Marinus' gang - Thanks to a great group! (Page 6)

Hi Marinus - after a not so great swim this morning I've forgone my usual Thursday nite strength training - too much work (i work for a public accounting firm) has me a little more worn out than i like to be.  May do my strength training tomorrow.

Saturday is long run day - but since i'm just coming off PT for a hip scope my long run will only be 3.0 - but heh - i'm running with no pain since the scope so that's excellent!

Sunday is my long swim day - i'll do some drills for techique & then maybe some sprints and then a lot of nice slow laps just to relax & see how many i can do without stopping (i'm up to 13 last week - that may not sound like a lot but i just started crawling last April and it wasn't until the end of August that i could actually even do 1 lap without being out of breathe - so connecting 13 or more is an accomplishment for me) - so let's see how many i can do this Sunday!  Ultimately i have to connect 36 to cover the distance i'll need for my longest tri this year - but that's not til August so i've got time.

Does anyone have any suggestions for how best to improve swim endurance?  Any ideas are more than welcome!

Hey Marina - thanks for the encouragement! 

Have a great weekend ya'll!!

 Later  - Mary

Marina - I am with Marinus on this one, don't doubt yourself.  You have enough base to do and fitness will happen with the training.  You will know when it is right though.

Marinus - Glad you are feeling better.  I think the missing workouts is worse than the cold.  It has been BEAUTIFUL here the last couple weeks.  60's and sunny.  Yes, I am rubbing it in because soon summer will be here and I will be hearing from you.

Mary:  Great job on the swimming.  You will have a break through at some point and will feel like you can swim forever at a certain pace.  It is just a matter of keeping at it.  It sounds like you are on top of the technique and proper increases.  It is always nice to run without pain too!  Have a good weekend.  Chet

Scheduled long bike on Sunday in the BEAUTIFUL weather.

For increasing swimming endurance, the more you swim the easier it is!  I know it is frustrating to get to that point though because that is where I am with running!

I would love to get outside for my first outdoor bike ride of the year this weekend and test out clipping in and out with my shoes, but there is still sooo much ice here!  I can't wait for spring!

My first ever tri is scheduled for April 6th (Its a sprint).  It said it was a great tri for beginners so I signed up.  When I look at the people signed up here on BT most are scheduled to do Ironmans as well so I am getting super nervous!....... 

Mary;

Just keep up the swimming and it will come. I relate it to what a lot of us have experienced when we all first started running. Most stuggled at the very beginning and it seemed like we'd never get short past a certain mileage mark. And then there was probably one day when it just all clicked, and you felt you could keep going all day. It was like bursting through that bubble. Your swimming will be like that too. One day you'll feel good and like you could just keep on swimming right through that barrier. Trust your training and yourself. You'll get there. And we all look forward to you telling us about that day!

Hey Mary...have you read anything about Total Immersion? I took a clinic when I started swimming and after the weekend, I was able to swim forever...seriously. I wasn't fast, but pretty. The drills made me really get a good sense of correct body position and swimming like a fish. TI is all about swimming without struggle. It was a great start for me and I still revert back to the basic drills every so often. Also, have you considered having a session with a coach? Even in one session, a good coach can help you become more efficient in the water. I was amazed at how much I improved after having someone focus on me.

I'm ready for a good training weekend. Weather is mild and my running is getting better and better each outing. My challenge is getting to the pool...I need to get myself to the lunch time masters practice more often.

And, for all of you who can ride outside: I'm jealous because my wheels won't be seeing pavement until April.

Have a good weekend!

Bob: Good luck with your Du. Let us know how it goes.

I haven't done the Total Immersion myself, but my sister has, and I've only heard good things about it. So much of swimming is technique, and anything that helps with that is great idea. At a miniumum I suggest people find a Master's group and get instruction from a qualified swim coach. It'll be the best investment you can make in your swimming.

On swimming, today was the first day back in the pool after a week with this cold. Actually felt good for my 2500m workout. I'm looking forward to a normal training weekend.

 Thanks all for the info about swimming...yes to your thoughts about Total Immersion - I actually bought the book for freeestyle in april 2008 & worked with the drills right up through most of august last year but it wasn't until I broke down and bought the video that follows the book that i finally had what i would call a 'break-through' in my swimming.

Before i saw the video i literally could not swim even 1 lap without being out of breathe - it was pathetic & i couldn't figure out what i was doing wrong.  i couldn't understand how i could run decent times on land (not speedy-but i can turn 8:30 if i need to) and yet in the water i couldn't swim 25 yards without practically gasping at the end of the lap!

But then i saw the video - i watched it 3 times the day i got it - it was like everything came together in my head.  That afternoon i went back to the pool and did my first lap - first try without being out of breathe.  i was sooooooooooo happy - then i did another and another - resting in between of course & not setting any speed records - but not out of breathe either!!  So i totally agree with you Marina...I owe TI tons of kudos for showing me the way...i do the drill/swim laps for the first 12-20 laps every time i go to the pool for a warmup.  But for me i had to see the video for it to all come together!

Like some of you we are still all snow & ice here (upstate ny) & i'm itching to get out on my bike - the stationary bike just doesn't cut it!  and soon my new (and very first) road bike should be arriving - then i can get some practice at not falling to get out of the pedals - i can't wait (ha ha!)! i live on a fairly closed in residential street - it'll give the neighbors some entertainment for the day!

Have a great weekend ya'll - & thanks for all your help!

Later - Mary  

Your post Mary made me remember training for my very first try-a-tri. It was a typical sprint with a 400m swim. I had just finished my 2nd marathon a few months before, and I was a highschool swim team member many years before. So I thought it would be easy. But when I got started training in the pool I was absolutely gasping after 100 - 200m. When the race came I did about 50m free then ended up doing the rest breat stroke, which was my old event. I was thinking back to this and today's medium effort 2500m swim. And I think the lesson is that with time, dedication and training you can all reach your goals!

"Ordinary people can do extraordinary things".

Bob:

Well done! Especially on the second run. Read your race report too, and it sounds like you executed a good plan. And keeping such great notes will help you later on when you look back on your successes, and try to make those little improvements.

Again.. well done!

Hi all. How's your Sunday training going?

Me: Just finished my Sunday run. Did a final tune-up for The First Half half marathon next weekend. Ran steady 16km with 5 x 5:00 @ sub 5:00/km at or under lactate threshold. Felt OK, which considering last weeks illness, was good.

Hope everyone is feeling good and enjoying the fresh air and exercise. Be sure to look and appreciate the things around you. And be sure to say "Good Morning" at least once per mile.

Hey all,

First off, great race Bob! You have to be encouraged with being so successful on a race course that was just a bunch of hill loops. That'd be a tough mental challenge especially since you were probably in the mindset to expect a nice pancake flat route. Well done and nice job. 

 Marnius, nice run today. I hope to build it back up to that type of time and over that type of distance. I just want to keep hammering away at the 5km distance and work into things still.

Good luck on the half marathon. That might be a great goal for me next year. Have you done that one before??

 I'll try to remember to say once every mile, but I may be too out of breath to do it so maybe I'll do the alternative smile with good intentions instead. I'm looking forward to rolling out 5 runs and at least one bike ride this next week.

 Talk to you all later.

Gary

Hey Mary,

I am by far no expert (espescially in the water) but I have had the fortune of being in the same pool with some great long distance swimmers. I could barely swim four laps straight without having my heart burst out of my chest and risking drowning. There was a guy next to me in the pool training for the Canadian Ironman and he was stroking out lap after lap after lap. Jealous as I was I figured I'd ask him for some tips. He and another swimmer came back with this simple tip for me to increase my distance, slow down. They both encouraged me to start of the laps by trying to go as slow as I possibly could without sinking. They also suggested doing a breathing on every third stroke. They also told me to trust my exhaling and start to exhale on the start of my third stroke.

Basically what this did for me was allow me to go from doing barely 200 meters straight to being able to put in 1000 m!! It was super helpful for me to get that feedback. It might be super elementary but I hope it helps you in some small way to reach your distance goals. 

After training this way I was able to put together a 17:18 min 750 meter swin in my last tri. Not super fast but I'll tell you, I never had to stop to do the breast stroke. I was able to freestyle my way through the whole race!! It was a huge accomplishment for me. But then again, there are guys/gals in the water that can look like they have propellers built into their feet they go so fast! 

 Good luck with the swim training.

 GD

Hey GD - thanks for the tips - I know what you mean about the slowing down - I try at least one a week at the end of a swim to just do laps & see how many I can connect and when I slow down it definitely helps - but when it comes to exhaling I have a question:

Are you saying that I should start to exhale when I'm taking my third stroke and getting ready to take a breathe (on my third stroke)? It doesn't seem like I would have time to exhale enough to be able to get a good breathe for another 3 strokes.  I am able to breathe bilaterally & do so whenever possible.  Usually I'll alternate - sometimes taking 5 strokes per breathe, sometimes 3 (normally on the first few laps of a swim set I can manage 5 strokes, but as I start to get tired I wind up taking 3).  But I start my exhale (slowly) almost as soon as I put my face back in the water - am I doing that wrong?

Mary

Bob;

First, like any part of a tri, transitions take practice. It is hard to do, but with some imagination you can find ways.

My first question to you would be for you to review your last event, and describe where and why you think you lost time. Was it gear organizaton? Was it changing? Having your gear organized beforehand and having a plan on how you're going to change will help.

For example, if it's a wetsuit event my sequence might be, depending on weather:
wet suit off, towel off, shirt on (if not in tri suit), helmut on (I do this early so I don't break the helmut rule), rinse feet, dry feet, socks on, shoes on, glasses on. Go! I put my gloves on during the ride (they're usually in my shirt's back pocket).

For practice, one thing I used to do was after my usual pool swims I'd see how fast I could get onto the gym's spin bikes. But one of my fav workouts is a brick that also helps with transitions. Our group did 3 x 40km bike rides and between each segment we'd do a 30 minute run. Of course you can change the distances to suit your training. But not only did it help the body make the physical change, but it helped get me from the bike to the run. Doing it 3 times that day helped me get it smoother.

How about the rest of the group? What's your favorite transition practice?

Let's see...transitions. I get to practice after an open water swim or bike with all my gear ready to go in the back of the car at the beach. I try to do at least two brick runs (short like 10 min) a week which helps me deal with changing my shoes and get the legs going. Same thing for the wetsuit - practice getting that zipper down and swim cap off while running out of the water as well as stripping out of it. It gets easier each time. I've learnt a number of little tricks over the years but I seem at a lost right now.

Happy Monday team!

Hey Mary,

 I wouldn't for a second say that you're doing anything wrong. I just wanted to share my limited experience. I'm sure there are more experienced, Marinus ect in the group that would give you better than I could. More than anything I just wanted to share an experience and offer a little encouragement. Keep at it and I'm sure with the right coaching you'll hit your targets. Happy training. 

 Marinus,

 Would it be benefitial than to breath differently than I was doing in the pool? I breath every third stroke alternating breaths on each side. Should I start exhaling as soon as I re-enter the water?? That seems even more crazy than trying to exhale in the start of the third stroke but maybe I'll give it a try. I felt that I couldn't get enough air to do five strokes per breath but maybe that's because I'm not exhaling soon enough. Maybe I'll try. Any feedback on improvements to what I'm doing today would be great.

 Thanks,

 GD

Hey Gary!

I do what Marinus mentioned - I start to exhale as soon as I put my face in the water. If you are only starting to exhale on your third stroke then that would mean that you are holding your breath during that time...I don't think that we want to do that during cardio exercises. With a nice long exhale, I find that my HR stays low, I swim more relaxed and even more efficiently. I find that a nice long swim can be quite meditative - I love open water swimming because it's awesome to just keep on swimming without stopping for a wall and getting into 'the zone'.

I tend to breathe every five strokes. There's been a lot of discussion on the forums about breathing more often, especially during the swim in a tri, because it would tire you out less by getting more oxygen. I dunno if it really matters because it probably all depends on how efficient ones' stroke is. Some food for thought...I think that I'll my coach about it.

How's everyone doing?

You'll find a most people either breathe bilaterally (i.e. alternating sides every 3rd) or one sided. If one sided I'd suggest you try to work up to breathing every 4 instead of every 2. Everyone loses streamlining when they breathe, although some are much better than others. So the more you can stay head down the better. Myself, I tend to breathe 4's, but I just as easily go to 3's. I do highly suggest that all swimmers work in some hypoxic breathing drills. This will train you to get used to the uncomfortable feeling and help train your body to process oxygen better. Also, as often happens, if something such as a wave causes you to miss a breath you'll be used to a few extra strokes without that breathe. A sample drill could be to do a set of lengths as breathing 3-5-3-7 on each length.

Hey all - thanks for the all the swimming input - it's great being able to get so much feedback. 

Marinus - I have to tell you, I used to think the only Tris were IM and 1/2.  I'd watch them whenever they were televised - wishing I was in the kind of athletic shape to handle them - then I found Sprints last year and I'm hooked - who knows maybe some year an Olympic distance - so have a great race next week - it's great to be in the shape to do it!!

Bob - congrats on your race - it's sooooooo cool to place in group!

Hey GD - thanks for the input - I'm very novice at this whole swim thing and there's more than one road to get to where you're going - just so long as we get there!

Marina - you mentioned open water and I have a kinda weird question.  I did my first 2 Tris last year and my swim was shall we say - 'less than stellar'!  I survived on side-stroke and back stroke - this year will be different - but here's my question - in the pool you look down at a nice blue or black line and clear water.  In a lake it's not the same but I don't know what it is like.  I get visions of things suspended in the water and of course you can't see the bottom, and I start freaking myself out while I'm training in the pool - so I force myself to count strokes just to get my mind off it!  I guess it's fear of the unknown - is it as disturbing as I imagine, or is it the kind of thing that once you've done it it's no big deal anymore?  I'm not normally a squimish person but.....

OK ya'll - you can stop laughing now - this is a serious question (ha!ha!) - But seriously, inquiring minds want to know!

Later - Mary 

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=1488

First for transitions, here's a decent video I found last year on tranistions and it seemed pretty decent. I tried the elastic trick on one of my bike to run brick transitions and it didn't work out so hot for me... my transition success includes not towel drying enough so that my shirt stuck on my back so badly that when I finally muscled it down it ripped off my number bib! Finally got the bib pinned back on. all in all it was probably a good three to four minute transition swim to run!! 2012 Olympics here I come!!

Thanks all for the great feedback on the swim. I guess I fell into the third stroke alternating breathing because I always felt a little uncomfortable being under water too long without getting air. Once I was able to slow down things, relax a little and focus on exhaling earlier it really helped.The thought of exhaling as soon as my face hits the water again and stroke on a five count kinda freaks me out...but I'm willing to try.

Mary ...my first swim I was only able to do 200 m of freestyle/frontcrawl and then I had to do a slower breast stroke so that I could finish! The second tri, after practicing the breathing and slowing things down I was able to finish the race, all freestyle!! (although it took me a little longer to finish the 750m swim than it took the winner of the men's Olympic race finished his 1500m!! Crazy) But, this was a huge accomplishment for me...swimming is not my strongest point.

To help curve my open water nerves I just really focused on my stroke count and breathing. I felt like I didn't really have time to think about the fact that the swim was in open water. I also felt a sense of relief in knowing there were a bunch of other swimmers around me and people with kyaks ect. to help me out if need be. My first swim was in a very cold lake and was tough, my second swim was in the ocean and the bouancy of salt water is really cool!

Not sure what to say except that if I can do it, I'm almost certain you can do it too! You're right, it's not how we do it but that we are doing it that's important!! Happy training...

 Talk to you all later.

GD