Older&Wiser Group - FULL (Page 6)

Happy Valentines Day to all.  Went out for dinner, indulged a bit.  Oh well, will have to work that off on the weekend.

1. Lynne, over your swim career, was there a Eureka moment when suddenly everything just started to click and stroke count suddenly dropped and you got faster and faster, or was it slow improvement year over year from the very beginning?  Do you still get faster now or is it mostly maintenance?  And what do you think about when you’re swimming now?  On the one hand, you swim so fast maybe there’s no time to think.  On the other hand, you maybe so in tuned everything seems to happen in slow motion?
2. Angelo wasn’t clear about what he meant by straight arms.  The classic drill for high bent elbow recovery is the fingertip drag drill, click on the video here.  Aside from the nice bent elbow recovery, the video shows a very nice long stroke, arm is stretched and straight before underwater pull and body rotates on an axis from side to side.  Lynne, do you think the head position is too low?  Lots of swim drill videos at this site. 
3. However, the masters coach at the place I used to swim has a straight arm recovery, not pretty, but he was once the swim record holder for Ironman Canada! His point is that what really matters is what your body and arms do in the water, not what your arms do out of the water. So does anybody know of good drills for correct underwater pull (high bent elbow, s pull, etc).

Sorry for responding to your post so late. There's been a lot going on the last couple of days. To answer your questions:

I can't say there was a Eureka moment when suddenly everything just started to click. When I first got back in the pool in 1992 (after being out about 15 years), the strokes had changed considerably. (Don't get me wrong, I could still swim, but I just wasn't very competitive.) I had to embrace new ways of swimming in order to swim fast. It seemed like a long, slow process. I took private lessons from my coach, attended local swim clinics, watched videos, etc. I definitely got faster up until about 2003-2004. (Minor health issues+family issues+pool closure+change to a new pool+no more coached workouts.) Now everything is really just maintenance.

I don't think the head position was too low in the drill video. You want to keep your head/neck in a neutral position. I'll give some thought to drills for correct underwater pull.

There is one little tip I thought of the other day when I was helping someone with their stroke. As you swim, think out pressing down towards the bottom of the pool with your chest. (Not your head, just your chest.) This will help get your legs/hips up.

Hi all,

1. Quiet week, hope everybody liked the swim picture I posted.  No awards this week, not because we’re not doing well, but because I gave 2 in the first week, and I want to have #awards to correspond to #wks in the program.  Hope nobody is too disappointed.

2. An excellent example of HR training – Just want to point out that Lynne did her PB 10K run at an avg HR of 157, and most of her training is in the aerobic zone (130’s).  This is an excellent example of how we’re supposed to train. If we train in the 150’s all the time, that’s like racing every day, and nobody can sustain that intensity in the long haul w/o injury or undue stress to the body.  As Lynne gets closer to her "A" races, she’ll do more intervals & tempos at high 150’s & low 160’s, so called LT (lactate threshold), but 80%+ of the volume (incl all long bike rides and runs) will still be in the aerobic zone.  Ever wondered what Lance Armstrong #’s were like?  According to his coach, Chris Carmichael, Lance’s resting HR = 32-34, avg HR during endurance rides (4-6hr) = 124-128, LT = 178, time trial HR = 188-192.  So when you get frustrated with the HRM, just hang in there, it takes some time to get used to, and all of you are doing a fine job working with it.

3. Saw this post on another thread I’d like to share with you:

   "… Had my tri-group cycle this morning. The tri coach imparted a very interesting story.
   He had watched a training DVD, and a consulting firm had done a study of a huge nation wide real estate firm and their sales people. This is what they established....
   1/ 87% of the people hadn't thought of objectives or targets on their years" performance.
   2/ 10% Had thought about objectives/targets what they wanted to achieve etc...
   3/ 3% had thought about them and documented them and monitored performance against them.
   
   These were the results.
   The people in group 2/ sold 300% more than people in group 1/
   The people in group 3/ sold 1000% more than group 1/.
   
   All of us documenting our objectives and progress on BT put us in group 3/. Keep up the good work...."
   

Happy training next week!

What have I done to scare everybody away?  Seriously, does anybody have any questions?  I have one - I always pull (with pull buoy, no paddles, no kicking) faster than I can swim.   Is that normal?  What am I doing wrong?  Does anybody else have the same experience? 

Is Lynne's Morton's neuroma surgery tomorrow?  Hope everything goes well and a speedy recovery after.

Wolf, I like your new pictures, can't believe such colourful flowers in the desert!  I've a picture of you in action:

"Excellence - The difference between ordinary and extraordinary is the little extra"

Patricia - I've just been really busy this week preparing to be out of the office for 2 days. (Of course I will be working from home, but it just takes a lot of time to get things organized to do so.)

You know, I'm one of those pull faster than I can swim people too. Never had a coach that was able to explain it to me. Some guessed it was because the pull buoy kept my hips up since I have a non-propulsive kick (I use it pretty much just for balance.) Others tried to tell me it was because of my paddles, but I use the smallest paddles available with holes in them so there is less stress on my shoulders. I can always keep up with the fast swimmers on a pull set, but the minute I take off my toys, I have to move to the slow lane!

Surgery is tomorrow. I've been doing imagery exercises. I find they help relax me for things like this and contribute to faster healing. A bit bummed as I will miss the Tour of California bike race that is coming through town tomorrow afternoon. Oh well, it is supposed to rain anyway.

Are there any other swimming questions I might be able to answer since I'll have some time the next few days? 

Would love to hear whatever swim tips Lynne has for us.  I wonder if we should do more kick drills, as Jennifer suggests because our kick is weak, or not kick as much, to simulate what we do when we pull?  I’m still thinking about drills for the correct underwater pull (high elbow, s pull, etc).   Some suggest the fist drill, but it relies on the swimmer getting the “proper feel” so the entire forearm is used as the paddle.   Unfortunately, I’m not gifted to “feel” anything, except panic as I go nowhere very slow!  Does Lynne still believe in s-pull or has that gone out of style?  

Rose, you ask whether you should just keep swimming until you get really comfortable in the water or start doing some of the fancy stuff?   First of all, the two are not mutually exclusive.  Secondly, what we’re doing are not fancy, just trying to swim with proper form and not fight with the water so much.  Bottom line - everything we do here is about building endurance, training your cardiovascular capacity to be more efficient so it can do more with less effort.  So you have to keep swimming to build endurance, but to be able to swim more with less effort, you have to swim with proper form.  Like Lynne said, get somebody to look at your stroke and offer suggestions.   “Total Immersion” (TI) is touted as a revolutionary new way of swimming for triathletes.  Its concepts actually are not new - because water is 800 times denser than air, the most efficient way to swim is to streamline our body to create as little drag and water resistance as possible.  This is what they suggest:

1.      Swim downhill.  This is how Lynne explains it - Think about pressing down towards the bottom of the pool with your chest. (Not your head, just your chest.) This will help get your legs/hips up. 

2.      Swim taller.  Each stroke, say to yourself, "The most important thing I do with my hand is lengthen my body." Reach! Reach! Reach! This will give you a longer stroke and a longer, sleeker vessel, allowing you to slice far more easily through the water. But remember to press your chest down and swim downhill or this technique may seem impossible.

3.      Swim from side to side.   Think of swimming as rotating your body on an axis from side to side.  Breathe by rolling your body to where the air is – rather than lifting or turning your head.

This is what I know about TI, plus I’ve got their video.  Many people swear by TI, I think it’s a lot of hype, because these concepts are really not new.   What do people think of T1?  I’ll summarize our swim discussions when we get to page 5.

With regard to Malinda’s bike question.  I agree with Malinda and Wolf and Rose, don’t need to spend the money now.  Doing your first few tris on a commuter bike is fine.  You won’t be the only one.   For your first tri, don’t worry about time, just enjoy it.  Enjoy the scenery as you bike, enjoy the results of your hard work and celebrate the experience.  A racing / tri bike will be faster.   Having said that, it’s not about the bike, it’s about the engine, you’re the engine!  Everything we do here is about building endurance.  Oops, I said that already.  When you’ve more endurance, you’ll be faster.  I’ve done a lot of research on cycling the last while as that’s what I want to improve.  What I’ve concluded, unfortunately, is that when it comes to cycling, (unlike swimming, which is rather technical), there’s no magic bullet or short cut.  You just have to ride lots to improve your endurance.  Beyond that, here’s a list, #1 is the key.  To be faster, you have to:
1.      Ride more.  Ride more.  Ride even more.  Long rides are key.
2.      As the weather gets warmer and roads are safer, do a long ride every week.  Build 10% a week until your long ride is 90min or more (for sprints).
3.      This seems silly, but if you want a faster time, you’ve to ride faster, i.e. push yourself.   You probably want to wait until roads are safer to do this. 
4.      To be faster, you can do higher cadence (i.e higher rpm) in the same gear, or same rpm in a bigger gear.  Try to ride with a higher cadence in smaller gear than lower cadence in a bigger gear.  Higher cadence / smaller gear is more efficient and requires less effort.  This also helps you to run after your bike.  Most coaches recommend a cadence of >85.
5.      Do intervals.
6.      Do hill repeats.
7.      Do group rides.
8.      Make sure you can do the hills required with your gear cluster.  If not, get some easier gears.  A tri clinic instructor suggested that to me a few years back and that was the best advice I ever got.   Cost was about $30.
9.      If there’s a short cut to a faster bike time at a race, I’d say it’s training on the actual race course, esp if it's a technical one.  Train and ride on the race course as much as possible.  That’s one of the reasons Lance Armstrong is able to do so much better than his competitors.  He practiced on the actual course, go figure.  When I raced at the Worlds, I was faster every successive loop (5 loop course) as I became more accustomed to the terrain and the turns.  Nowadays, many races even have their course on the computrainer so you can download the course and ride it on your computrainer in the comfort of your own home.  The Worlds last year have that, but I don’t have a computrainer.  I know many races have their course on computrainer, there’s even a bike store here where you can test ride the race course on their computrainer for $25 - $35 per hour. 

I notice that Lynne uses spinervals DVD’s, how do you find them?

Two BT features that may be of interest:

1. Top left corner, if you click under Control Panel, you’d get a page where you can click "yes" for signature, and enter how you’d like to sign off your posts, could be name + quote, or anything you want.
2. Under Training Log, if you click on this link , there’s a spot for your equipment, eg your bike, your running shoes, etc..

See our "collective wisdom" post on the first post of the last page.

Links: group summary,  progression to injury free running,  buying running shoes,  setting yourself up for success,  cycling tips

The following is based on our discussion so far.  Let me know of any errors, omissions, etc…  I've set up links to some of our key posts above, so people don't have to search all over for it.  If there're other ones you'd like me to link, let me know.

SWIM:  General Tips:

1. Have someone (swim instructor, coach, experienced swimmer, etc.) look at your stroke and offer suggestions.  Or even have others videotaped your stroke.
2. Do sets / drills instead of lap swimming – Contrary to popular belief, practice does not make perfect, it only makes permanent.  Laps and laps of swimming with poor form only reinforce poor technique.  Only perfect practice makes perfect, and drills are the keys to perfect practice.  Doing sets / drills / other strokes also reduce risk of overuse injury because they give your system valuable rest in between (eg arm drills let your legs rest, kick drills let your shoulders rest, seconds in between sets let your system rest, etc).
3. DRILLS DO NOT HAVE TO BE DONE FAST! They should be done as slowly as you need to do them correctly.
4. Find some feet to follow, whether in the pool or in a race – Everybody knows about the benefits of drafting in open water swimming, you can swim faster with less effort and save time on sighting.  But even in a pool, if you swim behind a person that’s slightly faster and try to reach for their toes on every stroke, it forces you to swim faster with a long efficient stroke.
5. Check out the strokes of better swimmers.  The better the swimmer, the lower the stroke count, almost always under 20 per 25m.
6. Count your stroke/lap so you become more aware of your efficiency.
7. Swim against pace clock so you become more aware of your pace, and whether a stroke modification is working.

Technique / Drill Tips:

1. Swim downhill - Think about pressing down towards the bottom of the pool with your chest. (Not your head, just your chest.)  This will help get your legs/hips up.
2. Swim taller - Each stroke, say to yourself, "The most important thing I do with my hand is lengthen my body." Reach! Reach! Reach! This will give you a longer stroke and a longer, sleeker vessel, allowing you to slice far more easily through the water.  But remember to press your chest down and swim downhill or this technique may seem impossible.
3. Swim from side to side - Think of swimming as rotating your body on an axis from side to side.  Breathe by rolling your body to where the air is – rather than lifting or turning your head.
4. Swolf - swim golf, trains you swim faster with the most effective stroke count.
5. Lots of swim drill videos at this site
6. The classic drill for high bent elbow recovery is the fingertip drag drill, click on video here - Aside from the nice bent elbow recovery, the video shows a very nice long stroke, arm is stretched and straight before underwater pull and body rotates on an axis from side to side.

Keep swimming, one stroke at a time:

Hi all,

1. We should give a very big hand to Rose, who broke the 200lb mark for the first time in 10+ years!  5wks into BT and Rose has lost 8lbs.  Rose, all your hard work is paying off, keep it up!  We’re so proud of you. Standings thus far:

   Award	Wolf	Lynne	Jennifer	Malinda	Rose	Patricia	Angelo
   1. most inspiring training session – Jan 17	√
   2. toughing it out				√
   3. coolest idea – "swolf"		√
   4. raising the bar	√	√	√	√	√	√	√
   5. inspiring race / pictures	√	√
   6. breakthrough wt loss					√
   Overall winner – TBA	3	3	1	2	2	1	1

2. In my continuing quest to improve my swim, I found the ultimate tri swim training video by accomplished triathlete / coach Wes Hobson, you must check it out.
3. If you’ve some time, or if the winter blahs are getting to you, this is a good time to find out about upcoming races and pick out potential ones that you want to do. Set them up under  tab.  Also, check your logs, pat yourself on the back for all the minutes you’ve logged so far, update your goals and/or refine your plan.  Jennifer, have you decided on a new plan?
4. I’ll continue to summarize our "collective wisdom" in the first post of the most current page, so people don’t have to search all over.  Don’t get overwhelmed by it.  We’ve covered a lot of material and we’re not at the same stage of training, so not everything is relevant at a particular time.  The "collective wisdom" post has a lot of ideas, pick what’s relevant to you and go back periodically for new ideas.  Don’t try to do all of it all of the time, just some of it some of the time, or even all of the time, or all of it some of the time.

Lynne's surgery went fine.  She's trying to be a good patient and follow dr's orders.  But it's difficult because hubby is feeding her donuts and she can't work them off.  She has to sit with foot elevated and only walk to the bathroom and kitchen when necessary.   Lynne, you were due for a recovery week anyway, so this forced recovery is happening at a good time.  Hang in there, you’ll be even stronger after this forced recovery.

Good luck to all in your training next week.

Hi all, just received a reply from Angelo.  He just got back from vacation, gained 5 lbs, and is going to the gym right away to work it off.   Rose, very good points, everything in moderation and less fat (sounds like points #2 and #6 on our collective wisdom post).  

Regarding comments on Jennifer’s Feb 25 log - For our age and ability, I think there’s a big difference whether we’re mostly training at 110’s (too low), 130’s (just right), or 150’s (too high).   Once we’re in the right zone, I don’t believe there’s that much difference between, say, 131 vs 135 vs 139.  There’re many formulae for HR training, click on HR zone on left hand side of your training log and you can see a few.  Which is why I really like what Wolf is doing, just keep it simple, try to stay in the aerobic range, use common sense and make sure you feel good after every workout, so good that you feel you can go out and do it again immediately. 

Running HR is generally 10beats more than cycling, which in turn is 5 beats more than swimming, and also changes if you’ve sport specific strength / weakness.   Difference in HR is because you carry your own weight in running, as Jennifer points out, but you sit cycling, and water supports your entire body in swimming.  As a result, given same perceived exertion and time spent, you burn the most calories in running, followed by cycling, followed by swimming.  Then again, because cycling HR is lower, you can theoretically bike for longer and burn more calories.   Because running is where you can easily go beyond the optimal range, using HRM in running is most helpful to keep yourself in check.

As Wolf and Jennifer already found out, when you’re under the weather, the HR is higher than usual.  So listen to your body and take it easy.  Both of you probably already have the endurance to do a sprint tri today.   Question is finishing time.  Some people work better with a structured plan, some people work better with a more flexible approach.  There’s no “one size fits all” solution, the right “plan” is whatever works for you, so Wolf, you’re fine with your less structured plan, and Jennifer, you’re also fine with your more structured plan.

Bottom line - take it easy and have fun, listen to your body (perceived exertion) and your HRM.  Don’t go overboard, but don’t get too fussed with a few beats on the HRM either.  Think of the exercise HR as kindof like your weight, keep it in a reasonable feel good range, a range that you think you can maintain forever.  

Swim picture 2 wks ago, bike picture last wk, what's for this wk, you ask?

"Determination - The race is not always to the swift... but to those who keep on running"

Hi all,

Torn between wanting to acknowledge Rose and Jennifer's amazing swim progress and wanting to cheer up Wolf, Lynne, Malinda and Angelo, who for reasons beyond their control, were unable to workout to the extent they'd like last week, I concluded we all deserve a √ for our wisdom - as we demonstrate we know the difference between changing what we can, and accepting what we can't change: