Experior's Mentor Group - CLOSED (Page 6)

Lots of stuff here.  I'll make a few posts, trying to keep the different topics in different posts.

Forefoot vs. midfoot vs. heel, and running form.

There is no one 'right' way to run.  The majority of runners are heel-strikers.  This is true even at the elite level, for any distance over about 800m.  (There have been studies analyzing the strike of elite runners.  I forget the precise numbers, but something like 90% of them are heel strikers.  More or less the same holds true of amateur runners.)  So I guess it goes without saying (but here I am saying it...) that you can run fast, avoid injury, etc., while being a heel-striker.

So why do people say that heel-striking is bad?  Some people say it out of ignorance, or because they see 200m sprinters running on their toes (which they do for the most part) and think "that's how you go fast".  (And it is how you go fast if you are sprinting.)  But by far the most common reason is that people mistake heel-striking for landing with your foot out in front of your body (in which case yes, it will be your heel that hits the ground first).  Landing with your foot out in front of you is indeed a mistake, because with your foot out in front of your center of gravity, you are essentially putting on the brakes every time your foot hits the ground.  You want to hit the ground with your foot under your center of gravity.  You can achieve this by running 'tall' (hold your torso up nice and straight) and don't 'overstride' (the correct term for the mistake we're talking about).  If you are trying to lengthen your stride, don't do it by 'reaching out' far in front, but rather by 'extending out the back'.

I can't emphasize this point enough, because there is a awful lot of misinformation out there:  there is nothing wrong with heel striking.  I'm a heel striker.  I can run a 5 minute mile, while heel striking.  People much faster than I are heel strikers too.  Most elite runners are heel strikers.  There's nothing wrong with it.  Overstriding is the problem that some people have, not heel striking.

In general it is a bad idea to force yourself to plant your foot in a particular way (heel, midfoot, forefoot).  Most people naturally self-select the biomechanically best way for them to strike.  Forcing yourself to strike a different way is a good way to become injured.  I can't even estimate how many times I've heard of people trying to become forefoot runners because they were told to or read somewhere that it is better, and ended up with calf or Achilles problems.  If forefoot running is right for you, it will happen naturally.  If it isn't, don't worry -- you're not missing anything.  It isn't faster or better; just different.

This is not to say that there aren't drills to help one work on form.  It's just that good running form has nothing to do with which part of your foot hits the ground first.  Good running form is mostly about being upright, not swinging too much from side to side, and staying relaxed.  Here are some of my favorite drills:

http://www.runningplanet.com/training/running-drills.html

Of these, especially for beginners, probably the best is strides.  Most people naturally run more efficiently when they run faster.  Most people also get injured if they run fast too much.  Strides are a great way to get in some fast running with minimal risk of injury.  Don't think of the strides as sprints.  They are fast, but far from all-out.  (Sprinting form is different from distance-running form.  You sprint on your toes.)  Go about 20-30 seconds each time, and work from maybe 3 or 4 times during a run to maybe 8 or 10.  Space them out, and don't begin until you feel warmed up.  Do it once or twice a week.

Way to go!  (I'll be addressing your other questions in my other posts -- working on those now!)

Thanks, T!  I've been building up my mileage over the last 2 years or so (from no mileage at all) and recently ran my 2nd half marathon.  I'm training for a full in May.  I have seen my pace improve SLIGHTLY, especially on my 3, 4 and 5 mile loops.  Where I get frustrated is with my long runs.  I know they are supposed to take a long time, but they are taking a loooooooong time.  I'd really like to improve so that I don't spend half of my day running. :-P  You're totally right though about running the same routes and tracking your progress.  It does make me feel better to look at my stats and see that I am improving...a little

OK, next topic.

Volume (and increasing it).

The term 'volume' is sometimes used synonymously with 'time', sometimes synonymously with 'distance'.  So people who are increasing the number of miles that they run per week are likely to say that they are 'increasing volume'.  Speaking informally, there's nothing wrong with that use of the term, but if we are talking about 'the appropriate training load for a given individual', then we need to be more careful about what we mean by 'volume'.

Training load is what we want to monitor as we 'build'.  Training load is, roughly, the amount of stress that you put on your body -- remember that stuff about tearing yourself down to rebuild?  We're talking about the tearing down part.  Load is a function of two things -- time and intensity.  Running a mile easy is far different, as far as your body is concerned, from running a mile all-out.

When it is recommended to 'build volume', typically the point is to build time, while maintaining more or less the same mix of intensities.  So you'll often here the '10% rule' in running -- increase mileage by no more than 10% per week.  As a rule of thumb, this one isn't bad (but it is just a rule of thumb that works better for some than for others), but it has to be understood that the 10% increase in mileage does not go along with a change in the mix of intensities, or at least not an overall increase in intensity.  Example:  if you are running 10 miles per week right now, most of it at an easy effort, and then next week you run 11 miles, most of it at a hard effort level, you are liable to get injured.  If not now, then soon.

I think I mentioned in an earlier post that around 5% of your running can be 'hard', around 25% of your biking can be hard, and as much as 50% of your swimming can be hard.  (These too are just rules of thumb!  You have to figure out what works for you -- it is best to begin by erring on the side of caution.)   If you are doing a time-based plan, then the times will increase, and these ratios should stay roughly the same.  It is even a good idea, as the times increase, to back off on the intensity a bit until you know what your body can (or cannot) handle.  If you start to recover poorly, try first to maintain the time but back off on the intensity.  (That's what Indiana Jones meant when he said "It's not the years, it's the mileage.")  If that doesn't work, then the increase is too quick and you'll need to back off the time too, and start increasing again when you can, but more slowly.

I just got around to reading the long (but not boring) post Experior made on page 4.  Wow.  That is a wealth of information and knowledge that will be useful to the beginner and the experienced.  Unfortunately, I didn't listen to anyone about overtraining and the importance of 'GOOD" training when I decided to do an Ironman, and paid the price in injury, misery, and lack of performance in my race.  If you haven't read the post, go and read it before you set any schedules, race plans or goals, it will be very beneficial to alll of you (us)!

Next...

Buying a bike.


Hands down the most important 'feature' you are looking for in a bike is fit.  If the bike doesn't fit you, you will be uncomfortable on it.  If you are uncomfortable on it, you won't ride it.  If you don't ride it, well...

Now, just so there's no misunderstanding, we're not talking about La-Z-Boy recliner comfort.  There's no avoiding the fact that -- especially starting out -- your backside is going to hurt.  Your lower back might get tired and sore.  Your hands might hurt.  Your neck is likely to hurt.  These things do get better, but they never go away entirely.  (Last year as IM race rehearsal I did an 8 hour ride and the last 2 hours were agony...)

By 'comfort' I mean that you are in a position to handle the bike well, and you are able to produce power without feeling awkward.  If you are new to cycling on a road (or tri) bike, then you're going to have to put some trust in the person who fits you on the bike, because it's probably going to feel awkward at first in any case, even if the bike fits you like a glove, and you won't necessarily be able to use 'feel' as your only guide.  On the other hand, even a total beginner will have some sense of which bikes feel better, so while you should listen to the person who is fitting you, don't ignore how it feels.

Many people new to triathlon start off on a road bike, and I think this is a good choice.  They are easier to handle than a tri bike (though IMO the difference in handling is often exaggerated) and they are somewhat more versatile.  A tri bike is good for one thing and one thing only -- going fast in a non-drafting time trial type situation.  With a road bike you can do a lot of different types of riding, from group rides to mountain rides to time trialing.  I have a road bike and a tri bike and I probably ride the road bike twice as much as the tri bike over the course of the year (though my riding becomes more tri-focused during the season).

I think you could do a lot worse than to find a local bike shop that you trust (a good way to do that is to ask around, including in the 'state' forums on BT but also around town), give them a price range, and emphasize to them that a good fitting bike is your number one priority and you are willing to wait for it if that means they have to order one for you.  Try out as many bikes as you can with them, and ask that they fit you on the bike.

If there's something you're wondering that I didn't cover here, please ask!

OK, by my count (if I missed something, let me know!) there's one more.

Getting faster.

Hannah wants to get faster.  Don't we all!  You'll see lots of fancy training protocols out there designed to make you faster, and there definitely are some finer points to getting faster, and with these finer points, different things work for different people at different times.  Maybe another time I'll go more into some of these finer points (structured intervals, periodization, etc.), but there is one point that is by far the most important.  Wait for it.... 

Consistency.

OK, I'm not going to repeat what I said in that post (to which Billy just very kindly gave the thumbs up -- thanks!  Glad it is useful), but along with it, I'd say that building volume is important to getting faster.  (Of course, these go hand in hand because building volume requires consistency.)  Last year I spent some time at 50 miles per week, and definitely noticed a boost from what I was doing at 30 miles per week.  I'm now building to around 65 miles per week, and already I'm seeing some benefits (I'm not there yet).  So beyond consistency, number one, I'd say, is building mileage.  "Mostly easy, sometimes hard" (that's a mantra that gets repeated a lot on this site, and for 99% of us, myself included, it is good advice).

A second point is that you should not be saving your slowest running for your long runs.  People think that LSD means 'long slow distance' (among other things...).  It doesn't, or at any rate shouldn't.  It means 'long steady distance'.  So yes, it's generally a good idea to run your long runs at a steady pace.  But save your slowest running for your easy days.  Don't be afraid to push yourself a bit in your long runs.

I generally train the run by pace (I used to use HR but mostly don't now), and for that I like to use McMillan's running calculator:

http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/mcmillanrunningcalculator.htm

You enter a race result (not the time you hope to run in your next race, but the time you did run in a recent race or all-out effort by yourself, but race is preferable), and it gives you back several suggested training times (along with predicted race times).  Look at the long run pace, and aim for the faster end.  I actually go even faster than that in my long runs, but I do that because I know from experience that I can recover well from it.  It is smart to begin at the slower end and test yourself a little harder each week.  When you wake up sore the next day, then you know you went too fast . Dial it back a notch and you're there.  In other words, your long ru pace should (in my opinion) ideally be the hardest you can run without getting sore.  (This is assuming that you've been running long enough that you are not sore after every run!  Those who are currently at the spot, don't worry about pace!  just get out there and run.  The soreness goes away quickly.)

By the way, there's a lot of great info on McMillan's site.  And as for the running calculator, one could do a LOT worse than simply running three types of run, following the paces suggested by him as 'recovery jog, long run, and easy run'.

Nutrition is very individual.  I've also done the homemade sports drink, and it works fine for me.  I tend not to have many nutrition issues, though during long hot bike rides I do tend to get very particular cravings.  Once I had to stop at a gas (sorry -- petrol ) station to buy a PayDay candy bar; it was all I could think about while riding.  I have no idea why -- I think prior to then the last time I'd eaten one was twenty years earlier.

The concern, of course, is the acidity, and as you get more dehydrated (which is inevitable -- you cannot replace fluids as quickly as you sweat them away) how it might affect you.  There is really only one way to find out.

So practice your nutrition while you are preparing for your HIM.  You should be able to discern what works and what doesn't.  If you can practice with whatever they are serving on the course, so much the better, as being able to consume what they serve on course is a big advantage in the race.

This is some great information today Michael, thanks a bunch. Your method for using the McMillan calculator as a training tool is particularly interesting for me, I would have never thought of doing that.


Hope everyone is having a productive day!

I used Infinit as my source of nutrition during my Ironman and training.  I asked the folks at Infinit (great help!) about oranges during longer races.  Their response was the the acid in the oranges would inhibit the absorbtion of most types of calories, proteins, whatever.  Recommended that I not partake of the oranges during my races.  Just my 2 cents.

I love the wealth of knowledge and the varied experience there is in our group.  (also glad i'm not the only one running 14 minute miles :-) )

A little word on buying a bike:  I would recommend getting fitted for a bike at several bike shops.  When I purchased my bike last year each shop gave me a different size!  Keep in mind, when standing over the bike (in front of the seat) there should be a bit of room between you and the bike.  not much, about an inch.  Also, you should have a slight bend in your elbows when holding on the handles/gear.  A seat can only be adjusted so far, so if you are over reaching, even by a little, for your handle bars you'll feel it in the long run.

Every bike is different, even when trying out the same brand, so I would encourage you to get a good baseline, but be open to what fits, not what the size is.

Once you have an idea of what you want and what size you are around, craigs list is a GREAT place to get used bikes.  I got an intro trek road bike (trek 1200) for $500.  it had 30 miles on it, and runs for $900 new.  They have every type and price range and if you are new to biking and new to triathalons it personally doesn't make sense to me to buy an expensive bike until you have more riding time under your belt.  Then you'll have a much better idea of what you want and your $1500+ purchase will be much wiser.

hope this helps!

swim class starts tomorrow, wish me luck.

That's good info, Billy.  I've not used Infinit, but I've heard a lot of good things about them and their product.

Hannah - For what it's worth, I bought the bike I used for my first tri at a garage sale.  It was a decent hybrid bike that just needed a good cleaning.  The race entry fee was more than I paid for the bike, so I definitely did not break the bank right out of the gate. 
Was it a 'fast' bike? Nope
Was it fit perfectly to my body? Not a chance
But I finished the race and definitely had a good time. (And I wasn't the only person on a cheap set of wheels)

Find something super cheap or borrow a bike from a friend for that first race.  If you are like the rest of us, you'll be daydreaming about Treks, Cervelos, and Felts in no time at all.

Jeff

Jeff, these are great points.  If you want to do one race, or even a few races, just to see how it goes, then you can do that with a very minimal commitment to a bike, even zero if you can borrow one.

On the other hand, bike shopping is...fun!

This is for Jeff.  Nevermind Jeff, it will come later.

Edited by elcaminobill 2011-01-04 7:57 AM

Good luck!  Let us know how it went.

Jeff, its hard to tell, but I think you are holding up a redfish? in your avatar?  Now this is a redfish grown southern style!

Alas, the fish is to big to post (or at least the picture is), will try again later.  Dangit!

Edited by elcaminobill 2011-01-04 9:34 AM

Oh my gosh, this group rocks!  Thanks for all the info, all! I'm sure I will have more questions soon.  Let the bike shopping begin.  

Laura, how did swim class go???  

Dave,

I'm not ignoring your question(s), just waiting until I have time to make a proper answer -- either tonight or tomorrow morning.

One thing that I should add to the post about running form:  I said there to run 'tall' with your torso straight.  That statement could give the impression that your body should be at a 90 degree angle to the ground.  That's not right.  You DO want your torso to be straight, but you should have a slight 'lean' forward as you run.  Don't lean from the waist -- don't bend over, in other words.  Think of leaning from the ankles, with your body more or less in a straight line.

Here's a nice YouTube video showing it well.  The one thing I take issue with in the video is the statement that you should land midfoot.  They justify this by saying that if you land on your heel, you will be putting on the brakes.  That's only true if you strike out in front of your center of gravity.  Don't do that!  The rest of the (short) video is really fine, IMO.

As an antidote to their advice to strike midfoot, I give you a post from a couple of years ago by the 'Science of Sport' guys.  They are two sports scientists who regularly post stuff relevant to endurance sport.  They make the same points that I made earlier (but they do a better job of it).  The one thing I'd take issue with in their post is the suggestion that everybody becomes a midfoot strike when they run 'fast'.  Some do, some don't.  The Japanese study that they cite earlier makes this clear.  74% of the elite marathoners in that study (and I'm going to take it as given that they are running fast in a race!) were still heel-striking.  Only 4% were forefoot striking.  (The rest were midfoot.)

Billy, good eyes, it is a redfish I'm holding in my pic.  Typical size from the Apalachicola area of Florida's panhandle.  I'm assuming you were trying to post a photo of big bruiser red?  I love fighting the big ones, I've landed a few through the years.  But snook fishing is my favorite, spent many nights chasing them when I lived in Florida.

Yes, it was a big red,a nd yes I will accept the invitation to go snook fishing, it was an invitation wasn't it?

Hi everybody,
From my experience I would agree with Michael's foot strike info. I took a running clinic years ago where forefoot or barefoot running was taught. I started doing this which was pretty natural for me since I am naturally a midfoot striker. I tore a tendon in my foot not too long after starting this type of running-more on forefoot. I was also doing hill repeats a lot at that time so don't know if for sure forefoot running was the cause but better to go with what is natural I would think-though I am no expert at all. This said, I am liking my Newton shoes, mostly because I have really bad bunions and as a result deformed large toes which point in toward my other toes instead of going straight and they are also turn on their sides. So what happens when I run is that this part of my foot collapses in and my bunion and side of my big toe actually go over the side of the shoe and hit the ground. As a result-layers of blood blisters on my toes and bunions. I have holes in the sides of all my shoes from this. I have seen podiatrists, ortho drs, therapists, etc. who all say surgery but then I won't be running for at least 6 months or maybe never again.  With the Newton shoes my feet don't collapse in since there are these thick "lugs" right at that point. But, I don't know what else this might mess up since my foot is not doing what it naturally does. I end up striking midfoot in these. I am still not running outside though since not too sure of them.


But I am bursting with questions!
I will do my first ocean swim in May. I have one chance to practice swimming in the ocean at the end of February. I will be staying on the south side of the Yucatan Peninsula on the ocean and I would like to know what to practice. If there is no lifeguard I guess I should not practice at all but if there is a lifeguard any advice would be greatly appreciated. Also is it common to get caught in a riptide during the swim part of the triathlon? I know you are supposed to swim parallel to shore until you can swim out of it but how hard is that and does that happen?
Also I signed up for the age group waves but should I have signed up for the newbie(actually I think it says first time) since I have only done one triathlon? (Did not do well as far as time but I finished!) That was a fairly small triathlon and St. Anthony's in Florida is supposed to be huge and I had a little trouble with all the different waves passing me and knocking me about each time, not just at the beginning.

Oh, I can go on, sorry.

Thanks,
Jan

Hi folks, just to let you know I may not be active on here for a wee while, alas my mother in law has been in hospital for 3 weeks and is very weak, not looking good. I'll train and update as and when I can. Neil x

Best wishes for your mother-in-law and your family, Neil.