HR Zones: 220-Age - the TRUTH! (Page 6)

I am glad you did the test. Congrats.

Max is unimportant, so just forget about it. If you can push 176 for 20-30 minutes, chances are your max is quite a bit higher. If you use the ranges from the LT Test, you will be fine. Re-test every 4 weeks and you will know if the numbers are accurate. You won't be wasting any time - training is all good - there are no bad or wasted workouts. It's just training. if you can run and carry on a conversation, then you are in the right zone for aerobic Z1-2 workouts. It's that simple. Don't think about it too much. Enjoy training and have fun out there.

Mike

I live and generally train at an elevation of 4,300 feet but will be on the coast this weekend and was considering doing a bike TT test while I'm there.

Would the elevation be a factor at all for skewing my results? I suppose max LT will be max LT regardless of elevation . . . however, my pace might just be a little higher at sea-level than it would be at home . . .

I believe there are garbage miles. Wasted workouts. Times when no workout is a better workout than a bad workout.

Jim

It's best to test and train at the same ALT, as there will be a difference in HRs.

That all depends on about a million factors:
Here are two:

Is training better then sitting at a bar drinking beer and smoking?Yes
Is it better than eating a pound of M&Ms? Yes

If your option is to train or do something detrimental to your body, then train.

What if it was peanut M&M's?

kidding

Once again, I don't use MHR - please read the thread from the top....

Mike,

I'm new here and just spent an hour reading through this whole thread (and checking out your coaching site -very nice ) Thx very much for taking the time to answer all the questions here and just plain giving advice.

I've just started training, and am way out of shape with only moderate exercise in my past. I doubt I could complete the test you mention in your initial post (or if I really should at this stage of my training - I'm at week #1 of real training, been walking for a few weeks 30 min 3 or 4 times a week.)

I did see you say in this thread that beginners should start monitoring their HR from the start. But should I be doing anything other than recording it prior to being able to do the test you mention? What should I look for in tracking my HR. Do I have to wait till I can adequately complete the test prior to setting up any type of HR zones? I have included a run/walk pattern in my plan so as to be able to increase my workout duration/distance. As a beginner I'm unsure at what pace to go at while running. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

thx
Dan

Hi Dan

Thanks for the nice words on the site.

Skip the test and slowly build up the aerobic base. One thing I would reccomend is to walk 8 minutes (if you can) and walk 2 minutes. Do as many cycles of this as you can. I would run easy at a conversational pace and what that means is that you can say your name, address and phone number in one breath without gasping. IF you can do that, you are going at the right effort. Don't worry about pace or HR for now. Work on extending that one longer run per week, maybe 1 cycle a week would be good for you.

Once you are up to 90 minutes or so, then maybe try the test and see where you are...
How does all that sound?

Sounds good. I'm a little anxious to do tons of training, but I imagine that taking it slow and easy is the best way to get started. For now I'll just wear my Heart Monitor and get familiar with how I feel as compared to the actual rate.

thx
Dan

Well I'm working late tonight, was stuck on a problem and fustrated. Had my running gear with me so I decided to go for a run to see if I could figure it out by enjoying the great FL outdoors all by myself. I also had the new HR monitor and the intention was a slow run since LSB was yesterday. After 1.5 miles I decided to see what I could for 20 minutes. 2.6 miles and a 170 LT.
My Zones are:
Factor: Zone 1
0.655 Low 111
0.800 High 136
Factor: Zone 2
0.805 Low 137
0.890 High 151
Factor: Zone 3
0.895 Low 152
0.930 High 158
Factor: Zone 4
0.935 Low 159
0.993 High 169
Factor: Zone 5 (a)
1.000 Low 170
1.020 High 173

I have a feeling that I spent more time in Z4 range than I think. Now to nail down PE and body temps (still hot in FL) to HR. Still haven't figured out the problem, there's always tomorrow...

Wow! What a thread... I had actually just posted something similar on one of the other boards. It is relavent to this thread, but from a more novice point of view (what's a "TT" for example?).

I was going to start a new thread here, but it probably makes sense to ask it in this one. Here's the post:

Hi all... I did a good workout last night and achieved my PB for 5 miles. While doing so, I was monitoring my HR and I got to thinking that I may need to understand the different zones, and how I should be managing them.

First, some stats. I'm male, 42 years old. I have measured my resting HR to be somewhere around 45-50. I train 7 days a week, usually a 5 mile run, 20 mile bike or 1 hour swim. I've been training for about 2 years, did a marathon, and just did two sprint's.

When I run, my HR is typically in the 150's and I feel comfortable. A hard run has me in the upper 160's, lower 170's. (On the bike, the highest I've been is in the upper 150's.)

For last night's run , I was bouncing around 175-178. It was hard, but I felt pretty good. I was even contemplating dong the last .5 miles a lot faster. But, because my HR was so high, I backed off.

The questions I have are:

1) I was under the impression that as I become more physically fit, my resting HR will be lower, and so will my MHR. Using the 220-age formula, it seems to be right on in terms of what I saw last night. Should my MHR be lower?

2) The obvious aside (slow down), how to I lower my HR during my normal runs? I.e. what training methods should I use to increase my speed, while keeping my HR lower?

3) Is there anything else I should be thinking about with respect to my HR?

Thanks, and of course, I appreciate any tips or help,

/greg

Greg,

Welcome to the the thread that won't die - just kidding. Ok - first off - do you have an average HR for your 5 miles last night. Did you run any of it harder then the other - and what I mean is did you bust it out for 3 miles or 2.5 miles and just run as hard as you could?

To answer your questions:
1 - Don't concern yourself with MHR. It's irrelevant. Read my original post on this thread.
2 - Learn what zones are best for you by figuring out your LT - do the 30' test and see what your LT is. From there you will know what 'aerobic' is (Z1-2) - and after some time training there you will see how you will run faster at the same HR. Your body will become more efficient at the same HR over time. This is how you increase pace (speed) while keeping the HR lower then a race effort
3 - think about how RPE, Pace and HR all correlate for you.

I hope this helps!

Mike,

My average HR is around 163. See this from today's run (this was an outdoor run, but similar - I felt great, but the HR is high toward the end):

http://www.gfm.net:443/~march/hr-run.jpg

for more detail (it is a big image).



Yeah, I'm still trying to understand that... :-)



I guess I missed the 30' test explaination - I'll go back and re-read the thread. What is RPE? And TT? (LT I actually figured out!).

Many thanks!

/greg

Greg
You ran very hard two days in a row?
RPE = rate of preceived exertion
TT = Time Trial

Well, that's the thing... The runs didn't feel very hard. I would rate them as a 7/10 RPE. From your comment, I guess this is something I shouldn't be doing, but I've been doing it like this for about 2 years now with no perceived side effects. It is usually obvious from a physical point of view to me when I need a day off.

Is this related to why, when I run, my HR is in the range that it is?

Thanks!

/greg

greg

Its my opinion that you should do the testing so you know what your LT actually is. Then you would know the proper zones.

I'm not sure I understand your question...

Hi Mike,

I have been using a heart rate monitor for about 8 years and have never set any zones but I pay attention to it when I am working out.

I know when I am in the low 160's (running) (11 mile run with a couple of short stops average 163 Saturday) I know I'm putting out a good effort that I can sustain for a very long period, if I am in the mid to upper 150's I'm not loafing but I am not exerting myself either. If I am in the 170's I am racing or going up a big a** hill. On some short races 5k I have seen my hr at 183 at the end and the average in the upper 170's.

I like the method you use to get the training zones using the LT threshold and am going to give that a go, but I do have a question. It would seem to me that if you had two identiacal people (clones if you will) physically (I know no two are alike) but one had a much higher toleranc for pain than the other, that their lactate threshold would show up as being different using the 20 minute test. Just curious.

Thanks!

Jim in Nevada

Jim - you are probably right. That's what us coaches call a 'physcological factor'.

Mike,

First things first: let me say thanks and congratulations. Its not often that you see professional coaches offering so much of themselves for free. You're part of what makes BT such a great place.

Looks like I need to keep reading the Bible according to Friel. I got through the first few chapters and kept thinking that it was all good information but wondering how it was going to apply to my training as a beginner. Looks like I need to get into base training mode and prep myself properly for next season. I'm looking forward to applying all this new information along with the HRM that I just ordered for my wife to give to her mother to give to me for Christmas. :-)

A couple of bike training questions for you:

First, is adapting the the TT test to the spin bike environment as simple as setting the resistance at a level that'll allow cadence at or above 90 but leave you pretty wiped out at the end of the test? I know you'd commented on this somewhere above but wasn't clear. Sorry if its redundant.

Second, if I'm working on building base and going to spin classes, do I assume correctly that I should adapt the resistance to keep in Z1 and Z2? Or, should I chuck the classes and set up a workout for myself that keeps me there?

Again, thanks for giving us your time and advice. I hope it brings you many, many athletes who're eager to take their performance to the next level under your expert guidance.

Cheers!

Tom

Tom,

Thanks for the nice words, I appreciate it.

On the bike TT, you could use the spin bike. And the 90 rpms is a good target as well.

On the spin classes - you can sit in there and keep it Z1, Z2 that's perfectly fine. Once a week give yourself some leeway to go to Z3 and Z4 -no more than 20' and don't crush yourself - just ease into it and make sure you walk away being able to complete the next day's workouts. Good luck and I hope to hear from you again.

I have a question about calculating average heart rate with an older heart rate monitor. I've had the monitor for years and used it off and on with the 220-age formula. I'm interested in trying the TT method and got all ready to go for it when I discovered that although my heart rate monitor does have a memory function (where it tells you time spent within certain pre-set zones), it does not appear to calculate average heart rates over time. Any suggestions for detetermining my average heart rate with my current monitor or do I need to break down and get a more modern device?

Thanks for your time. Great thread! Your expertise and participation on this site is really wonderful!

Mike

Mike - if you were to glance at the HRM every few minutes, and I willing to bet the HR will stabilize after a while and you should see 'close to the same number' after a bit. So, you can get away with the old monitor yes.

However, if you want to download the HR detials of the workouts and be able to track routes/paces/HRs over time, you should get a new HRM. I actually sell Polar HRMs, so if you are looking to get one, let me know, I can pass on a deal to you.

First of all, thanks for all the information. Last night I did an LT test and got what seems to be some pretty high results. My average HR over the last 20 mins was 192 and at one point it was as high as 201.

I know that I do not now, nor have I ever had adequate base. As a result, when I begin running my heart rate jumps up to around 140-150 at a very easy pace that I can sustain for a long time. My goal for the off season is to keep from pusing myself and actualy stay slow to work on base. As I work on base should my HR remain lower during easy runs? If so, will this change my HR at high effort reducing my LT results, or will my LT results remain the same independent of overall fitness?

I hope that makes sense.
-Tyler