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Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - CLOSED (Page 6)
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 2014-01-25 5:41 AM in reply to: bswcpa |
Extreme Veteran  868    Racine, Wisconsin |  Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPENOriginally posted by bswcpa Oh and FYI to DIRK and JOANNE - Wisconsin Brick Adventure just posted the dates they're doing the weekend - it's August 1-3. That's later than I was hoping but it's still doable for me, I believe.
Thanks i did see this. I will have to see how this will fit into my schedules and seeing as Racine is a couple weeks before this may work! |
| 2014-01-25 5:49 AM in reply to: JeffY |
Extreme Veteran 868 Racine, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN Originally posted by JeffY Originally posted by DirkP I had a full day yesterday. I did the whole SBR for my workouts but that hadn't been the plan. Laiken came over to the house of Thursday night and since I don't get to see her nearly as much since she moved out I thought I could skip that night and add it to my Friday plan. Anyway, I swam a 4x500 yesterday morning and checked my data for consistency during the swim. I swam within 3 strokes total for all 4 of my 500's yesterday morning (195, 197, 196, 197, fastest time was 7:15). This can be important to help each person find a solid rhythm in their swimming. Obviously the Garmin 910 helps find this for me but there are other options such as the Finis Swimsense, etc. I quickly compared workouts from the past and on Aug 17, 2012, I found some 500's where I swam 217, 224, 234 for total strokes. Very inconsistent. My times were significantly slower for this particular swim too, so a swim fitness has obviously developed as well (8:07 was the fastest that day). Part of the inconsistencies are related to the additional length of time for each set but the pattern of poor stroking is apparent. If I were more consistent with my stroke count my times would have been much closer. With that in mind, how about a project for everyone? For those with the Garmin 910 or other watches that have the capability, begin to examine stroke count a little more closely over some of the longer sets you're completing. Try to find consistencies and inconsistencies for these swim and attempt to figure out why they exist. A large reduction in stroke count could be from over-gliding (I found one of those in my log too) and a much higher count may be from short, rapid stroking which tires you out more quickly. Each person has a sweet spot that will be based on overall height, arm length and fitness, to name a few, but you should be able to find it over time. If you don't have a watch, try to count stokes for every 100 and see what type of consistency you have through the entire workout. You don't have to remember all of the info and write it down later, just try yo compare the 100's as you're swimming. For instance, if you swim one interval at 45 strokes and another at 40 or 50 you can begin to make some interpretations with this information. This can be just as useful to you as the watch! You may not have the visible data to back this up but the data exists nonetheless, just in your mind. If no watch is available make sure you log as much mental data as possible so you can refer back to it later. NOTE: The stroke count I have used is for one arm only. The watch does not count both sides, nor does it multiply data to reflect both arms. Dirk, that's great swimming. I appreciate your encouragement to the group to think about, and prioritize, their swim training. My best 500 in a race, off the blocks, is only in the neighborhood of 7:18, I think. But then again, we aren't surprised you dominate me in the swim! On that swim front though...I've been showing sustained improvement in my swimming. I'm finding that I can finally (after what? 6 years?) hold threshold in the water for a while. I've always suffered with going into oxygen debt nearly right away. It's just got to do with me learning to relax the muscles in my chest/diaphragm/throat and breath freely. That's never been easy because it means NOT protecting my airway in the event I take in water. It's hard to overcome that instinct, but I can't breath effectively otherwise. I am also learning to maintain a strong catch and as long as I think about it I can maintain that form. It's still not automatic yet, but I can maintain it when I am focusing. It's getting a grip on the water from the moment my wrist tips in to the catch up front. And it's quite a grip too! I can now grab the water with more 'traction' than I have muscles to yank with. Another component is keeping that press on the water even past my hip for a little extra acceleration in the moment before my other hand begins it's catch. I was doing this Wednesday and swimming with a tempo and exertion that I would call warm-up level and clocked a 1:30 (Yards), so I was encouraged. I'm going to try to swim that way at practice tomorrow even though we will be racing ourselves through intervals. It will be an important discipline for me. On the subject of stroke rate. I wonder if it's not a little bit like pedal cadence on the bike? It's possible to put out the same power on the bike in a range of gears by adjusting the pedal cadence to match. Since a shorter stroke uses less energy than a longer stroke, could there be a range there where efficiency is perhaps close to equivalent at different stroke rates? For instance, I keep hearing that open water swimming favors a shorter, faster stroke rhythm than pool swimming. And it's obvious to me that shorter swimmers stroke shorter, but faster and ultimately equal the speed of taller swimmers. If I'm right in theory, then all that means is that we don't all need to feel compelled to get the smallest stroke count possible. I actually find myself increasing my stroke rate when I'm getting really gassed because I need to breath faster, so I need that breathing cycle to come around quicker! So I actually get the oxygen I need by shortening my pull a few inches. That might be bad...but maybe not? I finally got the book swim speed secret and she suggests visualizing a brick wall underneath you that you are pulling yourself over, that has been huge for me with the catch and pull. |
| 2014-01-25 5:49 AM in reply to: JeffY |
Extreme Veteran 868 Racine, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN Originally posted by JeffY Originally posted by DirkP I had a full day yesterday. I did the whole SBR for my workouts but that hadn't been the plan. Laiken came over to the house of Thursday night and since I don't get to see her nearly as much since she moved out I thought I could skip that night and add it to my Friday plan. Anyway, I swam a 4x500 yesterday morning and checked my data for consistency during the swim. I swam within 3 strokes total for all 4 of my 500's yesterday morning (195, 197, 196, 197, fastest time was 7:15). This can be important to help each person find a solid rhythm in their swimming. Obviously the Garmin 910 helps find this for me but there are other options such as the Finis Swimsense, etc. I quickly compared workouts from the past and on Aug 17, 2012, I found some 500's where I swam 217, 224, 234 for total strokes. Very inconsistent. My times were significantly slower for this particular swim too, so a swim fitness has obviously developed as well (8:07 was the fastest that day). Part of the inconsistencies are related to the additional length of time for each set but the pattern of poor stroking is apparent. If I were more consistent with my stroke count my times would have been much closer. With that in mind, how about a project for everyone? For those with the Garmin 910 or other watches that have the capability, begin to examine stroke count a little more closely over some of the longer sets you're completing. Try to find consistencies and inconsistencies for these swim and attempt to figure out why they exist. A large reduction in stroke count could be from over-gliding (I found one of those in my log too) and a much higher count may be from short, rapid stroking which tires you out more quickly. Each person has a sweet spot that will be based on overall height, arm length and fitness, to name a few, but you should be able to find it over time. If you don't have a watch, try to count stokes for every 100 and see what type of consistency you have through the entire workout. You don't have to remember all of the info and write it down later, just try yo compare the 100's as you're swimming. For instance, if you swim one interval at 45 strokes and another at 40 or 50 you can begin to make some interpretations with this information. This can be just as useful to you as the watch! You may not have the visible data to back this up but the data exists nonetheless, just in your mind. If no watch is available make sure you log as much mental data as possible so you can refer back to it later. NOTE: The stroke count I have used is for one arm only. The watch does not count both sides, nor does it multiply data to reflect both arms. Dirk, that's great swimming. I appreciate your encouragement to the group to think about, and prioritize, their swim training. My best 500 in a race, off the blocks, is only in the neighborhood of 7:18, I think. But then again, we aren't surprised you dominate me in the swim! On that swim front though...I've been showing sustained improvement in my swimming. I'm finding that I can finally (after what? 6 years?) hold threshold in the water for a while. I've always suffered with going into oxygen debt nearly right away. It's just got to do with me learning to relax the muscles in my chest/diaphragm/throat and breath freely. That's never been easy because it means NOT protecting my airway in the event I take in water. It's hard to overcome that instinct, but I can't breath effectively otherwise. I am also learning to maintain a strong catch and as long as I think about it I can maintain that form. It's still not automatic yet, but I can maintain it when I am focusing. It's getting a grip on the water from the moment my wrist tips in to the catch up front. And it's quite a grip too! I can now grab the water with more 'traction' than I have muscles to yank with. Another component is keeping that press on the water even past my hip for a little extra acceleration in the moment before my other hand begins it's catch. I was doing this Wednesday and swimming with a tempo and exertion that I would call warm-up level and clocked a 1:30 (Yards), so I was encouraged. I'm going to try to swim that way at practice tomorrow even though we will be racing ourselves through intervals. It will be an important discipline for me. On the subject of stroke rate. I wonder if it's not a little bit like pedal cadence on the bike? It's possible to put out the same power on the bike in a range of gears by adjusting the pedal cadence to match. Since a shorter stroke uses less energy than a longer stroke, could there be a range there where efficiency is perhaps close to equivalent at different stroke rates? For instance, I keep hearing that open water swimming favors a shorter, faster stroke rhythm than pool swimming. And it's obvious to me that shorter swimmers stroke shorter, but faster and ultimately equal the speed of taller swimmers. If I'm right in theory, then all that means is that we don't all need to feel compelled to get the smallest stroke count possible. I actually find myself increasing my stroke rate when I'm getting really gassed because I need to breath faster, so I need that breathing cycle to come around quicker! So I actually get the oxygen I need by shortening my pull a few inches. That might be bad...but maybe not? I finally got the book swim speed secret and she suggests visualizing a brick wall underneath you that you are pulling yourself over, that has been huge for me with the catch and pull. |
| 2014-01-25 6:02 AM in reply to: JonnyVero |
Master 3486  Fort Wayne | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN Originally posted by JonnyVero Hi Junkies! I've been trying to run 3 days a week even though the cough has not gone away. I did get to spend a little time on a bike this last Sunday too. I still haven't gone to see a doctor about the cough yet. I'm really reluctant to spend the money to have a dr. say "its a cold, go rest" The plan is to run the 2 mile Frosty Fun Run tomorrow morning with some friends so we'll see how I do in that situation. Enjoy the run! .........It's not a cold after 2-3 weeks. BUT, I probably would be resistant to going to the doc too. I am not much for going to them for any kind of illness. Injuries are a different matter but I still go after I've gone through far to much pain and agony. Have you been taking in extra vitamin C and E? As soon as I feel a sore thought coming on I begin to pound my body with these 2 antioxidants in an effort to knock the wind out of my colds. |
| 2014-01-25 6:03 AM in reply to: JonnyVero |
Extreme Veteran 868 Racine, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN Originally posted by JonnyVero Hi Junkies! I've been trying to run 3 days a week even though the cough has not gone away. I did get to spend a little time on a bike this last Sunday too. I still haven't gone to see a doctor about the cough yet. I'm really reluctant to spend the money to have a dr. say "its a cold, go rest" The plan is to run the 2 mile Frosty Fun Run tomorrow morning with some friends so we'll see how I do in that situation. Good luck today! And go to the Dr !!!!! You have been sick a long time you might just need a little cough syrup with a kick plus it will help you sleep  |
| 2014-01-25 6:06 AM in reply to: DirkP |
Extreme Veteran 868 Racine, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN Originally posted by DirkP Originally posted by JonnyVero Hi Junkies! I've been trying to run 3 days a week even though the cough has not gone away. I did get to spend a little time on a bike this last Sunday too. I still haven't gone to see a doctor about the cough yet. I'm really reluctant to spend the money to have a dr. say "its a cold, go rest" The plan is to run the 2 mile Frosty Fun Run tomorrow morning with some friends so we'll see how I do in that situation. Enjoy the run! .........It's not a cold after 2-3 weeks. BUT, I probably would be resistant to going to the doc too. I am not much for going to them for any kind of illness. Injuries are a different matter but I still go after I've gone through far to much pain and agony. Have you been taking in extra vitamin C and E? As soon as I feel a sore thought coming on I begin to pound my body with these 2 antioxidants in an effort to knock the wind out of my colds. Vitamin D too !! |
| 2014-01-25 6:26 AM in reply to: Jo63 |
Master 3486 Fort Wayne | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN Originally posted by Jo63 Originally posted by JeffY I am doing Jorge's winter program and I was not riding on the road, and yes i was going 20 mph which apparently wasnt fast but at the time I was thrilled because I am having trouble getting faster Originally posted by Jo63 Dirk that was an awesome ride! Tony good luck today if you decide to race! Vero I am sorry you are still not feeling 100% and although I love winter i am a bit jealous of your 70 degrees First off...Hello everyone! I haven't even posted my Bio yet. we are at 12 degrees this morning. So if everything was correct with my bike yesterday I actually maxed at 280 on the bike for my last 2 intervals I was actually going 20 mph. Plus I finally had gotten myself up early to do it before work Iam hoping to get back in the swing of waking up early cuz I would like to be doing 1 workout in the morning and 1 in the evening when IM training officially begins.  Work has been busy for a few months and won't let up for a while. (it's a good kind of busy). I'm just not near a computer when I'm not at work. My training has been going well and I hope that is the case for everyone...and for those of you for whom it's not right now (Tony), I hope that changes very soon. Ok...so Jo: Here's my take on your workout. First off, was that workout done on the road? So 280 watts was only pushing you at 20mph? Please clarify this because if you were actually pushing 280 watts (and that's VERY likely for a 30 second interval), then you should have been much faster than 20mph and we might be able to uncover a reason for that and get you some free speed. My take on your first workout is that "10x 30 @ 100-106 % and 30 @ 68- 73% " means that you never stopped for 10 minutes. You went from 30 seconds at 100+% to 30 seconds at 70ish% and repeat... Because that's 10 full minutes off effort, I'm confident that the percentages were percentages of your FTP. In other words, the power you can put out in a sustained manner for 20 minutes when it really matters to you! So you can see why this would be challenging. Because you spend 30 seconds doing MORE than you can handle for 20 minutes in a race situation, then you drop down to something that is still not easy. So during that 30 seconds at the easier effort, your recovery rate is slowed dramatically while you continue to do a respectable amount of work. Think of it as physically equivalent to riding rolling hills. And that last one is 18 minutes just under your FTP. So just a little bit less than all you could handle for 20 minutes. So the first 18 minutes will hurt a little, but the 2nd 18 minutes will really make you pay! My guess is that your FTP might be somewhere in the neighborhood of 180-200watts and that you were overkilling your efforts. when I started I tested using HR! I got a power meter for Christmas and didn't want to retest ( maybe this was wrong) so i have been using HR and just seeing where I am with power, my thought was to test with power the week before I start IM training. So.... If you can figure out why I am working hard and not going as fast as I should be or getting any faster that would be awesome!! And thanks warren I will try at a lesser % so I can make it thru the ride!! Knowing this I will try not to beat myself up next time if I struggle to get thru Oh contraire!! 20 MPH is fast!! Be thrilled about 20 MPH! Power is going to be the most accurate method for developing more speed on the bike. Targeted workouts are the way to go and the power numbers can dial things in much more closely than HR. A persons HR can change on any given day and can provide somewhat misleading information because of this. I imagine you have had workouts where you felt like a million bucks at a HR that you have suffered intensely during a previous workout. The reasons for this can be many, such as a given day's nutrition, rest or lack thereof, recent illness, a particular meals' caloric/carb content, to name a few. But power numbers are not subject to these things. Power numbers remain the same regardless of the biological effects effected by HR. My suggestion is that you test again. I know it's painful, but it's a far more accurate way to get to your destination. And it's a less frustrating way to do your training. Also, to get faster on the bike (or any other discipline) you have to spend a lot of time on the bike. You can even apply the same principles that we have been saying for years about easy running to the bike - "Run often, run a lot, sometimes hard." That said, you can ride the bike harder more of the time and develop more speed, more quickly because there is less risk of injury. So, more saddle time will make you faster. This is one of the reasons I have been pouring myself into cycling over the past couple of months, I am trying to pick up more cycling speed/fitness to set myself up for IMWI a little better while I cannot run as much as I would like. Cutting the workout intensity down: In order to follow Warren's advice make sure you're not simply mentally/physically tired and want to give up. Driving your body into these states is one of the ways we develop a higher fitness, or in this case speed. Before you decide to dial a workout down in intensity, make sure it's needed. It's likely that you're going to be taking the following day away from riding so try to use that for motivation to continue as a long as possible through the hardest parts of a workout. The day away from riding will provide relief for the cycling muscles so you can hit it hard the next time. |
| 2014-01-25 6:29 AM in reply to: Jo63 |
Master 3486 Fort Wayne | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN Originally posted by Jo63 Originally posted by bswcpa Thanks i did see this. I will have to see how this will fit into my schedules and seeing as Racine is a couple weeks before this may work! Oh and FYI to DIRK and JOANNE - Wisconsin Brick Adventure just posted the dates they're doing the weekend - it's August 1-3. That's later than I was hoping but it's still doable for me, I believe.
I'll have to discuss this with Lis. I am not likely to go up there by myself with 2 other ladies for some rather obvious reasons. Of course it's not a trust issue with either of you, rather it's an appearance issue. There is another athlete planning to do IMWI this year and I may check with him to see if he would like to do the same weekend as well. |
| 2014-01-25 7:34 AM in reply to: DirkP |
Extreme Veteran 868 Racine, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN Originally posted by DirkP Originally posted by Jo63 Originally posted by bswcpa Thanks i did see this. I will have to see how this will fit into my schedules and seeing as Racine is a couple weeks before this may work! Oh and FYI to DIRK and JOANNE - Wisconsin Brick Adventure just posted the dates they're doing the weekend - it's August 1-3. That's later than I was hoping but it's still doable for me, I believe.
I'll have to discuss this with Lis. I am not likely to go up there by myself with 2 other ladies for some rather obvious reasons. Of course it's not a trust issue with either of you, rather it's an appearance issue. There is another athlete planning to do IMWI this year and I may check with him to see if he would like to do the same weekend as well. My husband and at least one of our boys will most likely be coming too if that helps, they will go rock climbing while we do our thing and then be back in the evening. |
| 2014-01-25 8:07 AM in reply to: DirkP |
Extreme Veteran 1123 Sidney, Ohio | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN Originally posted by DirkP I'm glad to see that I am not the only one who has this issue. The local running group is mostly women and when I know it's going to be majority women at a gathering or group run I tend to avoid it. I figure I spend enough time training away from the family, that I shouldn't be going spending a couple of hours with women training. As dirk said it's not a trust issue but an appearance issue, plus there is no reason to raise tension on Sara's end with my training! Originally posted by Jo63 Originally posted by bswcpa Thanks i did see this. I will have to see how this will fit into my schedules and seeing as Racine is a couple weeks before this may work! Oh and FYI to DIRK and JOANNE - Wisconsin Brick Adventure just posted the dates they're doing the weekend - it's August 1-3. That's later than I was hoping but it's still doable for me, I believe.
I'll have to discuss this with Lis. I am not likely to go up there by myself with 2 other ladies for some rather obvious reasons. Of course it's not a trust issue with either of you, rather it's an appearance issue. There is another athlete planning to do IMWI this year and I may check with him to see if he would like to do the same weekend as well. |
| 2014-01-25 8:55 AM in reply to: mambos |
Extreme Veteran 868 Racine, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN Ok so Iam still trying to figure out the trainer road thing if I have an ant for my bike do I need one for the computer too? |
| 2014-01-25 10:50 AM in reply to: Jo63 |
Extreme Veteran 1123 Sidney, Ohio | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN Originally posted by Jo63Ok so Iam still trying to figure out the trainer road thing if I have an ant for my bike do I need one for the computer too? this is what I have, HR monitor (on me), cadence/speed sensor (on the bike), then a ant+ USB stick stuck in the PC. And away I go to suffering and pain . I do not use my watch as I get enough info by downloading the tcx file into my BT log. I think if you were starting from scratch the cost for these 3 items may be around $120-$140. I just finished day 1 and my FTP raised to 210, honestly I think I am really sandbagging it. Last year spending time on the trainer I was up around 240ish. When I finished the FTP test I felt fine and actually contemplated doing my run early, last year I could barely get off the bike let alone consider running. I think after this sufferfest your I will do a true FTP test to the point I fall off the bike, maybe actually struggle a bit! |
| 2014-01-25 11:55 AM in reply to: mambos |
Extreme Veteran 868 Racine, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN Originally posted by mambos Originally posted by Jo63Ok so Iam still trying to figure out the trainer road thing if I have an ant for my bike do I need one for the computer too? this is what I have, HR monitor (on me), cadence/speed sensor (on the bike), then a ant+ USB stick stuck in the PC. And away I go to suffering and pain . I do not use my watch as I get enough info by downloading the tcx file into my BT log. I think if you were starting from scratch the cost for these 3 items may be around $120-$140. I just finished day 1 and my FTP raised to 210, honestly I think I am really sandbagging it. Last year spending time on the trainer I was up around 240ish. When I finished the FTP test I felt fine and actually contemplated doing my run early, last year I could barely get off the bike let alone consider running. I think after this sufferfest your I will do a true FTP test to the point I fall off the bike, maybe actually struggle a bit! Thanks Matt I have everything but the USB stick and that was what I wasn't understanding. I really need to get this technology block that I have in my head out I am looking forward to doing the FTP test so I can't really start using power I get wrapped up in HR numbers and after reading the earlier posts I guess I didn't realize how many things can affect the HR number. |
| 2014-01-25 12:19 PM in reply to: mambos |
Expert 2380 Mastic Beach, NY | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN Originally posted by mambos Originally posted by DirkP I'm glad to see that I am not the only one who has this issue. The local running group is mostly women and when I know it's going to be majority women at a gathering or group run I tend to avoid it. I figure I spend enough time training away from the family, that I shouldn't be going spending a couple of hours with women training. As dirk said it's not a trust issue but an appearance issue, plus there is no reason to raise tension on Sara's end with my training! Originally posted by Jo63 Originally posted by bswcpa Thanks i did see this. I will have to see how this will fit into my schedules and seeing as Racine is a couple weeks before this may work! Oh and FYI to DIRK and JOANNE - Wisconsin Brick Adventure just posted the dates they're doing the weekend - it's August 1-3. That's later than I was hoping but it's still doable for me, I believe.
I'll have to discuss this with Lis. I am not likely to go up there by myself with 2 other ladies for some rather obvious reasons. Of course it's not a trust issue with either of you, rather it's an appearance issue. There is another athlete planning to do IMWI this year and I may check with him to see if he would like to do the same weekend as well. Matt and Dirk I would agree with you guys about the training with women. I typically am the same way in that I'll train with other women in groups with other men as well with one expection. I do train with my friend Teresa, my friend Wynn's wife. We run the same pace and MTN bike at around the same pace so at times I will go out with her for a trail run or for aMTN bike ride with her. It's typically in a small group but even then we wind up as pair because we run and bike at the same paces. I'll also swim with Teresa and our friend Susan since I can almost keep up with them when we are OWS at the lake. I can't say I do it all the time but we do train together from time to time. My wife Joyce is really good with it and knows these ladies and doesn't give me a hard time about it but I totally understand where you guys are coming from on this. |
| 2014-01-25 12:24 PM in reply to: mambos |
Expert 2380 Mastic Beach, NY | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN Originally posted by mambos Originally posted by Jo63Ok so Iam still trying to figure out the trainer road thing if I have an ant for my bike do I need one for the computer too? this is what I have, HR monitor (on me), cadence/speed sensor (on the bike), then a ant+ USB stick stuck in the PC. And away I go to suffering and pain . I do not use my watch as I get enough info by downloading the tcx file into my BT log. I think if you were starting from scratch the cost for these 3 items may be around $120-$140. I just finished day 1 and my FTP raised to 210, honestly I think I am really sandbagging it. Last year spending time on the trainer I was up around 240ish. When I finished the FTP test I felt fine and actually contemplated doing my run early, last year I could barely get off the bike let alone consider running. I think after this sufferfest your I will do a true FTP test to the point I fall off the bike, maybe actually struggle a bit! Matt I felt the same way about my first 20 minute FTP test. I think a had something left and didn't push hard enough early in the test hence my numbers were down from where I started last year. I am noticing that in my workouts now I am pretty much pushing the high end of the range of FTP that is called for in the given workout. So that tells me I am probably close to where I was last year when I started. I should've probably retested but I just didn't want to go through that again and figured I was close enough to where I should be. The workouts are challenging me so I know if I'm off it's not by much. I'll wait for the next test which should be coming up soon enough. |
| 2014-01-25 12:28 PM in reply to: Jo63 |
Expert 2380 Mastic Beach, NY | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN Originally posted by Jo63 Originally posted by mambos Originally posted by Jo63Ok so Iam still trying to figure out the trainer road thing if I have an ant for my bike do I need one for the computer too? this is what I have, HR monitor (on me), cadence/speed sensor (on the bike), then a ant+ USB stick stuck in the PC. And away I go to suffering and pain . I do not use my watch as I get enough info by downloading the tcx file into my BT log. I think if you were starting from scratch the cost for these 3 items may be around $120-$140. I just finished day 1 and my FTP raised to 210, honestly I think I am really sandbagging it. Last year spending time on the trainer I was up around 240ish. When I finished the FTP test I felt fine and actually contemplated doing my run early, last year I could barely get off the bike let alone consider running. I think after this sufferfest your I will do a true FTP test to the point I fall off the bike, maybe actually struggle a bit! Thanks Matt I have everything but the USB stick and that was what I wasn't understanding. I really need to get this technology block that I have in my head out I am looking forward to doing the FTP test so I can't really start using power I get wrapped up in HR numbers and after reading the earlier posts I guess I didn't realize how many things can affect the HR number. JoAnne power is a much more reliable variable then HR to execute your interval training program. As everyone has already mentioned HR varies alot based on many factors. I think power is a better way to measurement your progress. |
| 2014-01-25 2:28 PM in reply to: strikyr |
Veteran 487 Nova Scotia, Canada | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN So I ride Stage 1 and decide to turn the intensity down to 90% and try and ride just above that for the FTP test. The last test I did I was dead for almost a week so I figured I'd sandbag it a bit. Well turns out I still upped my FTP by 5 watts. Opps, lol. I did stage 2 today and again decided to turn down the intensity to 90% just yo make sure I'm got a lot left for the rest of the week. Well after. 30 minutes of riding well above the target watts I stopped and turned it back to 100%. I really felt great for the rest of the 2 hours, but I figure I'm going to blow up bad about stage 4 or 5, lol. All the extra bike hours have really begun to pay off thus year. Can't wait for race season! |
| 2014-01-25 5:30 PM in reply to: BigDaddyD79 |
Expert 2380 Mastic Beach, NY | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN Originally posted by BigDaddyD79 So I ride Stage 1 and decide to turn the intensity down to 90% and try and ride just above that for the FTP test. The last test I did I was dead for almost a week so I figured I'd sandbag it a bit. Well turns out I still upped my FTP by 5 watts. Opps, lol. I did stage 2 today and again decided to turn down the intensity to 90% just yo make sure I'm got a lot left for the rest of the week. Well after. 30 minutes of riding well above the target watts I stopped and turned it back to 100%. I really felt great for the rest of the 2 hours, but I figure I'm going to blow up bad about stage 4 or 5, lol. All the extra bike hours have really begun to pay off thus year. Can't wait for race season! Derek that's great it sounds like all that riding you've done has definitely improved your power, strength and endurance. I'm not sure if you can put too many hours in on the bike. I know all the hours, miles and work I put in on the bike made a huge difference last season. I'm hoping to do more of the same this year. Good luck with tour and I'm sure it will go along way to helping you continue to improve on the bike. |
| 2014-01-26 7:03 AM in reply to: 0 |
Master 3486 Fort Wayne | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN Originally posted by Jo63 Ok so Iam still trying to figure out the trainer road thing if I have an ant for my bike do I need one for the computer too? It's pretty much as Matt stated, but you really don't "need" a HR monitor but the information is valuable as you complete your rides in TR. The must have's are the speed/cadence device and only one Ant+ stick. From there you just have to make sure you sync your devices with TR before beginning each workout. This can be done very easily with a couple of mouse click. All of your selections are at the top of the window, just click devices, activate your individual sensors (by putting your HR monitor on and spinning your pedals a few times) and click the "Search for Ant+ USB" button. One more thing; If you decide to use your Garmin device (if you have one make sure you disable the GPS on your watch while training inside. If you don't the GPS will attempt to take over your device and it will give you false data when you try to download it. Using your watch is completely unnecessary, as Matt stated. Trainer Road takes care of everything for you. I still use my Garmin Connect account as a back up to my BT training log, so I still use my watch. You also stated you don't have a Ant+ USB stick. You can grab one on Amazon for $30-$45 and have it in 2 days if you're a Prime member. Oops! Have you gotten an account in TR? If so we can add you (if you like) to the group Warren created so we can see each other's workouts.
Edited by DirkP 2014-01-26 7:07 AM |
| 2014-01-26 7:27 AM in reply to: BigDaddyD79 |
Master 3486 Fort Wayne | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN Originally posted by BigDaddyD79 So I ride Stage 1 and decide to turn the intensity down to 90% and try and ride just above that for the FTP test. The last test I did I was dead for almost a week so I figured I'd sandbag it a bit. Well turns out I still upped my FTP by 5 watts. Opps, lol. I did stage 2 today and again decided to turn down the intensity to 90% just yo make sure I'm got a lot left for the rest of the week. Well after. 30 minutes of riding well above the target watts I stopped and turned it back to 100%. I really felt great for the rest of the 2 hours, but I figure I'm going to blow up bad about stage 4 or 5, lol. All the extra bike hours have really begun to pay off thus year. Can't wait for race season! I really need to do another FTP test to see where I am at. The last test I completed was on some pretty tired legs following a 8.75 hour cycling week. I came up with a fair FTP I felt for the stress and then duplicated a similar effort a couple of weeks later that was almost exactly the same number but on a computrainer. The second one was on some equally tired legs as well. I'll probable wait until after I am done with the current plan, which I'll only do 4 of the remaining 8 weeks. The final 3-4 weeks are a race taper for the HIM distance and I'll not have anything even on the radar at that point. It sounds like you had a solid test result. How were the legs going into the test? With all of the hard core riding you have been doing it seems you may have been in the same scenario I was in when I completed my tests. |
| 2014-01-26 8:23 AM in reply to: DirkP |
Extreme Veteran 868 Racine, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN Originally posted by DirkP Originally posted by Jo63 Ok so Iam still trying to figure out the trainer road thing if I have an ant for my bike do I need one for the computer too? It's pretty much as Matt stated, but you really don't "need" a HR monitor but the information is valuable as you complete your rides in TR. The must have's are the speed/cadence device and only one Ant+ stick. From there you just have to make sure you sync your devices with TR before beginning each workout. This can be done very easily with a couple of mouse click. All of your selections are at the top of the window, just click devices, activate your individual sensors (by putting your HR monitor on and spinning your pedals a few times) and click the "Search for Ant+ USB" button. One more thing; If you decide to use your Garmin device (if you have one make sure you disable the GPS on your watch while training inside. If you don't the GPS will attempt to take over your device and it will give you false data when you try to download it. Using your watch is completely unnecessary, as Matt stated. Trainer Road takes care of everything for you. I still use my Garmin Connect account as a back up to my BT training log, so I still use my watch. You also stated you don't have a Ant+ USB stick. You can grab one on Amazon for $30-$45 and have it in 2 days if you're a Prime member. Oops! Have you gotten an account in TR? If so we can add you (if you like) to the group Warren created so we can see each other's workouts.
We ordered from Amazon yesterday should have my stick early this week I do not have an account yet I was waiting to figure out how to hook it all up |
| 2014-01-26 10:19 AM in reply to: DirkP |
Expert 2380 Mastic Beach, NY | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN Originally posted by DirkP Originally posted by Jo63 Originally posted by JeffY I am doing Jorge's winter program and I was not riding on the road, and yes i was going 20 mph which apparently wasnt fast but at the time I was thrilled because I am having trouble getting faster Originally posted by Jo63 Dirk that was an awesome ride! Tony good luck today if you decide to race! Vero I am sorry you are still not feeling 100% and although I love winter i am a bit jealous of your 70 degrees First off...Hello everyone! I haven't even posted my Bio yet. we are at 12 degrees this morning. So if everything was correct with my bike yesterday I actually maxed at 280 on the bike for my last 2 intervals I was actually going 20 mph. Plus I finally had gotten myself up early to do it before work Iam hoping to get back in the swing of waking up early cuz I would like to be doing 1 workout in the morning and 1 in the evening when IM training officially begins. Work has been busy for a few months and won't let up for a while. (it's a good kind of busy). I'm just not near a computer when I'm not at work. My training has been going well and I hope that is the case for everyone...and for those of you for whom it's not right now (Tony), I hope that changes very soon. Ok...so Jo: Here's my take on your workout. First off, was that workout done on the road? So 280 watts was only pushing you at 20mph? Please clarify this because if you were actually pushing 280 watts (and that's VERY likely for a 30 second interval), then you should have been much faster than 20mph and we might be able to uncover a reason for that and get you some free speed. My take on your first workout is that "10x 30 @ 100-106 % and 30 @ 68- 73% " means that you never stopped for 10 minutes. You went from 30 seconds at 100+% to 30 seconds at 70ish% and repeat... Because that's 10 full minutes off effort, I'm confident that the percentages were percentages of your FTP. In other words, the power you can put out in a sustained manner for 20 minutes when it really matters to you! So you can see why this would be challenging. Because you spend 30 seconds doing MORE than you can handle for 20 minutes in a race situation, then you drop down to something that is still not easy. So during that 30 seconds at the easier effort, your recovery rate is slowed dramatically while you continue to do a respectable amount of work. Think of it as physically equivalent to riding rolling hills. And that last one is 18 minutes just under your FTP. So just a little bit less than all you could handle for 20 minutes. So the first 18 minutes will hurt a little, but the 2nd 18 minutes will really make you pay! My guess is that your FTP might be somewhere in the neighborhood of 180-200watts and that you were overkilling your efforts. when I started I tested using HR! I got a power meter for Christmas and didn't want to retest ( maybe this was wrong) so i have been using HR and just seeing where I am with power, my thought was to test with power the week before I start IM training. So.... If you can figure out why I am working hard and not going as fast as I should be or getting any faster that would be awesome!! And thanks warren I will try at a lesser % so I can make it thru the ride!! Knowing this I will try not to beat myself up next time if I struggle to get thru Oh contraire!! 20 MPH is fast!! Be thrilled about 20 MPH! Power is going to be the most accurate method for developing more speed on the bike. Targeted workouts are the way to go and the power numbers can dial things in much more closely than HR. A persons HR can change on any given day and can provide somewhat misleading information because of this. I imagine you have had workouts where you felt like a million bucks at a HR that you have suffered intensely during a previous workout. The reasons for this can be many, such as a given day's nutrition, rest or lack thereof, recent illness, a particular meals' caloric/carb content, to name a few. But power numbers are not subject to these things. Power numbers remain the same regardless of the biological effects effected by HR. My suggestion is that you test again. I know it's painful, but it's a far more accurate way to get to your destination. And it's a less frustrating way to do your training. Also, to get faster on the bike (or any other discipline) you have to spend a lot of time on the bike. You can even apply the same principles that we have been saying for years about easy running to the bike - "Run often, run a lot, sometimes hard." That said, you can ride the bike harder more of the time and develop more speed, more quickly because there is less risk of injury. So, more saddle time will make you faster. This is one of the reasons I have been pouring myself into cycling over the past couple of months, I am trying to pick up more cycling speed/fitness to set myself up for IMWI a little better while I cannot run as much as I would like. Cutting the workout intensity down: In order to follow Warren's advice make sure you're not simply mentally/physically tired and want to give up. Driving your body into these states is one of the ways we develop a higher fitness, or in this case speed. Before you decide to dial a workout down in intensity, make sure it's needed. It's likely that you're going to be taking the following day away from riding so try to use that for motivation to continue as a long as possible through the hardest parts of a workout. The day away from riding will provide relief for the cycling muscles so you can hit it hard the next time. Dirk I missed this post but I think your strategy for the bike is solid. I can tell you my friend Wynn did IMMT in 2012 and he was injured with PF and couldn't run much at all while training for it. He made up for it by biking as much as he possibly could. Not only did he become stronger, faster and an overall better rider but he didn't really lose anything at all by not being able to run as much as he would've liked to. He finished IMMT in a pretty solid time without doing much running at all so if you can't run much and can bike, bike as much as you can. |
| 2014-01-26 10:49 AM in reply to: DirkP |
Veteran 487 Nova Scotia, Canada | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN That's the funny thing Dirk, I did a pretty hard 1.5 hour ride about 18 hours before, and if was trying to sand bag the ride a bit, lol. Can't wait for the next 7 stages, this will be the most cycling I've done in one week I think. |
| 2014-01-26 6:16 PM in reply to: DirkP |
Veteran 498 Redding, CA | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN Originally posted by DirkP Enjoy the run! .........It's not a cold after 2-3 weeks. BUT, I probably would be resistant to going to the doc too. I am not much for going to them for any kind of illness. Injuries are a different matter but I still go after I've gone through far to much pain and agony. Have you been taking in extra vitamin C and E? As soon as I feel a sore thought coming on I begin to pound my body with these 2 antioxidants in an effort to knock the wind out of my colds. I did the run and it felt great. The threat of going into a coughing fit did hold me back some but I still had a good time. Last night I was in coughing fits for what felt like hours. I didn't get a lot of sleep so today I finally caved and went to get checked out. The official word is "asthmatic bronchitis" which really means "you have a sore throat and coughing makes it worse. It should heal up in another week or so". Pretty much what I expected and that's why I resist going to the doctor most of the time. He prescribed a heavy duty cough syrup to help me get through the nights and said try not to be out in our current horrible air quality too much. Part of the issue is we are in a drought here. It has rained once in the last couple of months and the wind is kicking up lots of dust and such into the air. The doctor described it like smoking a pack of cigarettes a day, yuck. So I'll keep on doing short runs for a while, take cough suppressants when I need to, and pray for the rain we so desperately need. |
| 2014-01-26 7:38 PM in reply to: JonnyVero |
Expert 2380 Mastic Beach, NY | Subject: RE: Asphalt Junkies Winter Edition - OPEN John congrats on your run. I'm glad to hear you did well even if you had to hold back a little due to how you've been feeling lately. I'm also glad to hear that you finally did get yourself checked out and it's nothing serious. I'm the same way and I think Dirk mentioned it as well but I probably wouldn't have gone to the doctor right away either. I hope you do feel better and that drought and air quality condition doesn't sound to good either. I hope you guys get some rain soon. I know everyone is getting ramped up for the Tour of Sufferlandria this week. I must say I felt like I took a ride on the tour with yesterday's workout. I have not suffered like that during a workout in quite some time. I mean I was to the point where I wanted to quit, twice no less but I managed to hang in there and get it done. I hate nothing more then giving up or quiting on a workout. I did threshold intervals on the bike and the last set of 15 minutes I did everything I could just to stay in my prescribed range and keep my legs moving. During the cool down my legs were on auto pilot and I think my mind totally checked out. It was the same on the treadmill, I did a mile warmup and figured wow this will be a peice of cake until I ramped up to what I thought was marathon pace. It was actually threshold pace, 40 seconds faster. I thought man I'm not gonna be able to run another mile. I realized my error and bumped the speed down to half marathon pace for the last mile and it took every ounce of my being to stay on the treadmill and keep my legs moving. I'm glad to report that I did complete the workout although I must have stood on the treadmill for what seemed like an eternity trying to clear the double vision I was experiencing. I was totally trashed after that workout. I didn't expect much for today's workout which was an hour of run intervals at threshold pace. I figured I'd give it a try anyway and I wasn't feeling great so I thought this is going to be more of the same another sufferfest. Well I'm glad to say I was wrong about that. After a very slow mile for a warmup I turned up the speed and lo and behold I was actually able to run at threshold pace. In fact I was able to complete the entire workout amazingly enough. It wasn't easy but it was not a sufferfest. I think I sold myself a little short today, the body will do what you want it to do for the most part it's getting the mind convinced to not give up while you are doing it. Thank goodness I am only swimming tomorrow my legs need the break. A very good weekend of mental toughness training for sure. |
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