Got Your Mojo WORKIN'! group - CLOSED (Page 51)

JOHANNE -

I'm intrigued by what your chiro says it ligt of the ITB. I will think a bit about that and get back to your soon on it!

Yes, i have that book, but haven't spent much time with it. As for the technique, though, it was the first of the gravity-assisted approaches. It is in the same family as Chi Running and Evolution Running, and some people put Newton in there, too.

Pose has been around for quite a while now, and was getting a lot of interest by about '01. Romanov was considered quite controversial at the time, and some of the people who took his workshops find him rigid and overbearing. It also didn't help that his work was poorly translated and had more than a hint of academia to it.

And then along came Denny Dreyer with Chi in '04, and Dreyer was the polar opposite of Romanov --- a real mellow guy, handsome and suave and almost comforting in his teaching approach. His mien is one of the reasons Chi is so polpualr now.

The interesting thing about the Pose book is that it extends the teachings to cycling and swimming, and when I got the book a couple of years ago that was the stuff I spent time looking through. I can't remember if I actually did anything with those parts, however; I would guess not! But i had been doing forefoot running by about a year at that point, coming to it more from the Newton and Evolution camps.

I should dig it (Pose book) out and spend some quality time with it! Go through it yourself and see what you think. Making gravity work for you in running makes great sense, regardless of who the "preacher" is!

Good ride tonight.....but failed "entertainment" experience. I lasted all of 9 minutes with "The Disappearance of Alice Creed", as it was just too unpleasant. Nine minutes. Bah.

With each passing year I have less tolerance for unpleasant, to the point where I haven't watched a skin-crawling, jump-out-of-your-seat hooror movie in about 20 years. (Was "Carrie" the last one???)

So, I switched to hockey and labored for 1:45, which will be my longest ride until I get outside. I might do some others at that length, but that's pretty much the upper limit of what I can tolerate in my basement!

How many days until I can ride outside again????

ALEX again -

The phone number for CMM is 845-633-8720. It would be a great place to check out wetsuits, including the DeSoto two-piece that was mentioned about a week ago. Maybe go to www.desotosport.com and look at their sizing specs and see what size top and bottom you think you might need. Then call CMM and see if they have it! I think they are very responsive, so they might even be willing to order it in for you. Visiting them would also give you a chance to compare one-piece and two-piece. Just a thought!







Edited by stevebradley 2011-01-24 10:26 PM

ALEX once more -

Ha! Small world! I just googled Spring Dual Against CF, and it turns out it is run by Catskill Mountain Multisport -- that's what the cm2 in cm2promotions stands for. I'll bet you knew that all, and were just stringing me along!

It is USAT sanctioned, as is West point, as is one in Fayetteville the week after SDACF. Where's Fayetteville, anyhow? seems I should know that, but i don't. I know I know where Fayetteville, Arkansas is, but as for its namesake in NY? Gotta go get a NY map!

Syracuse-ish, perhaps?

I'm looking to do at least three USAT-sanctioned duathlons just so I can play the rankings game with duathlon as well as triathlon, which is where all this fervor comes from.

BRENDA -



ba-BUMP?


Get your waking heart rate this morning? Wasn't that fun?!



ba-BUMP!

Hey Gang! I've been out of the loop for a little bit (celebrating that big win by The Steelers!!!!)!

Looking forward to the SB this year....as I completely respect the Packers, but I still hope the Steel Curtain II shows up!

All is well in training land....just been pretty busy at work and odd jobs around the house. Spring is not far away and we are getting our house back on the market...AKA....Honey Do List is GRANDE!!!

BTW...my 4YO daughter just passed her first level of swim classes and is advancing up to the next level! I'm so excited for her...she has finally conquered her fear of the water.

Have a great week everyone and I'll check back in soon....back to the salt mines!
David

Predicted high temp Saturday is 63*; I feel a long ride coming....and yard work

I am going to look into the West Point du, but need to check my calendar.  I am trying to space events out enough so I don't feel overwhelmed my first season...
I am definitely going to check out the Catskill Mountain Multisport place.  It was on my list of places to check out for gear.  

Thanks!
Alex 

I am sooooo jealous!  I think our predicted high here is like 25* 

Thanks for the advice buddy. I will remember this.

Edited by LycraCladChamp 2011-01-25 12:07 PM

So yesterday during my swim I focused on head down and as* up.  I could not believe how much easier on the shoulders this posture change is.  I swam 800 and felt rather good after.  Not as in swimming more because I was too tired but as in my shoulders did not feel like I had lit coal on top of them.

To top it off I was able to shave about 10 sec off my 100yd times.  I don't know if it was the posture change or that I have been swimming for 3 weeks now.  The only thing I am having trouble with is breathing because I feel I am exaggerating my "downhill" position I feel like I have to move my head SSSOOOOOOO ch to get a breath in.  Any tips/help is much welcomed.

Daniel,
I was doing the same thing at swim this morning I noticed a difference too. I had to really think about it though and when my mind would wander, up went my head. I made all my intervals that my masters coach had set for me so I think there's something to all this position business!

As far as breathing, I tried to keep my head in the rotation and I seemed to be ok getting breaths. Not much help from me but I'm sure the better technical swimmers will help. I still feel like swimming is a big learning curve for me.
Johanne 

I am going to try to think about the body roll thing tomorrow as I am doing my workout.  I agree swimming is a SUPER steep learning curve.



Do you happen to have a link to a video showing the proper technique? I have trouble putting the body roll together with the downhill position.  I guess thats why we practice. right?

Edited by LycraCladChamp 2011-01-25 5:27 PM

DANIEL -

Really fine work with your swimming! My money says that your position change is responsible for most of the time improvement you experienced. The bottom line is that it could be 3 weeks or 3 months or 3 years, or even 3 decades, and time improvements will be minimal unless technique improvements happen.

I guess you know that what you did yesterday helped raise you lower body so that your legs aren't serving as a big source of drag. You are probably also fixing your head so that water is riding past it, rather than into and over it, which is also a source of drag.

As for breathing, it might be time to try "one-goggle breathing". That is, turn your head just enough so that the bottom goggle stays in the water -- one lens in, one lens out. Now, if you do this you will also have to contort your mouth so that you have enough of an opening to take in air, but not so much so that you're also taking in water. If one lens is in and one is out, then half of your mouth is also in.

So, picture Popeye. You know how he contorts his mouth so that he pours the spinach into just one corner of it (he does this so he doesn't have to remove his pipe, right?)? Well, you need to assume the Popeye mouth. For true! Also for true is the benefit of practicing this in the mirror so that you know you are doing it correctly, and when you are confident that you've got it right.......do it while you are breathing in the water! It will take some time to perfect it, and for the first indeterminate while you may be taking in more water than you like, but with practice you will get pretty good at it.

What this will mean to you is that (a) you will not need to rotate your body quite so much in order to breathe, and (b) you will benefit from raising the head more than you need, thus eliminating that much drag. Win-win!

Short of assuming the Popeye mouth and doing the one-goggle breathing, emphasize the downhill swimming by "pressing the buoy" (pressing down on your chest) but NOT burying your head. It could well be that your head is too buried, maybe even completely submerged, and that is why it seems like an effort to grab those breaths. So that is something else you can try --- not looking directly below you, but at the bottomof the pool about maybe eight feet in front of you. That should help with the breathing just because your face is that much closer to the surface.

As with everything esle in swimming, head position is much argued. you get different camps about where the fce should be pointing, and also different camps as to wher the head should intersect the water line. It is very likely that there is not one definitively correct school about either, as great swimmers and great coaches advocate entirely different techniques.

And don't get me started on all of that! I'm cureently viewing and implementing techniques that fly in the face of the time-honored "S-stroke" and the idea of finishing the pull as afr back as possible. A lot of fur has flown over THAT aspect of swim technique! Mercy!

DANIEL again -

re Zoomer recoms and your "Thanks for the advice buddy" ..................................... You're welcome, pal!

DAVID -

Three big hurrahs for you:
(1) Steelers!
(2) Being motivated enough to get your house back on the market!*
(3) YOUR DAUGHTER'S SWIM SUCCESS!!!!!!!

Is she as aware of the significance of it as you are? Okay, probably not, but does she feel great about it? She should, as it's a very big deal!


*Sigh. We should, we should, we should. We get paralyzed by fear, not to mention the fact that we have yet to decide on where exactly we want to move to. This a real bugaboo for us. Both of us are not great decision-makers, and in my case I am terrible -- and getting worse with each passing year. When I said "paralyzed by fear".........that's mostly me. Sigh.

As always, I'm late to the party, but I have a question about the discussion of fins from a few days ago. What's the purpose of using them?

Kasia

Edited by augeremt 2011-01-25 7:10 PM

JOHANNE -

And good for you, too, with the swim successes! There's nothing quite like knocking off a coach's plan for you to reinforce stuff on which you're working, is there?

As for swimming being a big learning curve for you, just remember -- You Are Not Alone! Very few people who pick up serious swimming as "seasoned" adults see improvements happen quickly; hence the big learning curve. I am currently in Phase 237 of technique work over the years, and the previous 236 phases have all been characterized as "my progress is as leisurely as the drifting of the continents".

There are about five discrete aspects to Phase 237, and some of the them seem to be working. As I live and breathe, they seem to be working!

One of them involves increasing my cadence quite dramatically -- by 2-3 strokes for 25m, and 4-7 strokes in the 50m pool. Today in the 50m pool I timed four 50s, with the following results:
45 strokes -- 55 seconds
50 strokes -- 48s
47 strokes -- 53s
50 strokes -- 49s

Do you see a pattern there? I think i do! And suddenly I have some hope that instead of being content with 30 minutes for an oly swim, i might be able to aim for 28, even. (Dare I hope???)

Of course, it's not all just increased cadence; some stroke changes are happening as well. But really -- for me the learning curve of swimming has been oh-so-looooooong, so soemthing like wat is happening now is rare and wonderful indeed. Of course, it could all turn out to be just smoke and mirrors, but at least there is some cause for cautious optimism!

AND ---- I am still working on a shoe/ITB post to you. Stay tuned!

KASIA -

Not only are you late to the party, when when you arrive you are such a s**t-disturber!

I say that because you raise the question about fins, which raises the questions about the importance of the kick in triathlon. As I just posted to Daniel, discussions of swimming techniques and strategies can be very fractious, and right at the top of the list apropos triathlon is The Kick.

My position has come down to something fairly simple -- if one can kick effectively and effortlessly, then do it. If not, don't.

For some of us, trying to kick effectively and effortlessly is like trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. To kick really well seems to require two things: the ankle flexibility for good plantar flexion, and the ability to generate the kick from the hips.

For me, I'm oh-for-two. It took me a long time to figure that out, and I was in denial about it for many years, but even a dunderhead like me can finally clue into something if they bang their head against a wall long enough.

My focus for a few years now has been on the front end of my stroke; well, juts about anything other than the kick. I do sporadic kick sets just cuz I guilt myself into it, but my big race strategy is geared towards saving my legs for the bike and run. (John and I just ahd a discussion about this over the past few days.)

BUT --- All of the above might be a digression from what you are really after, so as far as what is the purpose of using them, her's my two cents worth:
(1) Great for drills, as they increase speed a bit and allow the focus to be more on the technique being worked on.
(2) They help with leg and foot awareness -- where these are relative to your upper body, as well as providing more immediate feedback as to how your legs are moving.

To elaborate on the second point:
-- When kicking without fins, I tend at times to have my legs moving outside the slipstreman of my body. I am sure this is NOT happening, but when I have been filmed it is very clear that it is happening. With fins, however, I am immediately award of when my feet stary from my slipstream, as I end to actually feel a "fishtailing". But for neither love nor money can I conquer this tendency without the fins!
-- The Zoomes help me affect the kick I want -- slight flutter, generating from the hips. So, they provide part of the proprioreception clues I need, but as with the previous point -- once the fins are off, I lose the concept.

(Take away my glass slippers, and my whole swim turns back into a pumpkin!! )

The reason for the Zoomers, or any other short fin, is that they increase awareness better and -- unless one has size 23 feet -- they more closely reflect our actual foot size.

Is any of the above what you were after?

KASIA again -

As with the contentious nature of most swim discussions, the Toy-of-Choice is much-argued. That is, if one could have just one swim toy, what would it be?

Depending on your source, it could be literally any of the following:
fins
paddles
pull buoy
swim snorkel
tempo trainer
kickboard
fist gloves (or tennis balls)

I have read each of the those as the Toy of Choice, with no clear runaway first choice. (For me it would be a pull buoy, with apddles and tempo trainer close behind.) (And I neglect fist gloves or tennis balls, because I have trained my hands to remain as tightly-closed fists all on their own when I do fist drills.)

KASIA once more -

In the spirit of once again trying to separate you from your money, i would quite hoighly recommend the book I metioned a few days ago -- "Strength Training Anatomy" by Frederic Delavier. I was thinking about this because of the other stuff you do, such as rugby and snowboarding, which work and potentially compromise muscle groups quite far removed from swim/bike/run. So, you could maybe benefit from a book that gives detailed anatomy, and yet is very approachable.

As for the edition geared towards women, it is different than the original one. I have only glanced through it a couple of times, but I think it differs in having much more stuff aimed at the buttocks. Many of the exercises in both books are the same, and I couldn't tell you which ones are omitted from the women's edition to accommodate all of the buttock work. THre might also be more abdominal work in the women's one as well.

Any Barnes and Noble or Borders should have both. Happy browsing!

JAC -

Along with other disputatious aspects of swim technique is body roll, and a DVD I'm eating up these days advocates the importance of minimizing it! Who is a body to trust?!?

I guess my Popeye post to Daniel was coming from the perspective of minimal body roll, although the factor of breathing is not mentioned in the DVD I am eating up. But with a more prominent boy roll, the problem of brathing is not quite so great -- the head just follows the rest of the body!

My post to Johanne mentions some times I am doing in a 50m pool, and the slower times, with the lower stroke count, reflect more of a Toatl Immersion approach -- lots of glide, sligthly more body roll. But those faster times are coming with less of a body roll, as I simply couldn't keep up that cadence if my body is moving too much. It MIGHT be possible for a small person with a great core, but neither of those characteristics fit this 6'2" galoot with an average core at best. So for me to hav a lot of body roll and maintain a high stroke cadence -- impossible. (Or, if I try it for too long, i might well succeed in perfoming my very own appendectomy. )

Off to the State of the Union Address. Anyone else watching/listening?

Isn't it fun to watch them grow and learn new things?!! My daughter is also 4 and is in her second level of swimming and to see her go from using the swim belt to swimming without it across the pool is amazing!!

Shannen