Got Your Mojo WORKIN'! group - CLOSED (Page 53)

George,

You have plenty of time! 

Is the swim portion of your tri in the pool or open water?

Are you wearing a wetsuit?

Perhaps Steve can provide some open water swimming tips in the near future.

Edited by retiretotri 2011-01-27 11:40 AM

Mild numbness in my right foot after 3-4 miles. Not bad, just a little distracting. Sometimes it goes away sometimes not. Stops when I am done. Any clues?

Same thing here only at the 2 mi mark. However I do notice when I loosen my shoes a bit the numbness goes.away for a bit.

Steve and gang,Yesterday during my swim I used the popyee / one eye techniques. I could not believe how much more efficient my swimming was. Totally insane, I did my longest swim yet at 900 total yards and I felt so good I hopped on the treadmill to kill 30 min. 2.25 miles later i was totally popped.The only thing I did notice is with this swimming technique it is VERY easy to over rotate and become unstable I the water. This over rotation drastically demonishes any forward progess you have built up.I also tried pointing my arms "downhill" from my shoulders. This allowed me not to foocus on pressing the bouey as much but I noticed it kept my lower end closer to the surface.When using the Popeye breathing I did not have a problem in my still pool. What do you do when out in rough water and water gets in you mouth while tryingto breathe.

JOHANNE -

Well, I sorta kinda try not to be too technical about all this stuff, but it's kinda sorta the approach I've taken for myself. It's funny that it some respects (i.e., computer et al) I am a pathetic basketcase, but in other respects (anatomy; shoes) I can get quite technical. Sadly, though, the computerphobic in me also surfaces with my bike, which I cannot service on my own. I can talk gearing quite fluently.....but that's about the upper limit of my cyclelogical abilities.

But I digress!

NO! Nonononono! You do NOT run funny! Paula Radcliffe, who channels her inner bobblehead when she runs, runs funny -- but still manages to win marathon championships and participate in the Olympics. Many elite runners supinate so much that they are practically running on the outside ice edge of their feet. One of the best male pro triathletes (Terenzo Bozzone; I know that is wrong, will correct later) over-pronates significantly. Admittedly I have never seen you run....but I doubt you run funny!

Somwhere along the line you have been told, or have figured out on your own, that you (over-?) pronate. But remember --- Some pronation is good, as it provides nature's own shock absorption mechanism. So, up to a certain point, embrace your pronation!! In effect, this is what your chiro is telling you, too.

LORI came along at just the right time in this conversation, so look at her post (previous page) and then read mine below, okay?











Edited by stevebradley 2011-01-27 3:17 PM

LORI -

If you have followed the converstaion I've been having with Johanne about her ITB problems and how her shoes MIGHT be contributing to it, you will recognize some of what I said to her in what you said to me. To wit:

You had your own ITB problems when you went to stability shoes -- the 2140 (mild stability) and the Kayano (moderate stability). As a neutral-footed runner, you already have a slight (at the very least) tendency to under-pronate, and using stability shoes with the dual-density midsole simply force you footfall further to the outside -- prime territory for the breeding of ITB issues.

So, what I was wondering with Johanne is whether her NB 850, which is a stability shoe, might be causing her feet to supinate just a bit too much, hence her periodic bouts of ITBS. I mean, it's just a theory, but I think it might be worth looking into.

As for you, you don't seem to be "quite the mess" anymore, or at least not such a mess as to wrestle with ITBS. Narrow feet, for sure; "quite the mess"? I'm not buyin' it!

LORI -

Hoping against hope, I just prowled around trying to find a lightweight Asics in AA, and just as you have found -- nope. All their lightweight ones for women go no narrower than B. Rats.

I hope, however, that you will find the Cumulus significantly more repsonsive than the Nimbus. I used both several year ago, and it was hard to believe they were on the same branch of the Asics family tree. But it seems as if Asics has worked hard to eliminate a good deal of the bulkiness of the Nimbus, just to get its weight down so close to that of the Cumulus.

Stay tuned for ideas of where your might place your focus when you get outside, which'll hopefully be soon. ( I can practically hear you chomping on the bit!)

CRAIG -

Mercy! That's a long and topographically-demanding ride even at the best of times, but to pull it off in 95 dgrees is no mean feat. I certainly believe you that you were toast when you finished, and it's a small wonder that you weren't also buttered and sliced.

Yes, it might actually be a joy, were it done in more clement conditions -- 61 degrees, light overcast, no wind. Perfect!

Thank you for the details, as I love to live vicariously through wonderful rides undertaken by others!

Thanks Steve.

I think the structured cushioning of the Nimbus is probably better for me than a minimalist shoe like a racing flat/Kinvaras/Newtons.  I should have added that the shin splints may have been caused by running on gravel trails and grass trails at the state park wearing the Gel Nimbus.  So, the combination of running on uneven trails and speedwork may have caused the MTSS?  In addition, high arches and rigid feet cause some problems.

I looked at the pair of shoes I wore for running outside in September-October and raced in for the half marathon.  The outside of the heel is partially worn as is the inside of the midfoot of both shoes.  The outside of the toe is partially worn.  Not a speck of wear on any other part of the shoe.  Perhaps this helps?

To address the numbness issue, take a look at this alternative for lacing your shoes:  http://www.runnersworld.com/article/1,7124,s6-238-275--858-0,00.html

I lace my shoes this way and it relieves pressure from the top of the foot yet helps the shoe stay snug around the heel.

LORI/GEORGE -

Yes! I can provide some open water swimming tips ----- maybe even in the "near future"!

I will add this to my to-do list, although it is worth knowing that my to-do list is all too often just a figment of my memory; that is, a comprehensive "hard-copy" to-do list doesn't exactly exist. (Think I ought to work on that??)

Put  "make a to do list" on your "to do list"

JEFF -

I have no clinical assessment of your foot numbness, other than a probably unlikely long-shot. Thee is a condition called Reynaud's Syndrome, but I think it is more out on the toes, and also have pain associated with numbness. I will google that later.

The other possibility is what Daniel mentioned, which is having your laces too tight. There are two potential solutions for this"
(1) Use "runner's lacing". I won't try to describe that here, but as soon as I finish this I will try to find a link for you. It is a way to firm-up the lacing at the top so that the heelcounter is snug, but without involving tight lacing all the way up.
(2) Try elastic laces, which are an absolute necessity for any even half-serious triathlete. The race benefit of this is that it allows the running shoes to be put on very quickly and without tying. The advantage for you and your numb foot is that elastic laces disperse the pressure over the whole range of the lace-front; hence, no localized pressure. I use E-Z Laces. Yankz! is another common brand. I will generate a few more for you.

I shall return!

Beat me to it

JEFF again -

All righty then!

For the lacing, go to www.runnersworld.com.uk/shoes/how-to-lce-your-shoe/482.html, and the top one (loop-lacing lock) was the one I was trying not to have to explain! FWIW, I don't double-back into the hole I just exited, but use the top two holes to form the loop.

For elastic/speed laces. go to www.tri-zone.com, click on Run Gear, then click on Laces and you will get Easy Laces, Yankz, Squeezums, and three flavors of Sped Laces. I would like to love Yankz, but they are too difficult for my poor little mind. (Plus, you have to go on-line to find instructions on how to do them, as these are not in the packaging!) (And even with the on-line instructions.....I struggled mightily! ) Squeezums are no-brainers, but aren't as quick in transition as Easy Laces, which I find both quick AND easy to figure out! Win-win!






Edited by stevebradley 2011-01-27 5:09 PM

JEFF once more -

re your comment: "Put 'make a to do list' on your 'to do list' " .....................................You've been talking to Lynn, haven't you?

I do use elastic laces with a little plastic devise to hold them in place. From Avero I think.. The numbness isn't real bad, no pain, nothing in the toes just sort of mid foot and enough to be distracting. On occasion I have stopped and fussed with the laces/tongue and "think" I had a little relief. Hard to say if that was from simply stopping and messing around with it and believing it helped or if it actually helped.  As an aside I have 300 to 350 miles on my discounted Nike Alvords (trail shoes) and realize I should get new/better shoes soon.

I have a puppy that has found it necessary to change how shoes are laced , could be a factor. I will experiment with my laces until I get new shoes.

CRAIG -

Oh. I see how it is. Gain up on the defenseless disorganized one, just for sport.

Harumph!

JEFF once more and yet again -

Ah-ha! You've been there, done that with the elastic laces! But....have you tried cinching them snugly, but not too tightly, around shoe-chomping puppy's muzzle? That might help prevent your shoes and laces and getting shredded by those hypodermic puppy-teeth!

300-350 miles is getting real close to the end of the line, unless you're built like a whippet (like, <130lbs, and 3% body fat). I used to keep religious accounting of the miles on my shoes, and then I found out there was juts too much variance -- even between two different sets of the ame model. Now I just go on Perceived Wear-and-Tear, which is often red-flagged by coming back from a run with something hurting. The school of hard knocks approach, I guess it is.

regarding shin pain when running I've noticed it a little but have found if I can relax my foot/ankle a little bit on the recovery(?) portion of the stride I can get the discomfort to go away. I'm assuming this is what people refer to as shin splints, pain in the muscle on the shin or am I off track.

DANIEL -

Excellent session, and I'm glad that Popeye seems to be working for you! As a primarily one-sided breather, i am much better at froming my Popeye mouth on my right side. I'm beginning to think hat my mouth is permanently skewed that way, affceting my smile and general way of speaking. Kind of like unbalanced musculature in speed skaters, who always go counter-clockwise and so have one leg much larger than the other. I mean, it's bad enough that my aging, non-pliant skin shows goggle marks for about 83 hours after a swim, and now my mouth is permanently skewed. i keep waiting for the Olive Oyl of my dreams to find me!

As for the one-goggle trick, an interesting test as to how well you are actually doing it is to close your "top" eye as you go to breathe. If you are doing it 100% correctly ---- you will see nothing but the underside of the water surface when you breathe! I fhtta happens, though, don't feel bad. I tried that today, and each and every time I could still see the side walls of the deck. Granted, i couldn't see much of them, but I know thta my one-google technique is only about 94% effective.

Your word (demonishes) in the fourth sentence --- did you mean to say diminishes or demolishes? Either way I see that you have a problem, but the degree of the problem depends on which word you meant. I guess "diminishes" would mean you slow down; "demolishes" would mean you sink like a stone.

WHATEVER!

I do know what you are saying, and I try to explain it later on. It is common, though, and depending on how exactly you are over-rotating, it makes perfect sense. Even though T.I. drills have you way over on your side at times, that dors not lead to effective swimming. The rotation should really come from your core and also involve your legs, but your upper body should not over-rotate.

For starters, you want a high elbow on your pull, and that is very, very hard to implement if your shoulder is pointing down at the bottom of the pool because you have rotated that far. And without that high elbow, you will not be able to maximize your pull; your arm will "sweep" the water without utilizing the big muscles of your lats, and the full force of your forearm and hand.

But keeping your back half closer to the surface is great, so that part of it was a success. Congrats!

I am going to make a general statement to the group shortly, and it will concern how many technique refinements should be worked on at any given time. The by-and-large rule is to isolate technique work to one (and possibly two) discrete elements at any given time. With your session yesterday, you had a lot going on -- Popeye, one-goggle, arm-pointing, rotation, buoy-press, and the overriding endurance focus of 900 yards.

So, what will probably work better for you is if you go to the pool and maybe choose just two of those, and do them slowly and thoughtfully. Even at my advanced stage of doing this stuff, I still sapproach drillwork very mindfully -- stopping at the end of each length or two and thinking about what I just did, how it felt, how it sounded, how it looked, how successfully I might've done it and what slight changes I need to incorporate in the next length to do it better. For example, when I do fist drills, as i did today, all I am thinking about is making my elbow "break" such that I am feeling as much water on my forearm as possible throughout my pull. I'm not thinking about breathing or anything else -- just that specific goal of the fist drill.

See next post for your million-dollar question about rough water!

DANIEL -

Your question is superb -- How to breathe effectively in rough water? My answer is that you adjust, and usaully that means sacrificing some of your "tight" form. The way this usually happens is that the head is carried much higher, and sighting will be less to the side than it is directly to the front. So all the effort to keep your head low in the water so as to facilitate as much streamlining as possible......that gets jettisoned in rough water. Another thing that gets jettisoned is the common technique of sigthing every 6-8 strokes; in rough water it may be every 3rd or 4th stroke.

I don't want you to do the following at this stage of your swimming, especially as you are working hard on mastering effortless breathing AND keeping your hind half high in the water, but in a few months you can try swimming where you lift your head stright up so you are sighting right at the end of your swim lane; this is what you will have to do if you are swimming in rough water. When you do this, you will nootice that once your head comes up --- your hind end drops down. The only way to come close to preventing thois is to create an unnatural arch in your back, and unless you have abs of steel, this will become a problem after just a few attempts; you do not want to go there, trust me!

But desperate times call for desperate measures, and it is far better to create excess drag than it is to (a) go off course, and (b) struggle mightily to grab breaths. And as for that.....

Breathing in really* rough water involves two steps whenever your breath comes at the same time as your sighting. When this happens, you will be raising your head upward and forward to sight, and then immediately pivoting it to the side so that you can grab some air. The other times that you breathe, which don't involve sighting, it's just a matter of maybe having to turn your head more than is optimal for you --- and here is where your rotation might become exaggerated just to make sure your mouth is well clear of the turbulent water line. As youi have likely figured out, when this happens you are no longer looking to emulate Popeye......and both goggles will be well out of the water.

* In my 80+ troiathlons, i have had really rough water only a handful of times -- maybe 3 or 4. Mussleman half-iron '08 was the worst, just constantly riding the swells and sometimes finding my arm going through air, other times the recovery going only through water. I loved it! It was a hoot! Relaly frustrating, to be sure, but a blast. There were also times when I went five or six sightings without seeing anything but water in front of me (Hey! Who swiped the buoys?!?). This past Sept at a race in the Atlantic at Delaware, the water was gnarly, but not like at Mussleman. And lots of times i have faced choppy water, but that's more a botheration than an impediment.

All of that is to say that you shouldn't worry to much about really rough water. The odds will increase any time you race in the ocean, but most inland swims are quite gentle. Um....trust me?


I hope some of all that helped!

HEY EVERYONE,

A couple quick questions.  I stopped by a new bike shop to stay motivated (planning on buying my first roadie in about March) when the owner told me a couple interesting things... at least to me.  He can do a 12 month payment plan (the old shop wouldn't) which means getting a bike now is suddenly possible.  I've been looking around at a few bike shops and I've always liked this bike.

Looking at the Giant TCR. They have a whole whack of different TCR bikes, and I'll be honest not entirely sure which one I am looking at.  I know it costs 39,800 NT (1,368 USD).  It's a full Carbon frame, 20 gears, Shimano 105 everything expect brakes (they are local, but good according to the dealer)

Now for the questions.

1) What else do I need... my checklist so far is bike computer, front and back light, little gear bag thingy for under the seat, water bottle cage and bottle (maybe 2, undecided as of yet)... What am I missing? P.S. I already have pedals and shoes... Santa gave them to me.

2) What else should I ask for, request or insist upon?

3) How do I post a photo?

I think that's it.  Heading to the bike shop again in about 4 hours, but didn't bring the credit card today (intentionally).  Thanks in advance everyone!!!

P.S. I'm super excited!

TODAY'S GENERAL THOUGHT #1 ----- Cadence-counting


You probably know that cadence in all three disciplines is important to me, and the more you read and learn the more you will see that it is important to most people who want to improve their times and performances. The only purpose of this post is to acquaint you with the standard that most authors and coaches use. So.....


RUNNING -- Count the footfall of ONE foot only for a minute. When people talk about a cadence of 90 being optimal, they are basing that number on one foot only.

CYCLING -- Similar to running - one leg only. If you are aiming for a cadence (rpm) of 100, that would be for one leg only.

SWIMMING -- Cadence/stroke count in swimming involves BOTH arms. For a length of the pool, then, each time a hand enters the water, you count it. A stroke turnover of 20, then , would mean the left hand entered 10 times, the right hand entered 10 times.

And those are the standards!!


(The masochists amongst you might get pleasure from aiming for a cadence of 100 on the bike and counting madly to themselves to 200 before dividing it by 2....buit I'm assuming you're all a sensible, non-masochistic lot, yes? )

TODAY'S GENERAL THOUGHT #2 ---- Swimming Focus or Foci

I just posted to Daniewl the suggestion that when you swim and are working on technique and stroke refinement, choose one ( or two if you absolutely must....) discrete areas at any given time. If you are working on hand entry, keepm it at that -- don't muddy the waters by also thinking about your breathing and/or rotation and/or kick and/or elbow position on the pull (and a few dozen more). Rome wasn;t built in aday, and neither will your swim technique become a thing of effortless beauty all at once.

Of course, you can divide a session into several areas...........but even that is not highkly recommended. Like many other things in life, take the time to do soemthing really well, and that should also include time to reflect on what you have just done. I do this not only at the end of each length or two of a drill, but for quiet a while afterwards. I will also break up a technique focus for 5-10 minutes by just swimming, but all the time thinking about how the work went. The after 10 minutes, I will return to what I was doing abnd work on it some more.

The other benefit of taking the slow and throughtful approach is that it gives time for both muscle memory and mental memory to get instilled. At least for me, if I try to do too much in any given swim session, the work I did at the beginning gets eclipsed by the work I did at the end; I haven't given the first stuff time to become part of my memory banks.

Does this make some sense?

TODAY"S GENERAL THOUGHT #3 ---- Bailing on a swim before your form falls apart

I am sure I have mentioned this before, but it is definitely worth mentioning it again!

Long, steady swims have some benefits, but those benefits come to a screeching halt once your form starts to fall apart. The effect of this is actually quite insidious, in that the damge is not ahppening sommuch to your aerovbic system as it is to your muscle memory. That is, when the stroke falls apart , the doors become wide open for bad habits to just storm in and take up resdience. It rally is possinble to undo a lot of hard work through a blow-out session of a fast 1000m time trial, or something similar. Sadly, i speak from experience, having done way too many long swims and/or time-trial efforts when I was quite new to serious swimming. I knew my form was breaking down as the set progressed, but I just carried on......and let those sloppy-bad swim habits become part of my swim m.o.

One reason for counting swim strokes (see #1, two posts above) is that it is a sure way to know how many strokes you are doing when you are swimming effectively. In my own example, in my beginning days I was aiming for T.I.-type numbers, so I was cruising through the water quite nicely when I was taking 17/18/19 strokes for 25 meters. But then when I would do a fast set or a long set, towards the end I would count the strokes and see 20....and then 21....and then 22....and I knew I was getting sloppy. I could also feel it as a sense of thrashing, or timing being off, but the best telltale was the stroke count.

Especially for swimmers new to serious adult swimming, at this stage of the off-season you don't have to (a) pile up big yardage, and (b) try to swim super-fast. The odd fast length is okay, and maybe even a few of them, but DEFINITELY cease that effortt once you feel your form falling apart!

When this happens....then what? Well, you can go to some different strokes. or you can do some easy drills, or you can just exit the pool. No shame in any of that, as there is nobody there keeping track of what you are doing. It's just you and your hard-worked-for stroke, and if you decide to save it for the next time, that's the wisest thing you can do!