Baowolf's Mentor Group- Closed (Page 63)

did a bit of a swim/bike brick today. Went with my wife and my neice who is up from Texas. She is on her HS swim team, and swims about 6000-7000 yards a DAY in practice. She's a rather good swimmer . I did 1900 yards and then headed home and did a horrific bike workout. its a 10 minute warm up, then 15x1 minute all-out intervals with 1 minute rest between. Brutal, but a fantastic challenge. I'm kind of looking forward to doing it again. But not tomorrow

Enjoy Thanksgiving, everyone. Be sure to take a moment to appreciate all the blessings you have, and to appreciate your friends & family. My only workout tomorrow other than my eating muscles will be the annual town Turkey Trot at 7:30 AM. Forcast calling for 18 degrees at race time. Brrrrr!!!

@Steve
My workouts are confusing, my 20 weeks IM training starts first week of December. I am just doing volumes of biking right now
For my Full Iron Relay, HITS Palm Springs( I'm the bike dude). I also try to cross train to running. I want to have a feel of a Full Iron Tri.
More data of my workouts is in my Garmin link ,see Sig below, it's open to the public.

For now advice on how i pace this Iron Century ride would be most helpful.. Thanks in advance

@Jim, Carol, Jay
Thanks for the warm welcome.

Cheers everyone, train safely

Karl



Edited by strykergt 2013-11-27 3:10 PM

Total bummer, my friend did indeed go on a bender and cancelled basketball. It kills me because I put off my long run to make sure I don't put too much on my AT too soon. I'll have to chat with him on Friday about this. As Mike will atest, the weather here was horrible so there was no chance at going out for a run....plus, when basketball was cancelled, my wife put her hostess claws into me so running errands and helping clean the house was my order for the day. No Turkey Trot for me tomorrow...unless an inmate gets unruly...then it'll be a sprint. Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

Quick checkin since I need to finish packing. Off to in-laws first thing tomorrow morn.

Karl, Welcome!!!!!!! You've got to be good with a name like that. (My hubby is Karl with a K.) Steve is the best mentor and you will love this group. We have Type A and Type B and injured. Steve gives great advice to all.

Jay so sorry about the parents of your team and your friend causing you to miss your highly anticipated basketball game.

Jim, great news about your wives surgery. Let us know how all goes.

Tempo run tonight and I worked my azz off. 5.4 miles in 48 minutes. I was exhausted afterwards. Steve, thank you for the pace info. I'm really going to try to hold those faster paces longer. Thank you!!!!!

Hope all of you have wonderful and blessed Thanksgivings!

Pam

Thanks for the Welcome!! and Happy Thanksgiving too!! im working night before and night on turkey day.
Care to let a newbie know please
Whats "Type A,Type B" ????

Thanks

Hi all! Happy Thanksgiving.

Just wanted to stop in and make sure you all knew I was still alive. I saw Mitzi is back... Awesome. Knew member as well, Karl. Welcome

I am still here. The baby is now 8 weeks and getting a bit easier. Still exhausted but we're handling... Getting some running in, not much but I am looking forward to start my IM trainin soon!

Type A is like, HI my name is Bob I have not done any exercise for 20 years so on a bet over beers I decided to sign up for an Ironman in 10 days, where do I start..... The more typical version is a hard driving often even successful person who has used their high energy to excel at whatever they do, but tend to underestimate how much time it takes to get in shape for marathons and IMs. They tend to want to do speedwork on day 1, take no rest weeks and want to brute force their way to a sub 20 minute 5k. These are the folks I will try to reign in and remind them that it takes 5 years to get fast in any of the three sports at distance unless your parents have Olympic medals, in which case ya they will be doing 15 minute 5ks on 2 months of training.

The type B types tend to have a good work ethic, tend to not be in admin but are the backbone of any organization, they will put in overtime, work on holidays, stay until the job is done. They have learned that most big projects are accomplished by putting in the time and wearing away at it. In triathlon they tend to be very reliable on workouts, hit the duration, build their base, do everything right.... until it comes time to start increasing the intensity of their workouts. Unlike the Type A types, Type B's tend to like to keep their heart rate below 160 rather than over 200.

So we have a buddy system, our Type A's encourage our Type B's to hit that 15 interval repeats at LT on the bike workouts and our Type B's remind our Type A's that the doc said to not run a marathon on that leg for another 6 months, perhaps it would be prudent to at least wait until the cast is off before parachuting, or running a marathon.

So for me today Turkey Trot 5k = 20:44 or 6:42 mpm pace. That is a 48 second improvement over my 21:32 5k TT 3 weeks ago, but I still have a ways to go to be back in shape (best 5k 18:33). It was however, fast enough to get me a 1st place overall men's win (small local event). But Brr 28F. There was a guy right on my heals at mile 1, but once I settled into my pace he slowly drifted back. Happy with the run for where I am in my training. However, this means that all my LT run work will no have to be faster too....

Happy Thanksgiving guys. Take care of yours, especially those babies. When our first baby was born we were all worried that you know something might happen, they stop breathing or you don't do X when you need to etc. By the 2nd night we figured ya the baby was gonna get her needs met, but we were less sure that we were going to survive. Hang in there, 2 more months until you get to that happy baby who is starting to crawl around and get into trouble rather than just ringing the take care of this bell.

@ Steve.

Congrats on the Flash Turkey Run!!

Type A and Type B , kinda hard for me to identify myself since i try so much to be Type B , but I have the tendency to be Type A and over do it
I'll do my best to be Type B.

@Steve and Everyone

you mentioned about IM nutrition plan

Tentatively My nutrition plan for for 140.6

Swim:Estimate 2 hours.
Before Swim 3 Roctane Gu

Bike: Estimate Time 7-7.5 Hrs. under Zone 2 pace only1
1Gu/ 30 mins=14 total
ill bring bottles total of 154 Oz..(Skratch) I may need double that for the distance
ill just be bringing skratch powder , get water on stations and mix along the way.

Run:6 hours estimate
Fuel Belt -4- 9 Oz.
w/Concentrated Skratch , just sip skratch plus water at stations.
and 1 Gu/ 45 mins. = 7 total

Note:
During training i will be using Mix of Gatorade and Skratch, mostly Gatorade and Skratch just to get my gut to get use to it.
Skratch is too expensive. For some reason Gatorade works ok in training but just cant sit well in my gut during race day.

Steve and everyone I appreciate any advice better to know now before training so i can start to practice it.

Happy Thanks Giving Everyone Again

Cheers

Karl

2 hours before race 200 ish calories (powerbar, half pbj, whatever works for you),

Swim:Estimate 2 hours.
Before Swim 3 Roctane Gu (1 Gu not x 3, taken 15 min before the swim)

Bike: Estimate Time 7-7.5 Hrs. under Zone 2 pace only1 - at (mid z2 not below Z2, can hit Z3 on hills but then recover into Z2 again)

7 hours = 7 x 325 calories = 2275 ish calories (14 GU = 1400, calories need to make up 900 ish calories somewhere)
Mixing anything on the go during an IM when you think you will be close to the cutoff time (8hours) is bad plan. Premix 1 bottle on the bike and 1 in special needs (half way point) to supplement those 900 calories. I recommend something like infinit, perpendium, etc. in one bottle or 2. It will be tricky, though some folks do it with 14 gels on the bike.

I personally have 1 bottle of infinit 1100 calories on the bike and a second one premixed in special needs = all my nutrition add water for the hydration.

If it is not 100+F you are unilikey to be drinking more than 130 of fluids on the bike, probably closer to 100. How are you going to carry your fluiids, aerobottle, neverrreach? Also you only need 1 bottle of water at a time on the bike, and 1 unit of calories (bottle or gu,. whatever) you don't want 30 pounds of fluid on the bike at once 8).


Run:6 hours estimate: 6x200-250= 1200-1500 calories on the run. 7 Gu = 700 calories, = 500-700 calories to be made up with your Skratch? Mixing on the run will be also not so much fun and higher math skills won't be working so well either, best to premix as needed before the race 2nd bottle in special needs as needed. Need to be really careful to not overhydrate on the run = sloshy stomach if calories and water from aid stations.

So am 200 cal, prerace 15 min 1 gu, bike 300-350 cal/per hour, 10-20 oz of water per hour depending on temp, run 200-250 calories per hour.

Tell me more about Skratch, powered calorie mix with electrolytes?

Ask questions if this is not clear, you want your IM nutrition to be as simple as you can make it.

Hey EveryBody!!!!
Happy Thanks Giving!!!!
I echo Mitch about the Baby is great she is 2 months and I am only getting running in as well. I am eating way to much HaHa!! Time to kick it in!

@ Steve

Thanks a bunch for the detailed plan above , its very informative and helpful.
Just printed your last reply and filed in my training binder w/ my training plan, ill study it more carefully.

The Skratch labs specs mentioned
per serving is :
Calories:80
Carbs: 20g
Potassium: 40mg
Protein: 0g
Sodium: 310mg
Sugars: 20g

I believe one serving is one scoop : 1 scoop= 16 Oz.

Steve here's my hydration set-up on my bike

Back of my seat:2X24 OZ bottle=48 Oz
In between aerobars: 1XAerodrink: =32 Oz,
@ Down Tube:1XSpeedfill Standard=40 Oz

Total= 120 Oz
8 servings = 640 Calories.
I could mix it to be concentrated to make up for the 900 Calories.

Steve how does "special needs" work? on HITS Full , i did not encounter it on my previous Half.

Steve let me know what could be most helpful for me on the bike.
I dont mind re-arranging my set-up i am very flexible and open.
I think you are the one who mentioned it in one of your posts before.
The "Bike" can make or break the race.


Thanks again

Cheers

Karl










Edited by strykergt 2013-11-29 6:11 AM

Steve -- nice run! Congrats on the 1st place. Did get a laugh out of the Type A/B bit above .

Karl -- welcome aboard!

My turkey trot left the gate without me. Seems I woke up 5 minutes after the start of the race. Oops. Not setting the alarm isn't going to help me get there on time. If anything I have a new workout t-shirt

Back at it today after taking yesterday off. Hopefully I'll feel the need to eat today, although at the moment I can't imagine that happening after yesterday's festival of overindulgence.

Good morning everyone. Mitch and Jared, great to see you guys back here and enjoying your little ones! Hope you guys are getting some more time to yourselves as the little ones develop and sleep becomes more consistent (hopefully!)

Steve, congrats on first place in yesterdays Turkey Trot! I didn't have a sprint yesterday as eveyone decided to behave during the day. Mike, how did your trot go? Edit: Bummer Mike, just saw your post as I was typing this. Hope you can get back at it today...I'd love to get in a few miles myself.

I haven't done a full IM yet but I believe that a special needs bag is placed at mile 56 of the bike and 13.1 of the run. As Steve mentioned, you can put in additional nutrition so you don't have to carry as much with you during the first half of your bike/run. I've also read people leaving first aid items in their special needs bags in case of blisters etc and some have written letters to themselves to keep their motivation up. Some spouses have left cards/letters for their racer to help keep motivation up.

Steve, I've never used Skratch but I am familiar with the product. My understanding is that it is a competitor of UCAN Generation.

Karl, I've used Infinit and I'd strongly suggest looking into it. What I really like about the product is that you can customize your own blend based on your needs. My blend is very high in sodium because I've had cramping issues and its worked well for me. My personal experience is that you want to turn down the flavoring on it....I've done marys on Infinit and it gets too much for me bc I assumed it was a product that needed MORE flavoring to taste decent. Some ideas to consider...I just started using Gerber Graduates banana/blueberry and I love it...only 80 calories but good taste and didn't bother my stomach. I've also been using a bar called Amrita bars....NY company that uses natural products....consistency is similar to a LaraBar.

Steve's explaination on Type A/B is pretty much spot on. I would know nothing about being a Type A or wanting to do a marathon shortly after an injury however......

Edited by medeiros13 2013-11-29 6:43 AM

Happy recovery day! Anyone doing sprints at the black Friday events today?

Steve, I think you invented a new phrase "TTTT". Great job on the Turkey Trot time trial. Glad you are feeling strong and building speed!

Jay, sorry about your friend ditching basketball and friendship for a less healthy alternative. Sad, but not much you can do except pray and be there when he is ready. Glad there were no impromptu sprints!

Mike, ha, you got a sleeping PR! Probably good not to be tempted to not do too much too fast too soon with that turkey trot. I need to meet your niece so maybe some of her fins will rub off on me! Wednesday I resorted to asking the random lifeguard for tips on my swim stroke.

Karl, I've only done up to OLY distance for tris, so my nutrition advice would not be worth much. Good for you for working on that aspect now so you can tweak things as needed.

Jared and Mitch, wow, can't believe it's been two months already! Happy 1st thanksgiving to your expanded families!

Pam, nice tempo run for you! And betting you are out on that long run about now. Enjoy

Elena, happy thanksgiving to you! Hope you enjoyed good times with family!

Jim, hope your Big Bear weekend is going well!

Mitzi, how goes it for you with the holidays thrown in the mix?

Samantha, miss you girl! Let us know how you are doing when you get a chance.

Got in a 1 hr trainer spin before the family arrived yesterday, but a little light on miles so far this week. However, looks like we will hit mid 50's with sunshine this afternoon, so I plan to catch up outdoors!

Edited by squirt 2013-11-29 10:04 AM

Opps Jay saw through my obscure example for Type A's.

Karl, it sounds like Skratch is like Gatoraid. I would look into a more concentrated calorie drink. As I said Infinit, Heed, Perependium, etc. all make powders to mix with water to get you in the triple dose calorie range of 1100 calories in 1 16-24 oz bottle. You then don't have to worry about opening gels at all during the bike. It can be a distraction and if cold fingers don't work so well, if rainy packages are slippery. You do not want to cary more than say 40 ounces of water with you on the bike at a time during an IM. I like the duel chamber podiumquest aerobottle. It is all I use for IM. I use the whole 140oz on the frame for training. One chamber caries the Infinit/powdered calorie mix, the other caries the water. You just top off the water at every aid station.

You don't have special needs for a HIM, because you are finished with the bike by the time you get to the 56 mile mark. So ya bike special needs at mile 56, run at 13.1 ish. If you are going to be in after dark you need a headlamp and jacket in your run special needs. Basically Special needs is just a bag to put whatever you want in there (spare Co2, tube, bottle of infinite). Run, jacket headlamp, maybe gloves if it is going to be cold.

I change from infinit on the bike to gu on the run for a change of taste, consistency.

Thank you for all the well wishes!

Steve, very nice race! You've come along way!

Nice to see you Jared!

Mike D - You probably needed the rest! I've done that before as well.

Karl - Years ago Steve gave me advice on my nutrition for my first Ironman and he was spot on! I use Hammer Brand Nutrition. I have a bad stomach and it seems to help me a lot. Perpetuem is what I use in my bottles...

Looks like I'll get to start ramping up a bit. I've never tried to follow an exact plan before but I'm thinking of looking into one. Any advice on plans would be greatly appreciated..

Happy training!.

@Steve
I see your point i am carrying too much hydration and i am losing time in opening packets.I was considering Podium quest Dual before , but cant find availability in Houston. I do have a good equivalent the AqualCell Dual Chamber 27Oz/17Oz.. I am seriously looking into Infinit or Hammer gel Fluid n a flask .I'll try a Hydration set up of Aquacell 44Oz and i will keep my cages at the back of seat for the water bottle passed along the way.
I'll try it on my Iron relay next week.

@Mitch
Thanks for the welcome. Congrats on the little one.

I am a fan of Hammer before, I used Perpeteum, but the preparation for a 2+ hour bottle is just a bit for me i have to use a blender because of its thick consistency and the life of the mixture does not last. A bad weather could waste my prepared mix. I the tried Perpeteum solids they worked well like the mix , but then again i have to carry them i use 4 /hour. I then try Hammer gels they are ok too a little bit expensive. I just turned to Gu because its cheaper. I still do believe in Hammer seriously considering Hammer Gel Fluid in one bottle flask.

@Carol
Its cool, let me know of any cool Oly races at DFW area. Almost did Prairieman this year.

@Jay
Thanks for the back-up on the Infinit reading currently reading literature about it.

@Mike
Thanks for the welcome!

Happy Late Thanksgiving to Everyone

Cheers!!!

Catching up on everyone's posts. It's good to be back. Doing some weights, spin classes. Running one min, walk 2 a few times. Taking Steve's advice to start slow.

Good going Mitzi! Betting the patience will pay off for you on the run.

Karl, I liked the OLY's I've done in Austin (Cap Tex and Austin Tri). Both same venue downtown. Swim is in a narrow body of water so waves are minimal, hard to get off course, and when you breathe you see the Austin skyline. Multi loop bike course, so it takes you up to the state Capital bldg. a few times. Not too hilly by Austin standards anyway. Around here, I tend to like the events that Dallas Athletes puts on because they tend to be laid back and fun. They have a couple OLY's at Lake Ray Roberts that are nice (Texas Man in May and Disco in July). I did the US Open (LifeTime) a couple years ago, and didn't care for it too much. Had more of a formal feel, seemed more about pros/elites, relatively long run up big hill from water to T1. However, I'm one of those type b's that Steve mentioned, so you might love it.

25 miles outside on the bike yesterday, and going for another 15-20 today. Gotta seize the warmer weather! My troublesome rt. glute is making its presence known just from the biking, so been thinking about what I want to do on stretch/strength. Yeah, I know...thinking doesn't get it done.

Wit the infinit I am actually using tripple dose for the races. 3x2 scoups = roughly 1100 calories. And yes minimize the flavor. You do have to wash it down with some regular water from the front chamber. Then at every aid station you just top off the front chamber of regular water and toss the bottle. Then at the special needs (mile 56) you refill the calorie chamber and put that empty bottle on your downtube. You don't have to carry anything else during the IM race. In practice I can be 75 miles from water, so ya in practice I load the frame up with gallons of water, especially if it is 100F out. There will be calories at the aid stations on the bike and run as well. This year they had GU at the IM aid stations, so I didn't carry any water or GU with me and just lived off the course for the run. For the bike, I just picked up water when I needed it. It was really cold at IMLT so I only needed like 3 bottles of extra water all day on the bike. They have special gel flask holders for the bike, but I have seen those launched occassionally. The fasks would be easier than individual packets.

On my way home from Atlanta so letting the 15 yo drive and trying to read the posts on my phone. Typing on phone now so ignore strange autocorrections plz.

Laughed my butt off at Steve's explanation of type a and type b. my explanation would have been that type a is jay and type b are carol and me. Jay shame on you for lying and saying you are type b. Karl doesn't know us yet and may believe you. ??

Awesome job Steve on the turkey trot!!!!!! Did your sppedy kids race too?

So glad to here from Mitch and Jared.

I will completely stay out of all discussions on im nutrition since that would be like me explaining how to perform brain surgery.

Carol glad you made it the the holidays!

19.5 miles done yesterday. Parts were great. I'll post more later but phone batt dying

Hope everyone had a great TG!!!! So good to hear from so many people at this time of year.

Looked back over the post from my phone. So sorry for the bad grammar, lack of capitilization, and the autocorrect.

Nov totals
Run: 27h 28m - 149.5 Mi
Strength: 5h 10m
Race Volunteering: 3h 00m
Walking: 1h 15m

I've met many of my goals for this year. I wanted 20+ hours of volunteering and it's done. Wanted 1000 miles of running and met it; hope to actually get 1200 miles now. Wanted at least a plank minute for every day of the year and I've hit that; probably won't be planking too much in Dec since I have to have a pre-cancerous spot cut off of my arm next week and that will interfere with planks for a while. Since Carol started the crunch challenge this year, I went thru April and then set a goal of at least 500 crunches every week after that; hit it almost every week. Now my swim and bike goals........well, er,.....there's always next year. Strength goal of 100 hours is a little short and I don't think a killer Dec would meet it but it's better than past years.

Ok, now I'm going to ask for some help. What gets me is that I know better but dang, I always forget to focus on nutrition for a marathon. Yesterday this is what happened for my planned 20 miler. I went to in-laws and forgot chomps, nuun, gatoraid, and gels (and a hat). Stupid. Stopped by grocery store and bought fig newtons and pretzels but still forgot Gatorade. Had only 12 oz of water but the place had fountains (but then they were broken). In essence, miles 1 thru 10 were glorious (10min/mile Steve. I was trying so hard). At mile 8, ate a fig newton and mile 10 inhaled 2 pretzels sticks. I really think the water was on for that time period. Two more miles at 10:30 pace and instead of going to find more water, I try to live with the remaining oz or two because I didn't want to blow my good paces. The wheels came off at mile 15. I walked for over 4 minutes and was probably at a 13mm pace - maybe more. Not much water and a fig newton or two at mile 15. 3 more decent miles and then I limped around and finished at 19.5 miles in 3:34:00. I know now, I was dehydrated and definitely low on eloctylytes (sp?). I was low on calories too. So ideally, what should my strategy be for a marathon - let's say a 4:30 time? I weigh (gulp, I can't believe that I'll post this) 113 - 115 pounds. I always start out with at least 300 calories about 2 hours before a race. I use gels for HM but because the tummy revolts with multiple gels, I've been leaning toward chomps in training but haven't been real consistent with them - or maybe I should I say I haven't been diligent about researching how many I need. I tolerate Gatorade, Nuun, and other drinks well but I'm always very careful to have only water after chomps/gels/etc. So, give me some feedback and I'll incorporate for my next 20 miler. I know that no one has the answer for every person in every situation so rough feedback will work for me and I'll try it out. Thanks Everyone!

So first off, grats on the decent pace for the first 10 miles. Not so grats on dehydrating and uncalorifying yourself into a walk, and for running 34 min too long. So on the run you are looking at 200 to 250 calories per hour after the first 45 min, some wait until 60 min before starting nutrition on a mary. 1 Chomp = 25 calories, so 8-10 per hour of the chomps. Gatoraid is almost no calories, but if your tummy is grumbly you can use during the last 6 miles. You could start with GU for like the first 15 miles, then shift to chomps for the evil 16 through 23 miles and finish with just gatoraid would be a plan. Gatoraid just has so few calories, you would almost have to take in some chomps with them to make it through the last 3.2 miles. So if you are thinking 4:30:00 that is 500-650 calories. So 3 GU (300) 8 chomps (200) 8 oz of gatoraid 50 would about do it with starting calories at 1 hour. Your water intake in a winter mary will be pretty minimal. For IMLT for the marathon I did 3 oz of water mile 1, 1 gu mile 2, nothing mile 3, rince repeat, so 1 gu per 3 miles, but I was going slowly with the muscle issues and in cold weather. In not weather fluid intake could be 3 ounces every mile. I hope that helps. If not focus the question for me.

Edited by Baowolf 2013-11-30 8:11 PM

Check out these babies saw them at IMLT Amphipod Swift-Clip Cap Light. Lights that clip on your hat for the dark IM run. If you don't need em they are very lite and just stow away for a daylight finish, but if you are unsure, these are reallllly neat. Believe me having a headlamp strapped to your head for 5 hours can be um uncomfortable.

Also Trisports is having a 30% off sale which pretty much rocks, got my shoes for $65 instead of $110 and some other little things for the training year. GUs were in the 70 cent range. Worth a look if you need anything sale is good through 12/2.

Oh and November is in the bank, getting there: Show your numbers if you want to, don't have to.

Swim: 6h 06m - 12950 Yd

Bike: 17h 02m 50s - 334.35 Mi

Run: 14h 40m 18s - 112.86 Mi

Strength: 9h 55m

Edited by Baowolf 2013-12-01 1:14 AM

@Steve

I am settled on INFINIT apparently i dont have time to get them to mix it and ship it. I am eyeing on "Go Long" I just have to trust the plan having around 40 Ounces on my bike( lose the 80 Ounces) just saved me atleast 5 lbs. on the bike.

Might bring up a problem to you in a few weeks. Might turn in to Type A not by choice.


@Carol
Looks like CapTex Tri looks cool to me. I have not had an event close to the Capitol since MS150.

@Pam
I like your 20 miler splits i hope i can run fast like that. Training for a marathon?

Happy Training everyone.








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