride on the trainer in the basement) and HTFU!" I almost spit out my water! Have a great weekend all. Warren - your riding sounds like it is really coming along...hope you are enjoying it. Biking is my favorite sport. Thinking about Aaron and hoping he is having a great weekend - we got hammered with a thunderstorm....with any luck, the Black Fly tri was missed by the weather. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() My husband just pointed out a way to figure out the distance of OWS (you all might have already thought of this - but it was new to me)...Google Earth. Google has taken satellite pictures of everywhere...find the location of your local pond/lake/river. You can zoom in enough to find the things that you are using to sight on. There is an option that allows you to click a starting point and an ending point and it will calculate the distance between the two points automatically. While there is no way I am swimming an absolutely straight line from the dock to the island in the middle of our local pond - I have a pretty good estimate of the distance. Very cool! |
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![]() | ![]() itsallrelative_Maine - 2010-07-12 10:56 AM My husband just pointed out a way to figure out the distance of OWS (you all might have already thought of this - but it was new to me)...Google Earth. Google has taken satellite pictures of everywhere...find the location of your local pond/lake/river. You can zoom in enough to find the things that you are using to sight on. There is an option that allows you to click a starting point and an ending point and it will calculate the distance between the two points automatically. While there is no way I am swimming an absolutely straight line from the dock to the island in the middle of our local pond - I have a pretty good estimate of the distance. Very cool! I also kayak with my Garmin to check the distances against the google earth numbers. The google earth maps of the lake aren't very granular, but the distances pretty much agree with the GPS distances. It looks like Aaron did pretty well at the Black Fly. I really wanted to get over there and see him in person, but it wasn't to be this weekend. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I do a lot of standing when climbing hills especially when nearing the top. This may be a little outdated, but Dave Scott says in his Triathlon Traininng Book in 1986 " For most triathletes, it's easier to get up the hills if you 'get out of the saddle' - stand up. You'll use your energy more efficiently that way, and avoid overloading your quadriceps. I have seen many triathletes grinding it out over the hills like many road racers do - sitting down. However, some of the world's finest cyclists, including Greg LeMond, tend to stand more than they sit.........." Later on he says "For gradual climbs, slide back in your saddle and grip the handlebars close to the stem if you are going to remain seated. However, it is usually better for triathletes to stand up." There may be better info out there now, but this is the first tri book I read, and Dave Scott was who I looked up to as a kid, so........ |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() on sitting vs. standing...I've read 'expert' opinions both ways so my rule of thumb is when experts disagree, I feel free to do whatever I feel like on a given day / climb ;-) on stopping clocks...I had no idea that was a setting. I'll have to look it up if I can find my manual. I do whatever is the cateye default. On distance measuring...I use the BT route planner with the satellite imagery turned on. If I zoom in close enough, I can see the buoys and such for swimming. |
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![]() | ![]() Thanks for the advice guys. I love hearing how the roots guys did it Ray, seems like they had a better approach in a lot of ways in terms of enjoying the journey. Well, a little bragging for me today. I used to ride a loop I call the cemetery loop a lot, and prior to this year 51:22 was my PR. It's 14.3 miles and has some nice hills. Over the winter I set a goal of 45:00, which I thought was nuts. I did it 2 months ago in 49:15, but I haven't ridden the route since then due to construction, which was finally done this week. Tuesday is bike TT day, so I did the route this morning hammering the hills standing whenever I could. I nailed it in 43:51! Massive PR. I really think the standing had a lot to do with it. On the steep hills, I kept the speed up through the whole climb and then was able to get back to speed a LOT faster on the other side. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() That's great news Warren! I noticed that goal had been crossed off when looking at your logs - but thought I must have missed the specific...woot! All that hard work is paying off! |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Awesome job, Warren! |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I think I finally found a place do so some open water swimming. It's about an hour away but there's a group of guys on BT.com that meet up once every few weeks for a Saturday morning swim. I'm looking forward to getting in some non-wetsuit practice. Aaron... great job on your races this past weekend. Strong work! |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() wbayek - 2010-07-12 6:54 PM Tuesday is bike TT day, so I did the route this morning hammering the hills standing whenever I could. I nailed it in 43:51! Massive PR. I really think the standing had a lot to do with it. On the steep hills, I kept the speed up through the whole climb and then was able to get back to speed a LOT faster on the other side. You biking animal! What have we created!? ;-) |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Bill - that's great about the OWS...you know that I am not a big fan of the swim - but being able to swim outside as the sun comes up is pretty darn nice. At this point, I'm going to try really hard to not swim in the pool again until the water is just too cold (probably by the end of Sept here). Enjoy it! Again Warren - fantastic! All that training is really showing through. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() wbayek - 2010-07-06 3:24 PM Question for the group after reading Ray's post. If I have no pains riding or running and feel great riding even on the 3 hour rides. Should I still get a fit? I went a long time ago for a cheapie LBS fit, but I've gotten a new seat and new aerobars since then. Given the lack of issues, and that getting a real fit at a place like Fitwerks would double the value of my bike, so I've not felt compelled to get a fit. My plan was to wait until I get a "real" bike and make sure I get everything squared away then. Am I being stupid? Save the money. Dont fix what is not broke. Bike fitting is often over-complicated to justify a $200+ adjustment. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() wbayek - 2010-07-09 11:30 AM Good luck at the Black Fly Aaron. I am totally bummed since I was planning to meet you this weekend at the International race. We're going to a family thing instead, and wife is working Sunday so I won't be able to get over there on Sunday to catch the sprint. Well, I will definitely get over to see the beginning of the Timberman half, so I'll see you there. That's my last day of vacation so I probably won't stay for the whole event, but I'm looking forward to cheering you out of the water and through T1! Stay cool and have a great weekend everyone. I should be volunteering the day before at the sprint. So hopefully we get to meet up. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() wbayek - 2010-07-10 11:40 AM So I did a rather hilly 2 hour ride today and stood for the end of most of the steep climbs. There's no doubt the climbing went faster. I'm not sure how it affected my legs for the run afterward, but I didn't feel like they were more beat than normal. I'm going to keep trying some standing. You have to remember to leave it in a higher gear than normal since as soon as you stand you need more gear. On another note - I'm a total dunderhead. I have used a Polar bike computer for the past few years, and I've noticed on some rides the ave. mph it calculates for my rides don't always make sense. Like today, I went 35.1 miles in 2:07, which calculates to 16.6 mph. But the polar said 17.5 average. Hmmm. I finally checked the entire speed curve and noticed the 2:07 is the total time from start to finish, but the average speed only includes time actually moving. I spent about 5-6 minutes at lights (I did hit red on all three lights I passed), so when you count only time I was actually moving, it averaged 17.5. I honestly had no idea the computer calculated that, and now I see there is a setting to stop the time while I'm stopped. Do you guys count your "stopped" time while riding? It's not a big deal, but I'm just wondering. I do not. However for swimming I do. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() itsallrelative_Maine - 2010-07-10 8:33 PM wbayek - 2010-07-09 11:40 PM So I did a rather hilly 2 hour ride today and stood for the end of most of the steep climbs. There's no doubt the climbing went faster. I'm not sure how it affected my legs for the run afterward, but I didn't feel like they were more beat than normal. I'm going to keep trying some standing. You have to remember to leave it in a higher gear than normal since as soon as you stand you need more gear. On another note - I'm a total dunderhead. I have used a Polar bike computer for the past few years, and I've noticed on some rides the ave. mph it calculates for my rides don't always make sense. Like today, I went 35.1 miles in 2:07, which calculates to 16.6 mph. But the polar said 17.5 average. Hmmm. I finally checked the entire speed curve and noticed the 2:07 is the total time from start to finish, but the average speed only includes time actually moving. I spent about 5-6 minutes at lights (I did hit red on all three lights I passed), so when you count only time I was actually moving, it averaged 17.5. I honestly had no idea the computer calculated that, and now I see there is a setting to stop the time while I'm stopped. Do you guys count your "stopped" time while riding? It's not a big deal, but I'm just wondering. A while ago, I asked a friend of mine who is a very serious cyclist about just this - he said when you are first starting out riding, you should stay seated and spin in order to build up the muscles and the balance skills needed....once you are much more comfortable on the bike - then you can get up out of the seat. That being said - the flushing of the lactic acid makes a lot of sense to me too! Do I count my stopped time? There is one traffic light on my long bike route...so I don't think it is fair for me to count my stopped time for biking (on the other hand...I would like to *not* count my slow, slow climbs up hills as part of my average speed). I do (however) stop my timer when running if I stop to stretch, torment the dog, blow my nose, etc. Wanted to let you all know that all of our spouses are sounding alike. I was waffling about doing a bike ride this evening and told my husband I was thinking about blowing it off and just doing a longer ride tomorrow. He said, " Don't you have a race in two weeks? This is not the time to be taking it easy...get down there (it's raining, so I had to ride on the trainer in the basement) and HTFU!" I almost spit out my water! Have a great weekend all. Warren - your riding sounds like it is really coming along...hope you are enjoying it. Biking is my favorite sport. Thinking about Aaron and hoping he is having a great weekend - we got hammered with a thunderstorm....with any luck, the Black Fly tri was missed by the weather. Awesome weekend, but it poured the entire time on the race saturday. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() wbayek - 2010-07-09 3:16 PM This morning I was approaching another bike. As I passed him, he looked like a pretty serious cyclist, so I was surprised he was just noodling along. After I went by he jumped onto my back wheel and drafted me for a few miles. We then headed up a pretty steep hill, and I did my typical slow down. He pulled beside me, standing up and cranking a pretty bug gear, and flew by me like I was parked. So here's my question. I've heard it's not good to stand and hammer for tris since you want to save your legs. But watching the speed and time he gained on my on that one hill, I wonder if it's sometimes worth it to go that way. I admit I've never stood and hammered a hill; I always stay seated and spin a very low gear as much as possible. What does everyone think? Is it worth standing and getting some speed up the hill in a tri? Maybe only in a sprint? You can certainly stand, I often need to on a few hills here just to maintain forward momentum. The reason for not doing so for fun is three fold. 1st) Riding aero at the same speed requires less power than sitting, while sitting requires less than standing simply due to wind resistance. 2nd) Standing wastes more energy as you sway side to side, instead of remaining straight. Especially as you pull with your arms, your arms, shoulder, neck require the use of stored energy. 3rd) Easier to spike power numbers real high, and kill your legs on longer rides. This only matters when you need to run.
I have never heard of flushing lactic acid out, but it does not make sense to me. If anything it could help build up more. Lactic acid is created during hard work, standing might help eliminate cramps simply by getting you into a different position and allowing you to stretch out some. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() wbayek - 2010-07-13 9:54 AM Thanks for the advice guys. I love hearing how the roots guys did it Ray, seems like they had a better approach in a lot of ways in terms of enjoying the journey. Well, a little bragging for me today. I used to ride a loop I call the cemetery loop a lot, and prior to this year 51:22 was my PR. It's 14.3 miles and has some nice hills. Over the winter I set a goal of 45:00, which I thought was nuts. I did it 2 months ago in 49:15, but I haven't ridden the route since then due to construction, which was finally done this week. Tuesday is bike TT day, so I did the route this morning hammering the hills standing whenever I could. I nailed it in 43:51! Massive PR. I really think the standing had a lot to do with it. On the steep hills, I kept the speed up through the whole climb and then was able to get back to speed a LOT faster on the other side. Congrats. Huge new record. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() billsorg - 2010-07-14 4:21 PM I think I finally found a place do so some open water swimming. It's about an hour away but there's a group of guys on BT.com that meet up once every few weeks for a Saturday morning swim. I'm looking forward to getting in some non-wetsuit practice. Aaron... great job on your races this past weekend. Strong work! Should be fun especially in that group setting. Enjoy. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() The stage race from this weekend was a ton of fun. Got in some quality hiking with my daughter and girlfriend as well. Spent some good time relaxing. I am glad that you guys are keeping this going amongst yourselves. I am not even sure what I am busy with these days but I just rarely get to the computer for more than a few minutes. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Hello all - Next Saturday is the year anniversary of my first attempt at a tri. I DNF'ed (due to equipment failure on the bike), and while I am MUCH better trained (although - at the time, I thought I was pretty well trained) - I am still pretty nervous. It is a local, small sprint (the bike route goes right past our street), so I can wake up about an hour before the race and still make it. It will be filled with a lot of people that I know (about 65 participated last year), and a lot of friends will be at the finish line. The hard thing is now I am thinking about the possibility I may not finish it again and it's got me all worked up. How do you deal with pre-race jitters? Any advice on calming me down would be appreciated! |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Jennifer, (warning: possible "mars vs. venus" thing) I always try to only worry about the things I can control. Training for example, is within my control so I can do something about it. You certainly have put in the training and then some. Flats?...take a flat kit. Other than that...well, if you can't control it, don't worry about it. My wife has the ability to work herself into a dither over stuff that is totally outside the realm of controllable...I'm always at a loss there as well, so maybe it's just a guy thing. I'm sure you'll do great! |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() itsallrelative_Maine - 2010-07-18 9:14 AM Hello all - Next Saturday is the year anniversary of my first attempt at a tri. I DNF'ed (due to equipment failure on the bike), and while I am MUCH better trained (although - at the time, I thought I was pretty well trained) - I am still pretty nervous. It is a local, small sprint (the bike route goes right past our street), so I can wake up about an hour before the race and still make it. It will be filled with a lot of people that I know (about 65 participated last year), and a lot of friends will be at the finish line. The hard thing is now I am thinking about the possibility I may not finish it again and it's got me all worked up. How do you deal with pre-race jitters? Any advice on calming me down would be appreciated! Even though it is local, try to get ready like you would for any other race. Check your bike and gear the night before. Ride/run the course this week. Next month at Timberman, I may experience the same. Its where I crashed and wrecked my bike last night when the steering tube disintegrated. |
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