RE-OPENED Birkierunner's 2013 mentor group - RE-OPENED!!! (Page 6)

Amy, if you click on the red HELP button at the top of the screen it will take you to some links that give tips on setting up your training log.  Also, the SETTINGS button at top is where you can customize things.  Feel free to post any specific questions you have. 

With regards to your swim question...and I'll defer to our swim expert Scott if he disagrees....but I think you should do whatever will get you to the pool on a consistent basis with minimal travel time.  I can't imagine that a tri-specifi swim coach is going to know anything different about general stroke mechanics than your more local swim coach at the Y. Yes, the tri coach may be able to give some tri-specific instruction on thing applicable to racing (e.g. drafting, open water sighting, etc) but you need to focus on swim mechanics first.  If the Y is closer and cheaper I would go there first.  If you don't think you're getting the type of instruction you need, then you might consider the other coach.

As for the bike question....yes, an indoor trainer at your home would be ideal and there are some ways to deal with the boredom.  But, if you can't go that route, then by all means use all the resources available at the Y.  Spin classes would be one way to get some intensity into your training.  I'm not familiar with the Cybex bike and what it can do, but if you can use them on your own outside of a class that is one tool to use for any type of workout you want to get done.  As with my swim reply above...whatever gets you on the "bike" on a consistent basis is going to be your best bet. 

Scott, don't hesitate to ask questions! :-)

I used the Conconi Test for Cyclists - cyclingfitness.hubpages.com/hub/The-Conconi-Test-for-Cyclists-Calculating-Your-Anaerobic-Threshold (you have to copy and paste the link exactly as it appears, when I tried to place a clickable link in, it resulted in a dead link).  I wasn't sure I could realistically do a 30 min TT.  Not so much because I couldn't go the 30 minutes as I suspect I would have difficulty with the pacing.  I think a couple months down the road the 30 min TT route will be more doable.

Using that test, there was a CLEAR deflection in the heart rate curve at 151.  According to physiologist Francesco Conconi the HR at the deflection point directly correlates to the LT.  I am looking forward to when I can do the 30 min TT to compare the two tests.

For now, I figure it has given me a starting place.  I can dial it in as I move forward.

I used the zone percentages from Joe Friel's webpage - http://blog.trainingpeaks.com/posts/2012/5/4/joe-friels-quick-guide... After I read your post I thought I should revisit the zone calculations I had done so I went to the beginnertriathlete link you gave and then had the beginnertriathlete calculator figure out the zones.  A bit of differance, mainly in zones 2 and 3 (zone 2 increased by 6 bpm, zone 3 increased by 2 bpm).  I like the BT zones a bit better since they are not quite so narrow and zone 2 now straddles aerobic threshold instead of being completely above it.  I think now also, there may be some commonality when different people are talking about zones.  Anyway, my new zones, for anyone interested -

I have a question and I will acknowledge before I ask that the question is more properly directed towards a coach.  Unfortunately, I don’t have one yet.  I have one in mind but we have not finalized anything yet, so in the meantime, since I need to get race entries done before they start selling out, I will ask the question here.

As I have said before, my goal is to qualify for the Ironman World Championships in Kona, October 2014.  Thus far, this year I have entered:

Indianapolis 500 Festival Mini-Marathon (13.1 miles) – Indianapolis, IN.

May 4, 2013

Muncie Sprint Triathlon – Muncie, IN

June 8, 2013

Evergreen Lake Sprint Triathlon – Hudson, IL

July 13, 2013

The general plan is to build from there through the remainder of the season.

Really, I am getting to a question!

My target qualifying race is Ironman Louisville, August 2014.  I am not sure how wise it is to have only one qualification attempt scheduled.  There are other races, Ironman Lake Placid in July and Ironman Madison in September.  I am not sure all three races is a real possibility, at least if I want to have any hope of finishing in Kona (I am thinking that 4 weeks between races is not enough recovery time).  Any comments there will be appreciated.

So, after all that preamble, here is my question – should I consider a full Ironman towards the end of 2013 or maybe a HIM in 2013 and a IM early 2014?  Any opinions or thoughts?

Scott, with your background as a world class swimmer I'm sure you realize that a lot of the things to consider in answering this will be determined by how well your training goes in the next 6 months....you really need to start getting some baseline information from racing so you can judge what your tri potential is.  Given our previous discussions, I don't see this as an issue but it is something to keep in mind.  As far as working out a nutrition strategy, you don't necessarily need to figure that out in an actual Ironman race.  Sweat tests and epic training days/weekends coupled with experience in HIM races can be used to figure some of that out.

Ironman Wisconsin may be out as a potential qualifier if you want to get to Kona in 2014.  Regular entries for the 2013 race are sold out...unless you want to pay $1300 for a charity slot.  IM Wisconsin 2014 has Kona slots available for Kona 2015, not 2014, so it can't be used as a Kona 2014 qualifier. 

You should also note that Ironman St. Croix 70.3 has one Kona slot per age group.  There is serious competition that shows up for that race each year and you have to win your age group to get the slot. The race is held in early May (May 5 this year) so that is one option to consider for 2014.  I actually have a condo reserved for this year's race in St. Croix but I haven't decided if I'm going to enter the race or not...$$$$ is making me lean towards "no".  IM Buffalo Springs 70.3 (late June) also used to have Kona slots but right when I was getting ready to register for it I found out they are no longer offering Kona slots there.

You're right that recovery in just 4 weeks between races would be tough if you aren't a very experienced IM racer.   I did IM Canada and IM Wisconsin 2 weeks apart a couple years ago and I'll never do that again.  'nuff said about that.

Again, a lot depends on how your training goes over the next 6 months....but if you were my athlete I would set up a program to get you ready for a half ironman in late 2013.  I did a half ironman as my 3rd triathlon ever and I didn't even get into the water for my first swim in over 20 years until 2 months before the race, so I know it can be done.  The HIM doesn't even need to be an MDot brand race...there are plenty of independent races out there to check out.  As for 2014, and if you REEEEAAAALLLY don't want to put all of your eggs in the IM Louisville qualifying basket, I personally would try to get one qualifying attempt in earlier in the year.  I would look at IM Texas (May) or IM Coeur D'Alene (June) as other potential races.  I've done Couer d'Alene and its a nice venue....Texas will be very hot (haven't raced there).  

 I've got to get going for the moment so I'll leave it there for now.  I'll ponder a little more and post later if I think of anything else.

First off, I admire your drive.  From Sprint to Kona in two years is a book-worthy goal.  I'm looking forward to watching you pull it off, maybe first-hand perspective as I'm considering  Louisville in 2014 as well.

I'm a back-of-the pack participant, so take my advice with a grain of salt.  Personally, I'd recommend getting at least 1 HIM completed before the end of this year, and probably two more early in 2014 to help prepare for an Iron distance event.  

For me, I thought stepping up to the Half from an Oly was a much harder transition from a physical standpoint.  Stepping up to the full was more of a scheduling challenge in setting aside enough time to train.   

Finally, you may have a hard time getting into a WTC branded Ironman event for 2013.  The late season events (Florida and Arizona) I believe are already sold out.  There are a few hosted by other companies that you might consider in 2013.  Beach-to-Battleship comes to mind, in NC.

I think the single most important thing you can do with respect to swimming is learning proper stroke technique.  If you can do that close to home, so much the better.  At the end of the day however, it should not take more than a few weeks so I would encourage you to go where you have to go to get the instruction so you can perfect your technique.  As to whether that instruction should come from a Tri-Coach or the Y, or the kid down the street for that matter - whomever you decide to utilize as your swim coach/instructor should have a solid background in competitive swimming (they competed for an extended period of time or have coached at an elevated level for an extended period of time).  I imagine there is a Master's swimming program in your general area, you might check in to that.  Most masters programs are more than willing to help newer swimmers achieve their goals.  However, I have to put in my two cents on this, I am in the minority when I say I don't believe you need to perfect all four strokes.  That is not to say you should not learn all four strokes, just that you don't necessarily need to perfect all four strokes.  Freestyle is far and away the fastest and most efficient stoke and is the one you will probably be using in a triathlon.  A masters program is likely going to have you training in all four strokes - fine if you want to compete in swim meets, not so much for a triathlete unless you plan to do butterfly in the swim leg (probably not the best choice).

I have to congratulate you on recognizing "it is time to have someone help me refine my stroke before I lay down too many bad habits through repetition."  Most people wait until the bad habits are engrained into muscle memory and then it takes a much longer time to 'fix' the problems.

Next thing, this goes to how much time in the water as you are learning proper technique.  I would not be in the water any longer than I could maintain PERFECT stroke technique; you will likely fatigue quickly at first as you may be using new muscle groups.  If that is 10 minutes, so be it.  I would start with three times a week - again, each session only lasting as long as you can maintain PERFECT stroke technique.  You want the stroke to become automatic, meaning you don't have to think about it.  In fairly short order, that will begin to happen.  After a couple weeks you can begin to add time/distance and embark on an actual swim training program.

Good luck.

Thank you!  That helps to answer some of my questions.  I was leaning toward a HIM this season and IM early next season.  I think beyond this season, well, that is something I will need to take up with my coach when I get that deal finalized.

You mentioned your third tri was a HIM.  So quick question, do you think building through an Oly before the HIM is a good idea or just go straight to the HIM?

Thank you again!

IM Louisville is still open (as of yesterday) but the more I think about it, the more I am leaning towards a HIM at the end of this year.  I have been looking closely at my planned training, which is designed to get me ready for an IM this year, and I don't think I can realistically do that level of training that quickly - at least not without "breaking something."  I think it will probably not be the best course of action to attempt an IM that I am not fully prepared for and get a DNF or worse.  If I plan an IM early next season, that realistically gives me 14-16 months before the beginning of next season.  Figure 8 weeks to "train to train," another 4-6 months to build, then 6-8 months to directly prepare for the first IM and the timing works.  That also conveniently has me pretty well prepared for a HIM at the end of this season. 

At least that is the tentative plan today.  Now I just need to get my planned training to actually reflect all of that.

I'm a big fan of training via racing.  Although I race a lot throughout the season, I treat most of my races as B or C races and train right thru them without any tapering.  If you race a lot but also try to taper for each of them you will lose valuable training time.  I also try to find Saturday races so that I can get in a nice ride on Sunday.  Obviously, this mindset is for a more experienced triathlete and I wouldn't apply this strategy to a beginner with little athletic background.

I'm assuming you have several Olympic distance races available locally in addition to your sprint races.  I would even search for some early season duathlons to do for fun and to get some experience with dealing with the transition between bike and run.  That second run of the duathlon is always a good reality check as to what your fitness is    I think it would be a good way to go if you incorporate an Olympic distance race before your late season HIM.   You might even consider switching out the second sprint for an Oly if there is an Oly race held in conjunction with the sprint.  Again, see if there are Saturday races available so you don't spend a Saturday trying to totally rest up for a Sunday race....for the more experienced athletes.

Good answer!

I absolutely agree with training via racing.  Back when I was swimming I would only do a full taper for one meet a year - long course national championships.  Short course nationals just got a couple days of reduced training level, not anything near a full taper.

As to my current plans, I don't foresee a taper until the Kona qualifier and then obviously for Kona.

I'm not sure how you're quantifying a "taper", but you do need to periodize your training throughout the year with different levels of volume and intensity. 

You can certainly train through races, I've done it, but you may want to taper for shorter events as well so you learn how your body responds.  There's an art (and science) behind getting it just right, and everyone is a little bit different.

My plan basically follows a 3/1 periodization schedule - 3 week build, 1 week recovery.  That is a real simple description, in reality it is a bit more complex but that gives the general idea.  I don't figure anyone wants to hear about macrocycles, mesocycles, and microcycles.

As to tapering - I only plan to taper for the Kona qualifier next year and for Kona, with one possible exception as I will describe below.  I will ease up on training a couple days before the Mini-Marathon but will train through the sprints.  If I get a HIM onto my schedule near the end of the season I imagine I will ease up for a couple days before that.

Back when I was swimming, I only did what I refer to as a "full taper" for one event a year.  We typically trained with two-a-day workouts and  three-a-days during the summer.  The event I fully tapered for was at the end of the summer.  Three weeks out, we went to two-a days, then two weeks out went to one-a-days.  In addition to less training sessions, we began to reduce the workload during the training.  One week before we would have one EXTREMELY intense training and then dramatically reduce yardage every day from there.  By the day before the event, we weren't doing much more than getting in the pool, swimming a couple warm-up laps, and getting out.  There was a whole nutrition plan that we followed also.

I haven't figured out yet how to properly taper for a triathlon.  I can use my swimming experience as a general guide and I  know how I react to a taper.  I don't know however, how closely my swimming experience will correlate to a triathlon.  That is something I am going to have to figure out.  I may consider tapering for the HIM this season just to see if I respond similarly to how I did back when I was swimming.

We had to do it that way - that final night was when we shaved down.  Seeing as how I didn't do that very often, it made for a long and painful evening. 

A 3/1 cycle is pretty common and the "1" allows the athlete to absorb the training of the previous 3.  Our E3 model of periodization is essentially FOUNDATION -->GENERAL-->SPECIFIC-->PEAK-->TAPER-->RACE    The specifics of what a particular athlete's annual training plan looks like depends on his/her background, time availability, race schedule and goal race distance, among a variety of details that an athlete figures out over time or with the help of a coach.  Most of the beginner athletes on BT would not be able to handle a straight line periodized plan that lasts 18 months.  Physical and psychological fatigue would become issues the beginner will have to deal with.  Scott's situation is much different in that he is used to training for world championship or Olympic type competitions on a long time scale.

Scott, one thing that will need to be assessed when figuring out your taper plan for HIM or IM events is how much recovery you need from high volume and intensity run training since running is a high impact sport and much rougher on your legs versus swimming or biking.  Actually, that would apply to all of your tri training since you don't have the running background.

One thing I want to say is that I hope discussions of high level training don't scare anyone off from participating in our group discussions.  I think having a wide range of experience levels is what makes the group more dynamic, interesting, and FUN.  Went for a downhill ski late this afternoon after my run and I've noticed how much later it is staying light these days...nice!

Ok, here is a question (or maybe two?):  I am trying to plan out my weeks of training for IM.  The program would officially start in Mid February.   I'd like to take one whole day off and preferably Monday after the long run and ride, but looking at all that needs to get accomplished I was wondering if putting the weight training on Monday would be o.k..  Since its not triathlon specific (swim, bike or run).  First, what is the thought on weight training (necessary or not) and second should my day off be completely off or could it contain some nonspecific training?

Thanks!

To piggy-back a bit off the taper questions, I'm entering a recovery week for running; but, just starting to pick up biking again.

Should my recovery weeks for biking and running occur at the same time?  Will I recover enough from running if I'm building my bike endurance and intensity at the same time?

I concede that my issue arises from not following a tri-specific training program at the moment - I won't start that until late March; but, I think I need to work in some low mileage/high intensity bike rides to prepare for an early April Sprint that is two weeks after my Marathon attempt.

Any insight is greatly appreciated.  

I think this is key.  Scott, although you have a pedigree background in athletics, I think it's key that you focus on the fact that how you tapered for swim meets 30 years ago, may not be the ideal way to prepare for triathlons today. 

I just think you need to be realistic about how your body will handle the adaptations it's going to go through over the next few months - and in to 2014.

Two basic shools of thought on weight training - do or don't.  It's definitely a polarizing subject, but for me the biggest take away is that to get faster at SBR you need to focus on SBR.  Weight training will not make you faster in any discipline - you are better off spending that time SBR'ing.

That said, I keep suffering from ITB issues that kills my run training, and I keep telling myself that I will begin to focus on some weight training for general all around strength and the hope that making my body a bit stronger will help with some injury prevention.  And, in turn, if I'm avoiding injuries I can focus on training and getting faster.