Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-CLOSED

51

Calgary, Alberta

Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-CLOSED

Help, I need a translator. What is IMFL, IMTX, NOLA, AG nationals? What is a trigger point?

Edited by ndechant 2013-12-25 5:33 PM

Master

1779

Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-CLOSED

Originally posted by ndechant Help, I need a translator. What is IMFL, IMTX, NOLA, AG nationals? What is a trigger point?

Ironman Florida, Ironman Texas, New Orleans 70.3, Age Group Nationals (USAT Age Group Nationals race)

Trigger point therapy kit - Best $$ that I've ever spent. Two massages would cost you the same as the lower leg kit and the grid- which I highly recommend.

http://www.tptherapy.com/

Trigger point therapy is basically injury prevention. http://www.tptherapy.com/What-are-Trigger-Points.html

When you're old and injury prone (like I am) you need all of the help that you can get.

Edited by Catwoman 2013-12-25 5:42 PM

My Race Log

Master

3058

South Alabama

Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-CLOSED

Chris-I missed that info in your bio as well. My son currently runs XC/distance at the University of Alabama and I'm quite confident he would give anything to break the 4 min/mile mark. To be in the 4 min mile range for the 1500 must be around a 3:43-45? That is still super elite, top of the table in the college ranks. Absolutely smoking fast!

Rene-good to have you with us. One more person to listen to me whine about swimming.

My Race Log

121

Grand Rapids, Michigan

Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-CLOSED

Originally posted by slornow

Chris-I missed that info in your bio as well. My son currently runs XC/distance at the University of Alabama and I'm quite confident he would give anything to break the 4 min/mile mark. To be in the 4 min mile range for the 1500 must be around a 3:43-45? That is still super elite, top of the table in the college ranks. Absolutely smoking fast!

Rene-good to have you with us. One more person to listen to me whine about swimming.

Yeah, it was all good back in the day...but it sure was a long time ago! I ran my first races in twenty years last summer and I told my wife it is really crushing mentally to literally be more than twice as slow in a 5k as the last time I ran one! That will get better this year though, right?!?

OK, so now on to an even bigger weakness than my age and conditioning induced lack of running speed...SWIMMING! I will be starting my forays into the pool next week. What are the thoughts of the group on starting out for someone with no experience at all. Should I get a lesson or two, or is there a video series/books/self training process that anyone recommends? Any lesson I would get in the near future would likely just be a private or semi-private lesson at the Y. Is this going to help to at least get started or do I need to look for better coaching? Or am I better off floundering around on my own with whatever self training is available?

Thanks for any thoughts.

Chris

Master

3058

South Alabama

Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-CLOSED

Originally posted by 43YORook

Originally posted by slornow

Chris-I missed that info in your bio as well. My son currently runs XC/distance at the University of Alabama and I'm quite confident he would give anything to break the 4 min/mile mark. To be in the 4 min mile range for the 1500 must be around a 3:43-45? That is still super elite, top of the table in the college ranks. Absolutely smoking fast!

Rene-good to have you with us. One more person to listen to me whine about swimming.

Yeah, it was all good back in the day...but it sure was a long time ago! I ran my first races in twenty years last summer and I told my wife it is really crushing mentally to literally be more than twice as slow in a 5k as the last time I ran one! That will get better this year though, right?!? OK, so now on to an even bigger weakness than my age and conditioning induced lack of running speed...SWIMMING! I will be starting my forays into the pool next week. What are the thoughts of the group on starting out for someone with no experience at all. Should I get a lesson or two, or is there a video series/books/self training process that anyone recommends? Any lesson I would get in the near future would likely just be a private or semi-private lesson at the Y. Is this going to help to at least get started or do I need to look for better coaching? Or am I better off floundering around on my own with whatever self training is available? Thanks for any thoughts. Chris

Chris-there is hope. I had a 30 year PR this Fall in the 5K. Look around online and you can find a calculator that will give you an age adjusted time. Essentially, takes into account the handicap of age and gives you a time to compare to young/open racers.

Swimming....absolutely get any kind of leesons you can from the beginning. Swimming is so technical it is important to learn how to do it right from the start. I've swam maybe a million yard over the last 3 years and my stroke is pretty ingrained. Very hard to make adjustments now for this old dog. If you run or bike enough you will almost surely get faster. No such guarantee with swimming. Doing alot of bad swimming does not make you faster. Its kind of like golf. Hitting alot of golf balls at the range isn't going to help unless you have a consistent/reproducible swing. Put the time in now with some good instruction in the pool and you will be ahead of most triathletes in the swim..

My Race Log

New user

234

New Hampshire

Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-CLOSED

Originally posted by slornow

Originally posted by 43YORook

Originally posted by slornow

Chris-I missed that info in your bio as well. My son currently runs XC/distance at the University of Alabama and I'm quite confident he would give anything to break the 4 min/mile mark. To be in the 4 min mile range for the 1500 must be around a 3:43-45? That is still super elite, top of the table in the college ranks. Absolutely smoking fast!

Rene-good to have you with us. One more person to listen to me whine about swimming.

Yeah, it was all good back in the day...but it sure was a long time ago! I ran my first races in twenty years last summer and I told my wife it is really crushing mentally to literally be more than twice as slow in a 5k as the last time I ran one! That will get better this year though, right?!? OK, so now on to an even bigger weakness than my age and conditioning induced lack of running speed...SWIMMING! I will be starting my forays into the pool next week. What are the thoughts of the group on starting out for someone with no experience at all. Should I get a lesson or two, or is there a video series/books/self training process that anyone recommends? Any lesson I would get in the near future would likely just be a private or semi-private lesson at the Y. Is this going to help to at least get started or do I need to look for better coaching? Or am I better off floundering around on my own with whatever self training is available? Thanks for any thoughts. Chris

Chris-there is hope. I had a 30 year PR this Fall in the 5K. Look around online and you can find a calculator that will give you an age adjusted time. Essentially, takes into account the handicap of age and gives you a time to compare to young/open racers.

Swimming....absolutely get any kind of leesons you can from the beginning. Swimming is so technical it is important to learn how to do it right from the start. I've swam maybe a million yard over the last 3 years and my stroke is pretty ingrained. Very hard to make adjustments now for this old dog. If you run or bike enough you will almost surely get faster. No such guarantee with swimming. Doing alot of bad swimming does not make you faster. Its kind of like golf. Hitting alot of golf balls at the range isn't going to help unless you have a consistent/reproducible swing. Put the time in now with some good instruction in the pool and you will be ahead of most triathletes in the swim..

Whew, you people are hard to keep up with. I did figure out how to turn email notification on so at least I can follow along with the post. Some great discussion. Don't worry I was very discrete at the family gathering although they probably think I have a bladder infection from all the times I sneaked off to catch up.

I love the golf analogy and struggled to finally play well at that game. I really started to improve after I got some instruction. I need to see someone about my swimming soon as I'm a little frustrated with my progress. Great recommendation Randy. I will say that I like the Swim Smooth website, seems like a good resource. Stuart what do you think about that site?
Scored some yaktrax, running snowshoes(which I've never done before so any tips greatly appreciated.), and a stocking full of GU. Also a nice 4.5 mile run this morning. Best of all the family is all healthy and seemingly happy. I hope you all had a great Holiday!
Now what did you score?

Edited by GoldenSprocket 2013-12-25 9:24 PM

My Race Log

Master

3205

ann arbor, michigan

Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-CLOSED

I agree with the swim smooth site. Excellent.

I would recommend Sheila Taormina's book, Swim Speed Secrets.

I personally believe that Total Immersion is worth looking at if you are truly just learning to swim but it has mixed reviews and it can ingrain some habits that are pretty hard to get rid of.

Getting a couple lessons from a good instructor is priceless. I still pay a lot of money to have someone look at my stroke and give me advice every chance I get. Like Randy, my stroke, with all of its numerous flaws, is fairly set. I keep trying to fix it but it isn't easy.

My Race Log

Member

142

, Georgia

Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-CLOSED

Just caught up on the last two pages of the thread. I spent way too much time sitting around, chatting with friends and family, and eating food the last few days.

I read portions of the discussion involving swimming instruction and wanted to ask how much lessons typically run. I'm just wanting to get an idea of what I'm looking at if I pursue that route.

324

Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-CLOSED

Well, one of my swim buddies has flaked out on me so I'll be off to the pool and treadmill on my own soon.

Looking for opinions (or at least validation!)

I am planning on a half marathon at the beginning of June, and my first Sprint ever at the end of June, or towards the end of July- up in the air at the moment which. I've been running since spring, starting with a C25K, and ended up taking most of Nov. really slow/off since my hip was really unhappy with my overly ambitious running increases. Its been fine since then.

Right now I am working on building up my run mileage and swimming- I've been slowly working on increasing yardage. I'm starting with a swim coach next week, so I assume that'll start ramping up with better form.

I'm not doing any biking right now- combination of no available trainer for indoors (at the moment), it being winter in Vermont for outdoors, and working on the other two sports.

I'm thinking about just focusing on building up running and swimming for the next two months or so, maybe a little longer depending on how long hard winter lasts this year, and the getting the bike back out once I can ride the roads reasonably again. That'd give me 3 months or more to build up the bike in the spring before my first sprint. Sound reasonable? I'm not looking to do anything other than finish strong for me for the Sprint. and the half marathon for that matter.

Veteran

976

New Hampshire

Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-CLOSED

Originally posted by PhoenixM

I read portions of the discussion involving swimming instruction and wanted to ask how much lessons typically run. I'm just wanting to get an idea of what I'm looking at if I pursue that route.

I've seen lots of variation depending on what you want out of it. My local YMCA has a weekly class (at some totally unmanageable time for me like 10 am on Wednesdays) that ran for 8 weeks and was $175. It was classes, so there were others in pool with you, but there were 3 levels (beg, int, adv) each in a different class. $20/lesson in that case is really inexpensive compared to what I've seen. Private lessons at the same YMCA were $156 for a set of 3 I believe. Private lessons with a tri specific coach (in my area) to come to your pool and give you feed back range from $50-100 per session depending on if you want video analysis, how many lessons you sign up for, etc. Most pools/establishments will publish some type of info regarding prices on their websites.

My Race Log

Veteran

976

New Hampshire

Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-CLOSED

Originally posted by el penguino

Well, one of my swim buddies has flaked out on me so I'll be off to the pool and treadmill on my own soon.

Looking for opinions (or at least validation!)

I am planning on a half marathon at the beginning of June, and my first Sprint ever at the end of June, or towards the end of July- up in the air at the moment which. I've been running since spring, starting with a C25K, and ended up taking most of Nov. really slow/off since my hip was really unhappy with my overly ambitious running increases. Its been fine since then.

Right now I am working on building up my run mileage and swimming- I've been slowly working on increasing yardage. I'm starting with a swim coach next week, so I assume that'll start ramping up with better form.

I'm not doing any biking right now- combination of no available trainer for indoors (at the moment), it being winter in Vermont for outdoors, and working on the other two sports.

I'm thinking about just focusing on building up running and swimming for the next two months or so, maybe a little longer depending on how long hard winter lasts this year, and the getting the bike back out once I can ride the roads reasonably again. That'd give me 3 months or more to build up the bike in the spring before my first sprint. Sound reasonable? I'm not looking to do anything other than finish strong for me for the Sprint. and the half marathon for that matter.

Nancy, I think that plan sounds fine. At least in my experience, a first race of any type/distance was more about learning to race. You put numbers in your head but 1 hr (or 30 minutes or 10 minutes) into the race everything can change. If you build up your run and swim for the next few months and get confident in those areas you should be able to bike heavy once the winter breaks and keep up with the run and swim. Being confident in the swim is huge because it sets the tone for the rest of the race, especially your first if you don't really know what comes next. Then if you have a HM under your belt the 3+ miles for the run will seem like nothing.

My Race Log

Master

3058

South Alabama

Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-CLOSED

Originally posted by jonD81

Originally posted by el penguino Well, one of my swim buddies has flaked out on me so I'll be off to the pool and treadmill on my own soon. Looking for opinions (or at least validation!) I am planning on a half marathon at the beginning of June, and my first Sprint ever at the end of June, or towards the end of July- up in the air at the moment which. I've been running since spring, starting with a C25K, and ended up taking most of Nov. really slow/off since my hip was really unhappy with my overly ambitious running increases. Its been fine since then. Right now I am working on building up my run mileage and swimming- I've been slowly working on increasing yardage. I'm starting with a swim coach next week, so I assume that'll start ramping up with better form. I'm not doing any biking right now- combination of no available trainer for indoors (at the moment), it being winter in Vermont for outdoors, and working on the other two sports. I'm thinking about just focusing on building up running and swimming for the next two months or so, maybe a little longer depending on how long hard winter lasts this year, and the getting the bike back out once I can ride the roads reasonably again. That'd give me 3 months or more to build up the bike in the spring before my first sprint. Sound reasonable? I'm not looking to do anything other than finish strong for me for the Sprint. and the half marathon for that matter.

Nancy, I think that plan sounds fine. At least in my experience, a first race of any type/distance was more about learning to race. You put numbers in your head but 1 hr (or 30 minutes or 10 minutes) into the race everything can change. If you build up your run and swim for the next few months and get confident in those areas you should be able to bike heavy once the winter breaks and keep up with the run and swim. Being confident in the swim is huge because it sets the tone for the rest of the race, especially your first if you don't really know what comes next. Then if you have a HM under your belt the 3+ miles for the run will seem like nothing.

I agree with Jon. If you are trying to finish the sprint you will be fine. Ramping up on the bike is lower impact so you can do it without compromising your swim/run. Of course, if you need an easy day away from the run you could do a spin class (might not be so "easy") or ride a stationary bike. Might help mentally knowing that you are still doing some biking.

My Race Log

324

Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-CLOSED

Originally posted by slornow

Originally posted by jonD81

Originally posted by el penguino Well, one of my swim buddies has flaked out on me so I'll be off to the pool and treadmill on my own soon. Looking for opinions (or at least validation!) I am planning on a half marathon at the beginning of June, and my first Sprint ever at the end of June, or towards the end of July- up in the air at the moment which. I've been running since spring, starting with a C25K, and ended up taking most of Nov. really slow/off since my hip was really unhappy with my overly ambitious running increases. Its been fine since then. Right now I am working on building up my run mileage and swimming- I've been slowly working on increasing yardage. I'm starting with a swim coach next week, so I assume that'll start ramping up with better form. I'm not doing any biking right now- combination of no available trainer for indoors (at the moment), it being winter in Vermont for outdoors, and working on the other two sports. I'm thinking about just focusing on building up running and swimming for the next two months or so, maybe a little longer depending on how long hard winter lasts this year, and the getting the bike back out once I can ride the roads reasonably again. That'd give me 3 months or more to build up the bike in the spring before my first sprint. Sound reasonable? I'm not looking to do anything other than finish strong for me for the Sprint. and the half marathon for that matter.

Nancy, I think that plan sounds fine. At least in my experience, a first race of any type/distance was more about learning to race. You put numbers in your head but 1 hr (or 30 minutes or 10 minutes) into the race everything can change. If you build up your run and swim for the next few months and get confident in those areas you should be able to bike heavy once the winter breaks and keep up with the run and swim. Being confident in the swim is huge because it sets the tone for the rest of the race, especially your first if you don't really know what comes next. Then if you have a HM under your belt the 3+ miles for the run will seem like nothing.

I agree with Jon. If you are trying to finish the sprint you will be fine. Ramping up on the bike is lower impact so you can do it without compromising your swim/run. Of course, if you need an easy day away from the run you could do a spin class (might not be so "easy") or ride a stationary bike. Might help mentally knowing that you are still doing some biking.

Thanks to both of you for the input! I feel like I am in a decent place- none of the sports really worry me, more making sure I'm ready for the distance and the combination. Of course, having never done any kind of mass start swim, it'll be interesting to see how that goes! I'm generally pretty comfortable in the water, and really comfortable at being a BOPer as I have always been a bit of a plodder when it comes to speed. Alright, off to feed the kiddos and then to swimming!

Master

3205

ann arbor, michigan

Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-CLOSED

Originally posted by 43YORook

So, I said yesterday that I have no real race plans for this year yet except for the very specific “I need to do some triathlons”. My question is kind of multipart. First, is it remotely realistic to even consider doing a HIM by late summer, early fall or should I focus on shorter distances for this year and not add an HIM until the following spring? Further, based on my complete lack of swimming background, should I be not even thinking about race schedules yet until we even know if I float or sink? Finally, if it makes sense to begin planning a race schedule for 2014 and build my training around that, what are some thoughts about what that might look like?

I would be of the opinion that you can't get in the water soon enough. You need to know how much work getting your swim up to speed is going to be. With your knee injury/surgery recovery, this would seem to be the perfect time to start working on your aerobic engine in the pool. I suspect that with a few lessons you will be able to make good progress in swimming (at least to the point where you can complete the distance). With the commitment to work on it I think most people can complete a HIM swim with 4-6 months of work. It might not be pretty or fast but it can be done. But whether it happens or not is up to you and how hard you are willing to work.

None of us know how your knee is going to recover. With that being said, planning to do a HIM (and signing up for it) is a great way to really make sure that you work toward the goal. For me, the "fear" of the consequences of not preparing appropriately is a very good motivator. I would assume (scary word) that you will be able to make the swim happen with some diligent work. I will also assume that your knee/body will hold up to the bike distances. This will be another way to get a lot of low-impact, high-yield aerobic work. The run is the X-factor after knee surgery. If the knee does not come around, most races offer an aquabike (swim, bike, no run) option. Even if they don't offer it, you can make your own aquabike by strategically dropping out after the bike. By having this as your backup plan you will be making significant inroads toward your plan of doing a triathlon so when your knee is ready, you will be too.

So, to answer. Yes. I would start planning a 2014 race schedule. I would look for an early to mid summer sprint, followed in about 4-6 weeks by an Olympic and then if your heart is set on it, a 70.3 distance race pushed as late as you can find one that works for you. I would then do a HIM based plan, focused on being ready for that race but trusting that it will get you in to shape for the two earlier races. If the knee is not ready at any point you can fall back on the aquabike option. This keeps you involved and moving toward your goals.

Sound reasonable?

My Race Log

Master

3205

ann arbor, michigan

Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-CLOSED

Originally posted by slornow

Originally posted by jonD81

Originally posted by el penguino Well, one of my swim buddies has flaked out on me so I'll be off to the pool and treadmill on my own soon. Looking for opinions (or at least validation!) I am planning on a half marathon at the beginning of June, and my first Sprint ever at the end of June, or towards the end of July- up in the air at the moment which. I've been running since spring, starting with a C25K, and ended up taking most of Nov. really slow/off since my hip was really unhappy with my overly ambitious running increases. Its been fine since then. Right now I am working on building up my run mileage and swimming- I've been slowly working on increasing yardage. I'm starting with a swim coach next week, so I assume that'll start ramping up with better form. I'm not doing any biking right now- combination of no available trainer for indoors (at the moment), it being winter in Vermont for outdoors, and working on the other two sports. I'm thinking about just focusing on building up running and swimming for the next two months or so, maybe a little longer depending on how long hard winter lasts this year, and the getting the bike back out once I can ride the roads reasonably again. That'd give me 3 months or more to build up the bike in the spring before my first sprint. Sound reasonable? I'm not looking to do anything other than finish strong for me for the Sprint. and the half marathon for that matter.

Nancy, I think that plan sounds fine. At least in my experience, a first race of any type/distance was more about learning to race. You put numbers in your head but 1 hr (or 30 minutes or 10 minutes) into the race everything can change. If you build up your run and swim for the next few months and get confident in those areas you should be able to bike heavy once the winter breaks and keep up with the run and swim. Being confident in the swim is huge because it sets the tone for the rest of the race, especially your first if you don't really know what comes next. Then if you have a HM under your belt the 3+ miles for the run will seem like nothing.

I agree with Jon. If you are trying to finish the sprint you will be fine. Ramping up on the bike is lower impact so you can do it without compromising your swim/run. Of course, if you need an easy day away from the run you could do a spin class (might not be so "easy") or ride a stationary bike. Might help mentally knowing that you are still doing some biking.

The only caveat I would put on this is the "don't forget to bike" part.

My first two seasons I hardly biked at all. I ran a lot and planned on the aerobic benefit of running being enough to get me through the bike. I made it to the finish line but when I moved up to the Olympic distance, the 24.9 miles on the bike was miserable for me with no bike volume to fall back on. It really is a sport that requires you to train in all three sports. There is crossover from one to the other but you have to work on all three disciplines.

Not saying you were going to ignore the bike, I just wanted to relay my foolish experiences from the beginning......

My Race Log

Master

3205

ann arbor, michigan

Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-CLOSED

Lessons:

I currently pay $75/hour for a woman that is worth every penny. Steep but worth it to me.

For good individualized coaching/lessons, the cheapest I have seen is about $40/hour and the priciest available locally is what I am paying now.

I have seen group sessions for as little as $20/hour but that is more like planned workouts and pool access with out much in the way of coaching/stroke analysis.

Sorry. I won't fill the forum with three or four posts every time but that sure does seem to be my MO when I get started

It seems easier to me to reply to individual questions with discrete posts but I am happy to combine them all in to one if that would make it easier to digest.

My Race Log

Champion

7163

Verona WI--Ironman Bike Country!

Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-CLOSED

Originally posted by jonD81

Originally posted by PhoenixM I read portions of the discussion involving swimming instruction and wanted to ask how much lessons typically run. I'm just wanting to get an idea of what I'm looking at if I pursue that route.

I've seen lots of variation depending on what you want out of it. My local YMCA has a weekly class (at some totally unmanageable time for me like 10 am on Wednesdays) that ran for 8 weeks and was $175. It was classes, so there were others in pool with you, but there were 3 levels (beg, int, adv) each in a different class. $20/lesson in that case is really inexpensive compared to what I've seen. Private lessons at the same YMCA were $156 for a set of 3 I believe. Private lessons with a tri specific coach (in my area) to come to your pool and give you feed back range from $50-100 per session depending on if you want video analysis, how many lessons you sign up for, etc. Most pools/establishments will publish some type of info regarding prices on their websites.

Private swim lessons with a good coach are roughly $45 per 30 min lesson around here. Double it for an hour. If you want video taping, it'll be at least $150 for it and a Dartfish analysis (probably overkill if you are just learning). I typically start with an hour so they can see me swim and then switch to 30' for each lesson thereafter.

I have really struggled with swimming and have used multiple coaches/instructors over time. While I am sure all of them were good coaches, some explain technique changes better than others. You need to find what resonates with you. If you don't like what you're getting don't be afraid to try another one.

My Race Log

324

Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-CLOSED

Originally posted by wannabefaster

Originally posted by slornow

The only caveat I would put on this is the "don't forget to bike" part.

My first two seasons I hardly biked at all. I ran a lot and planned on the aerobic benefit of running being enough to get me through the bike. I made it to the finish line but when I moved up to the Olympic distance, the 24.9 miles on the bike was miserable for me with no bike volume to fall back on. It really is a sport that requires you to train in all three sports. There is crossover from one to the other but you have to work on all three disciplines.

Not saying you were going to ignore the bike, I just wanted to relay my foolish experiences from the beginning......

I won't ignore the bike, just wait to get on it once the weather gets more reasonable, promise!!!

Extreme Veteran

990

Collierville, Tennessee

Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-CLOSED

Originally posted by wannabefaster

Originally posted by slornow

Originally posted by jonD81

Originally posted by el penguino Well, one of my swim buddies has flaked out on me so I'll be off to the pool and treadmill on my own soon. Looking for opinions (or at least validation!) I am planning on a half marathon at the beginning of June, and my first Sprint ever at the end of June, or towards the end of July- up in the air at the moment which. I've been running since spring, starting with a C25K, and ended up taking most of Nov. really slow/off since my hip was really unhappy with my overly ambitious running increases. Its been fine since then. Right now I am working on building up my run mileage and swimming- I've been slowly working on increasing yardage. I'm starting with a swim coach next week, so I assume that'll start ramping up with better form. I'm not doing any biking right now- combination of no available trainer for indoors (at the moment), it being winter in Vermont for outdoors, and working on the other two sports. I'm thinking about just focusing on building up running and swimming for the next two months or so, maybe a little longer depending on how long hard winter lasts this year, and the getting the bike back out once I can ride the roads reasonably again. That'd give me 3 months or more to build up the bike in the spring before my first sprint. Sound reasonable? I'm not looking to do anything other than finish strong for me for the Sprint. and the half marathon for that matter.

Nancy, I think that plan sounds fine. At least in my experience, a first race of any type/distance was more about learning to race. You put numbers in your head but 1 hr (or 30 minutes or 10 minutes) into the race everything can change. If you build up your run and swim for the next few months and get confident in those areas you should be able to bike heavy once the winter breaks and keep up with the run and swim. Being confident in the swim is huge because it sets the tone for the rest of the race, especially your first if you don't really know what comes next. Then if you have a HM under your belt the 3+ miles for the run will seem like nothing.

I agree with Jon. If you are trying to finish the sprint you will be fine. Ramping up on the bike is lower impact so you can do it without compromising your swim/run. Of course, if you need an easy day away from the run you could do a spin class (might not be so "easy") or ride a stationary bike. Might help mentally knowing that you are still doing some biking.

The only caveat I would put on this is the "don't forget to bike" part.

My first two seasons I hardly biked at all. I ran a lot and planned on the aerobic benefit of running being enough to get me through the bike. I made it to the finish line but when I moved up to the Olympic distance, the 24.9 miles on the bike was miserable for me with no bike volume to fall back on. It really is a sport that requires you to train in all three sports. There is crossover from one to the other but you have to work on all three disciplines.

Not saying you were going to ignore the bike, I just wanted to relay my foolish experiences from the beginning......

I'd second this. As I've gotten into triathlon more over the past couple years, I've seen that triathlon races really do seem like bike races...with a swim warm-up and a run afterwards. Whenever you look at results, you have to be pretty amazing to make a big dent in the swim or run, but if you can bike well, you're almost always going to do well. Also, it's not necessarily just speed, but how much a given speed takes a toll on you. Now, as I say this, I definitely swim and run more than I bike: I really don't like the trainer. But that's just my two cents...

My Race Log

Member

836

North Augusta, South Carolina

Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-CLOSED

I'll 2nd getting a swim specific coach for a handful of individual lessons. I learned how to swim back in the 1970s, but had never had any need to swim further from the middle of the deep end (after jumping off the diving board) to the ladder before this year. I went to the Y and started swimming laps and started having should pain. I then contacted a local tri coach who was also a collegiate swimmer. I paid for 4 30-minute lessons for $120. We met once/week at 5:15 a.m. for 4 weeks. At the beginning of each lesson, he watched me swim for a few minutes, then gave me drills to work on something specific. We worked from body/head position and roll to catch/pull to breathing. It was the best $120 I invested. I have a long ways to go still with regards to my swimming, but I'm much further ahead with the lessons.

Had to drop my 'old man' off at the vet this morning for another ACTH Stim test (he has Cushing's disease and we changed his medication 3 months ago, so need to make sure we're not destroying his adrenals). After drop off got a good 45 minute strength workout in, am going to put together a clothing donation for one final tax deduction for the year, then run 4 miles on the Greeneway which is on my way to picking T.C. back up at the vet's office.

I'm really enjoying my vacation time...I'm much more committed to my training when I don't have to work, grade a gazillion essays, etc. I'm sure that Jamie, who also teaches English, can commiserate with my essay grading hell from time to time. I wish there were a way to mark essays while on the bike trainer. Misery loves company, you know?

My Race Log

Member

2098

Simsbury, Connecticut

Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-CLOSED

Another vote for swim lessons! I only had a few but it was enough for me to get some tips on my stroke and give me the confidence I needed by hearing from a professional that I'm a "superstar!!" (LOL His words)

I also got the Swim Secrets book for the holidays so I'm ready to jump into that one too.

Of course......I slept in this am and skipped the pool so I'm off to a great start

My Race Log

Extreme Veteran

1190

Silicon Valley

Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-CLOSED

Chris absolutely get some lessons. Swimming is more about form and rhythm than strength. Those who have been in this group before had heard me say on more than one occasion, the only thing you get my trying to muscle through a swim is tired. Get help on your form. Although they are not directly transferable if you are in good cardio shape from your running and riding, improved form will yield the biggest improvement by far.

Kevin, not familiar with Swim Smooth but will check it out and let you know what I think.

I went for a 3 mile walk this morning (cane assisted) and then a 10 minute power walk on crutches. My PT has we doing the power walk 3x/day just for 10 minutes. He wants me to use the crutches for form reasons. With the cane I tend to lean a bit which he does not want to become habit. It seems to be helping with my strength as well.

Next week I start an upper body routine designed by my PT. Not sure when I can begin to actually train but I will do what I can until I can do what I want.

Edited by Stuartap 2013-12-26 1:10 PM

121

Grand Rapids, Michigan

Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-CLOSED

Originally posted by wannabefaster

Originally posted by 43YORook

So, I said yesterday that I have no real race plans for this year yet except for the very specific “I need to do some triathlons”. My question is kind of multipart. First, is it remotely realistic to even consider doing a HIM by late summer, early fall or should I focus on shorter distances for this year and not add an HIM until the following spring? Further, based on my complete lack of swimming background, should I be not even thinking about race schedules yet until we even know if I float or sink? Finally, if it makes sense to begin planning a race schedule for 2014 and build my training around that, what are some thoughts about what that might look like?

I would be of the opinion that you can't get in the water soon enough. You need to know how much work getting your swim up to speed is going to be. With your knee injury/surgery recovery, this would seem to be the perfect time to start working on your aerobic engine in the pool. I suspect that with a few lessons you will be able to make good progress in swimming (at least to the point where you can complete the distance). With the commitment to work on it I think most people can complete a HIM swim with 4-6 months of work. It might not be pretty or fast but it can be done. But whether it happens or not is up to you and how hard you are willing to work.

None of us know how your knee is going to recover. With that being said, planning to do a HIM (and signing up for it) is a great way to really make sure that you work toward the goal. For me, the "fear" of the consequences of not preparing appropriately is a very good motivator. I would assume (scary word) that you will be able to make the swim happen with some diligent work. I will also assume that your knee/body will hold up to the bike distances. This will be another way to get a lot of low-impact, high-yield aerobic work. The run is the X-factor after knee surgery. If the knee does not come around, most races offer an aquabike (swim, bike, no run) option. Even if they don't offer it, you can make your own aquabike by strategically dropping out after the bike. By having this as your backup plan you will be making significant inroads toward your plan of doing a triathlon so when your knee is ready, you will be too.

So, to answer. Yes. I would start planning a 2014 race schedule. I would look for an early to mid summer sprint, followed in about 4-6 weeks by an Olympic and then if your heart is set on it, a 70.3 distance race pushed as late as you can find one that works for you. I would then do a HIM based plan, focused on being ready for that race but trusting that it will get you in to shape for the two earlier races. If the knee is not ready at any point you can fall back on the aquabike option. This keeps you involved and moving toward your goals.

Sound reasonable?

Very reasonable. Thank you for the input Jason, that is exactly what I was looking for and honestly what I was hoping to hear. Maybe foolishly but I'm not too worried about my knee holding up to the run. I have had a menisectomy before and recovered really quickly. I'm already up and about with minimal swelling and no real pain. Never even had to take anything other than a few ibuprofens after the surgery at all. Also, I ran two half marathons this past year on minimal training and I plan to be much smarter about this run ramp up and slowly increasing distance on the run while focusing much more on the swim and bike this year. Hopefully, all will help to minmize injury as I transistion to triathlon this year.

I did go to the Y today and scheduled a couple lessons to have someone help me get started on the swimming. The earliest I could get started was early next week and the person they recommended doesn't have a lot of coaching background but was a collegiate swimmer at a local university, so I'm sure he'll be able to help me at least get going. From there, we'll see...

Thanks again for the feedback!

Chris

121

Grand Rapids, Michigan

Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-CLOSED

Well it seems unanimous!! I appreciate everyone's feedback on the swim lessons and i did indeed get signed up for some today. I will let everyone know how they are going once I get started next week. After the lessons, I am committed to swimming Monday, Wednesday and Friday mornings before heading to the office and hopefully one weekend swim day as well. Hopefully this will be enough to start to show some improvement over the winter. I will look up some of those swim programs everyone mentioned as well.

As for biking, I do have KK trainer that I actually don't mind riding but have never really done so with any specific focus or plan...just riding for the sake of riding and sweating! I will be putting a few short sessions in on that over the upcoming days, mostly to assess progress on the knee (and because I'm going CRAZY not being able to do anything!). Starting next week I will be looking at something more structured as far as my training time. I have been reading about Trainer Road and may bite the bullet on that as something to keep my busy while there are two feet of snow outside.

The other thing I have been working through the last couple days in preparation for getting started is how to upload workouts to my training log here. I’m not sure I have anything configured properly so we will see how that goes. I don’t have any type of power meter for my bike or anything, just the heart rate monitor that came with the Garmin 310xt. How exactly do I go about logging workouts that really have no distance? Is it just based on time on the trainer and distance in the pool?

Thanks everyone again for all the feedback and recommendations…much appreciated.

Chris

Extreme Veteran

1190

Silicon Valley

Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-CLOSED

So I checked out Swim Smooth and here are some preliminary thoughts on the site. I will dig in more but wanted to give you my first thoughts. I went to the intermediate section figuring most here would likely fall into that category. I have only touched a few sections but so far…I Love It!

1) LOVED the section on kicking. I have mentioned that the kick is not primarily propulsion which they say for triathletes. Also if you look at the videos on an effective kick you will note that they demonstrate a proper kick as the person is sitting, ostensibly kicking on his back. I am a BIG fan of doing most of your kick work on your back, hands locked fully outstretched above your head. This method promotes a short powerful kick and resists any tendency to drop or bend the knees. NOT laying on a kickboard.

2) Solid section on breathing. Focus on the exhale, keep your head still when not breathing (not sure it will make you dizzy but certainly wasted motion), and learn to ‘breath in the pocket’. If you can find that pocket and trust that you will not swallow water your body roll and head movement will be a fraction of what it is if you can’t. New swimmers tend to not trust the pocket so they over roll or lift their head. Practice it and know the faster you are moving the better the pocket. Their ‘don’ts’ are spot on.

3) A section on Rhythm and Timing… Hallelujah! How many times have you heard me say this? I also like that they don’t preach the fastest stroke rate you can find. It is about power and efficiency.

As I go through more I will post on what I like or don’t think so much about. That said, what I have seen so far is solid. I would have no issue sending someone to this site.

Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-CLOSED (Page 6)

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