Baowolf's Mentor Group- Closed (Page 61)

Pam, great job on the long run on tired legs! I noticed in your log that the 16 was after 9 miles the previous day at a faster pace. And even better on snagging the vehicle for your son. A bargain is good, and that it was what he wanted...awesome!

You guys are almost making the trainer road thing sound like fun. I've been trying to jam bike miles in outside while the weather is unseasonably warm here. Unfortunately that backfired this morning...tried to get in a ride bef. church, and rear tire blew out about 4 miles in. Gash in the sidewall AND the part that touches the ground. Didn't have much time and figuring the tire is ripped up enough to be toast, so called hubby to sag me back home.

Carol -- Trainer road is the best thing I've done for my biking (on the trainer, that is). Its a great, inexpensive measurement tool, compatible with lots of other programs & cycling videos (like the Sufferfest, my personal favorite), and is a fantastic motivational tool. For hardware, all you need is a speed/cadence sensor, such as the Garmin GCS-10, and an ANT+ compatible USB stick (ANT+ is a wireless data transfer protocol). Total cost about $70. The Trainder Road subscription is $10/mo, and works with your PC, laptop, whatever to give you speed, cadence, HR, and 'virtual' power figures. It dervies power based on what trainer you have, speed, etc. I HIGHLY recommend it!

Pam -- great run! I need to get there someday

Swim this AM was a beat down. Swim set was 3400 yards, and I did 'only' 2900 as I had to leave a bit early. Warm up of 500, 6x50, then a 'broken mile'. Then 10x100 with paddles. Fun. My mile time was 29:40, which I thought was kind of slow, but I'm in terrible shape, so I now have a baseline to use going forward. The 'broken' mile is a mile swim broken up into sections of 11,10,9,8, 7, 6, 5..... sections with 10 second reset between each. By the time you get to 6 or so, you're just praying to be done.

Looking at 2014 scheduling. May be a HIM in June, 2 Oly's in July, and a spring/Oly (sat/sun) weekend in August, and maybe a final HIM in early September. Need to finalize family vacation plans before I get too crazy with the 'register' button. Of course, if I get lucky with the Kona Lottery, all bets are off

Thanks for the trainer road rundown, Mike! I actually have a cadence sensor (Garmin) that I have yet to install, and $10/month sounds very reasonable. May have to ask Santa to bring me a Trainer Road subscription for Christmas .

MTA questions: does it work with cheapo mag trainers? I have an Ascent mag trainer with no bells and whistles. Also, I have my old bike on the trainer for now, and have it set up with a nice trainer tire. Could I possibly just swap the rear wheel from my old bike with the rear wheel of my newer one so I could use the newer bike on the trainer? I believe they both have the same cassette on them. Just thinking I would want the cadence sensor on my newerish bike for outside use as well.

Edited by squirt 2013-11-18 8:43 AM

The TR website has a huge list of trainers it works with. It doesn't necessarily interact with the trainer, but depends on the model to know which power curve to use to estimate power output.

Thanks Mike! Doesn't support my trainer for virtual power . Could use HR though. Hmmm...maybe I just need to get some cycling videos and gawk at my garmin HR readings.

I'm full of questions today. Can someone 'splain to me about the pull buoy and rotation? Seems like it's harder to rotate with the thing, so I have to really think about initiating any rotation w/ my hips. Is that part of the point? Or are you supposed to keep your hips flat and just twist the heck out of your upper body?

Here's my $0.02 on the pull bouy. Its used to help with balance in the water, and to get your legs up so you drag less. It lets you focus on your stroke without having to worry about kick, etc. Rotating with it will be hard as the bouy is fighting you.

Thanks Mike! I was forcing the rotation today and felt like it was more of a core/back workout than anything else.

Uh, no, ducking my head in shame. I was up to 12 before Ragnar and then gave myself a breather for a couple of weeks. They are definitely beneficial but Lord, they 'bout kill me. Since my weakness this cycle was getting my longs up (as well as race pace), I backed off of the intervals for a short time. But I started back with 6x and have been moving up 1 a week. I have a love/hate relationship with intervals. Love the sweat and the work to run faster but then by the time I'm finishing, I'm almost puking, I'm making horrible sounds, and I'm cussing up a storm at the end.

Carol, oh my, I would never be able to turn with a pull buoy. That would definitely hurt your back. I love the "water bug" feeling I get with the buoy tho. I feel like I'm skittering across the pool - free as a bird. Bet it's how Mike feels every time he swims.

I hate that I'm wimping out of my run tonight but I am. I got less than 4 hours sleep last night and then had a hellacious day where it was a struggle not to reach out and hit about 5 different people in the head (Wouldn't have hurt any of them tho because they have no flipping brains in their head.) Hubby and son about to go to the gym and I'm going to use the silence to do some stretches and some core work. Then I'll go to bed early and maybe, maybe, maybe won't kill anyone tomorrow. Don't I sound like a joy to be around and don't you all wish that you meet me in person?

The joy of intervals..... For me that meant 2x 12:00 at power 250 ish (22 mph) oy. then followed by 25 ish minutes at 20 mph 205 power. Then 20 min jog and 1 hour of strength training.

Pam those 8:00 intervals at LT/5k pace are so much fun. Feel free to alternate 800s with 1600s intervals. So for your 4 hour mary you are looking at 800s in 4:00 and mile repeats in 8:00 mpm. Enjoy.

Carol, although trainer road is fun with all those bells and whistles, if you can borrow someone's bike/trainer/trainer road or whatever you can get some guestimated power/speed info. My LT is 21.4 mph and 245 power. It is pretty amazing how my HR is not so well hooked up to power or mph on the trainer. So say you go to a store that sells the $1500-2000 power meters and give it a "test run" you could look at your power at your current comfortable pace (16mph?) then look at power at 17 mph, 18 mph 19 mph 20 mph 21 mph and get an idea for what that feels like looks like. It is not as much fun, but meh it would be something. With 5 data points you could calculate the power curve and then cross reference it to your speed and there ya go. So my take away from tonights workout is that I need to get into good enough shape to pull 245 power for an entire IM and be able to run afterwords. Fun....The Kona guy sustained like 285 power for the IM lol. I like the record book in trainer road, has the longest you have ever sustained power over 250 or whatever and tracks it each workout.

Edited by Baowolf 2013-11-18 11:11 PM

Steve, thanks for the idea on poor man virtual power . One of the local bike shops has a power studio (Cyclops w/ power taps) I could drop into for $12.50 for one session. But resistance, bike setup, etc. would all be different. I may just install the cadence sensor on my trainer bike, and let it go at that for now at home. I'm still able to get outside for most rides, and as long as that is possible, it is a tough sell for me to ride the trainer.

Hey everyone. I'm still hanging around....did some 1/4 mile speed, 1/2 mile recovery work today....oh the fun. I can see how that can really get you into good shape but I wasn't ready for it. I ended up doing about 4 miles worth of it...1 mile to our asphalt track and 1 mile back to my running partners house. It was a good workout...then I tried to help out my divorced friend with her life....and that's not fun. She's a mess emotionally and trying to get right back into things.....unforutnately, you can only say SLOW DOWN so much.

I have my basketball team for this season and that is going okay. I've already had some drama 2 practices in but nothing I couldn't handle Its too early to tell how the season will go but I suspect we'll be a PITA to play against...but our win/loss record may not reflect that. I'd like to ask all of you for prayers for a friend of mine. Today, he lost his father to cancer. My friend has had a tough go of it and is a recent (within the last 3 years) recovering addict. I fear that his fathers death may tip the scales toward a relapse...and he's been through too much for that to happen. His father was one of my youth coaches......he was one of the first people to believe in me as a person and an athlete....so I mourn as well but my concern is for my friend.

Thanks everyone and have a good day.

Jay, sending prayers. One of the best things that you can do for your friend (and his family) is tell them just what you told us. It’s a comfort to hear others state the impact someone had on their lives. And then for your friend, be there for him when everyone else starts drifting away. Does he have a sponsor?

I felt so guilty for blowing off my run last night that I got up early to do intervals. 8*800. Timed 3 of them and they were 3:15 to 3:45. Steve (and Carol), I like the idea of alternating mile interval sessions and I’ll do that next week. I think that would help me tremendously.

Question, what’s everyone’s suggestion for the long runs? In all of my other schedules, I went with the 3 20-milers as the final build. Enough? Once I went to 21 miles but it was more of a confidence builder and it proved to be beneficial strictly mentally. Once I had done a 50K 2 months before and in hindsight, I know that was more detrimental than helpful; all I can say is that I really learned to run slow during that time.

So I will call the 3 hour for your longest run rule. Even if you can go more than 20 miles in 3 hours though I probably wouldn't due to the need to recover for the next day's workout. Even the guys doing 70+ miles a week tend to break things up and not go over 20 in one setting. They might do 10 in the morning and another 12 in the afternoon, but typically not more than 20 in one set. It is just too hard on your body for no real return. With you running your 800s that fast I really think your mid range runs (6-10 miles ) should be faster than you are running them. Even your longest run should be a bit faster, maybe plan on the first 10 miles at an 11:00 mpm pace and then if you drift up to 12:00 mpm for the last 8 that's ok. Then the next week try to hold 11:00 mpm for 11 miles work that on up than make your goal 10:30, etc.

Jay, so sorry about your friends having such a rough time. They are fortunate to have you in their lives to be there, and to pray for them.

Pam, I am probably the last one who should give running advice, but I was just wondering what your marathon goal pace is? Also, am I right that you are about 8 weeks out? Whatever your goal marathon pace is, your mid-range runs (8-12 miles) I think should start approaching that. Another thought is on your long runs to begin to incorporate a few miles at the end that are marathon pace, but ONLY if you are running strong, even, and (mostly) pain free other than tired/achy that is normal on a LR. Another good thing to do is end each mid range workout with a few strides. It always seems like my legs would remember what they did last, and so it helped minimize initial slogging on the next run.

The plan that got me faster in the half Mary's has a similar marathon plan. I did not use it for the marathon, but if I had it to over again, I would. http://www.runningplanet.com/marathon-training-plan-for-beginning-c... Not saying to switch horses in mid stream, but if you need ideas for interval workouts to keep them interesting and dial in a good feel for different paces, that plan has some good ones.

Ha, well for someone who shouldn't be giving advice, I sure had a lot of it!

Thanks for the well wishes Pam and Carol. Pam, I did take your advice and posted what I told you all on my friends FB page. He seemed to appreciate it. Life is so complex, Mr. G wasn't a perfect man but he had a big heart. He always cared about the kids and loved watching us compete...he was a little extreme at times but his heart was always in the right place. Unfortunately, he had a bad side...he was a drug dealer...which he turned to after he got sick and couldn't work as a general contractor anymore. So my friend who has been an addict for years and is recovering was sort of lead down that path by his own blood.....tough stuff. I always try to remember that we aren't God and aren't called to judge...Mr. G found Christ with his son and both were saved a few years ago. Conversations as an adult with my HS friends are tough when it involves Mr. G...most think he's an ******* because he messed up his son...but I never saw it that way. Sorry for rambling...his wake is tomorrow...maybe someday one of my kids I'm coaching will feel as strongly about me as I do about Mr. G's influence on me.

This is hard for me to type but I have to.....Steve, you were right! The best thing I did was scale back my running last week because I felt great on my 14 miler today. It was the same course that smoked me for 13.1 two weeks ago....I didn't do much different but I felt a lot better. My legs didn't feel completely fatigued with the hills like they did a few weeks back...still not setting any pace records but just putting miles back on these legs. As I look toward training for 2014, I need to remember the 3 weeks build, 1 week relax method.

Jay, really happy you are training smarter 8) and feeling the effects. All training plans have a 3rd or 4th week recover in them. So even if not on a formal plan it is good to dial back regularly to rest up. Glad it is working for you. Speed will come down the road, pleanty of time to abuse the speed component once that base gets a bit better. Fun for me today was 7x 1 mile repeats at 7:00 mpm ish pace, 40F, 15 mph wind and rain, brr should have brougth the gloves.

Hmmm...so today I did my last outdoor ride for a while. Big cold front should arrive tonight. Getting my 80 miles/week in on the bike is about to get harder. May have to download some movies to watch.

Jay, hope the wake for your former coach went well. Good for you for being high on grace, and low on judging him. So glad to know he accepted that same gift eternally through Christ!

Jay, Carol said it best that you are being high on grace. So glad that he did accept Christ. I was thinking about everything you said tonight during my run. I had an incredible experience years ago at a retreat. It's extremely hard to describe without sounding weird or new-agey or whacko. But there was something that made me realize what it would be like when we get to heaven. And I could see faces of people I loved, people I didn't know, people that I kinda didn't like, people that I never thought would care... I realized that would be like heaven because we will see people in heaven that we never would think would be there - and we will be thrilled that they are there. And they will be thrilled to see us there. I'm glad Mr. G will be there - even if some of those other people can't let go of their earthly resentment now.

Carol and Steve, thanks for the ideas of the long runs. Carol, I like that plan and will definitely use it some other time and see if I can incorporate it into my current plan. Although I don't think the plan has a 20-miler the day after TG and you know from my PM that just doesn't fit into my plan. ;-)

And Steve, I heard you and I realized you are right. I started out tougher on this training cycle and I've gotten wimpy on it since then. Can't figure out if it's fear or laziness. I think it's laziness. Would you believe that my marathon running pastor did a sermon on this very thing last weekend? I've got to start working harder. I need to start running with confidence.

I'll be off the grid for several days. We have a mini vaca for this weekend. Hope everyone has a great weekend!

Uh, so how does a Texan describe a 'cold' front? The mid 50's?? . My BIL from Southlake is coming here this Sunday and staying all of Thanksgiving week. The high temp for the WEEK will be 52. Low around 15. They are going to freeze .

I just finished the most awful bike workout I've ever tried. It called "A Very Dark Place" from the sufferfest and its pretty basic - 8 min warm up, 5x4" flat out intervals, with 3 min between. Lots of sprints, attacks, etc during the intervals as well. 5 min cool down. It was pure torture, but I did it. Using Trainer road with it made it much more fun, and it pushes you to keep pushing. I urge everyone to try it.

I'm actually happy I got on the bike at all as I wasn't feeling too great and was thinking of bagging it for some sleep. But while waiting for dinner to settle, I received an email from the WTC/Ironman folks with some highlights of Kona. It got me so fired up I had to go jump on the bike! the email was a sign I had to get off my butt

Hope everyone has an awesome Friday!! I'm going to bed.

Pam, I totally get it with not wanting to do LT work. In my current plan I am hitting LT in 1 sport for intervals every day of the week. It is tough. The thing is you have so much base in that it would be a shame to not do that last step of getting the speed faster for your mary. You have the base to maintrain it come race day, but have to get used to doing it.

Mike what kind of power did you hit for your all out effort (averaged over the 4 minutes).
My workout 3x 30 seconds flatout (400Power) 30 recovery, 4x 30 sec 1 leg drills, 2 x 12:00 at LT (251 power), then 20 minutes Z3 (power 205) with 5:00 at 115 rpms.


Edited by Baowolf 2013-11-21 11:53 PM

Steve -- TR had a bunch of drop outs on the power measurement, but from what is there I averaged 247 for the most part. FTP is 200, so I'll take it . The recovery sectionss are done at just 50% of FTP, so they're really easy. Overall avg power was 211, and TSS was .88, so I did beat myself up pretty good .

During the final sprint of the last internval (330 watts continuous for 30 seconds) my heart rate hit 189 which I found to be a bit eye opening.

Solid work. I try to hold 245 to 255 for the 10 to 12 minute LT efforts with more workouts being 205-215 overall. It does beat ya up. Hopefully we can get some actual speed benefits out of all this next season.

Ha, your BIL may actually get warmer coming there. We are not supposed to get out of the 30's again until Tuesday!

Sounds like you guys are tearing it up on the trainer. I, on the other hand, rode for an hour this morning watching the first half of a movie. My watts were probably in the single digits . Then off to the pool for a short swim. Glad it was short because the pool water was so warm it made me nauseous. It is closed next week, but I think I'll be able to catch a couple of swims a few miles up the road.

Friday swim day, went well again, fastest 50 was 6 seconds faster than last week (ya only 1 set at that speed) but main set was 1-3 seconds faster as well. Broke my pull cords during tubing work, had to repair them again. Maybe it is time to put that on my santa list. Shoes and tubing. Short list.

Nice to see you making swim progress, Steve! Good thing Christmas is coming.

Pam, meant to mention earlier...yeah, under no circumstances should you alter the plan for the post Thanksgiving run!

Continuing to explore my options for entertainment on the trainer. Today was laptop + noise cancelling headphones + loading up the book on tape that is now past due at the library. Since I'm not driving to visit my friend anymore, I wasn't sure when I'd get the chance to finish listening to it. Problem solved! Ha, the more I ride, the sooner I can return it, and the less my library fine will be. It's like I'm being paid to ride...well...sorta.

Samantha, if you check in once in a while, let us know how you are doing. Have you had your surgery? Were you able to take the trip?