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2011-11-08 7:39 AM
in reply to: #3893762

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Maple Grove, MN
Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED
Jackie,

I was looking at your log. I'm curious why you split your runs up into three separate runs (warmup, run, cool down). Not why you actually do the warmup and cool down, but why you make them three separate garmin workouts as opposed to just hitting the lap button.

BTW, there is no rhyme or reason to my asking. Just curious.


2011-11-08 7:40 AM
in reply to: #3436601

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Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED

Today: Spin Class: 01:10:00

Totals: 8 Days; 06:16:50

Looking forward to swimming tomorrow - 10 days in a row of leg based workouts - swimming is sounding good right now!

2011-11-08 7:49 AM
in reply to: #3436601

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Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED
I think I have approval from my "Admiral" to buy the new Garmin 910xt.  I'm getting increasingly frustrated with my Polar and the HR strap issues.  I'm convinced its a cold weather/outdoor thing related to the fabric of my shirts (synthetic), cold dry air, and some sort of a "short" between the HR reading sensors.  Very frustrating.  I'm going through old gear and other stuff looking for what I can eBay...also got a nice gift card for REI from the parents of the soccer team I coached - my goal is to fund the purchase 100% from "asset sales".  As a sidenote - for those with an REI near them I can not recommend that store enough.  They stand by everything they sell with a 100% return guarantee for whatever.  My wife had a Polar watch that she used for over a year and started having issues with it.  They exchanged it no questions asked.  Best gear store available.  They also have a bulk discount on energy gels - order 12 or more and you get a discount.  Order $50 and you can get free shipping too.  Just food for thought.
2011-11-08 7:54 AM
in reply to: #3436601

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Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED

Sorry that I am so verbose this morning -

Chris and Ernnesto - how did you transition from stability shoes to more neutral or minimal shoes?  I have the general idea but would be interested in your experiences.  I have a pair of Merrell minimalist shoes but am thinking of getting some of the Brooks Pure shoes with the minimal drop from the heel.  Thinking I could rotate between the two shoes?  I'm getting a treadmill in a week or so that is advertised to much more softer to run on than concrete/asphalt etc. so I'm thinking it may be a good tool to use in transitioning?  As always - your thoughts are appreciated.

2011-11-08 6:03 PM
in reply to: #3893519

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Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED
sirgab - 2011-11-07 9:10 PM

Today: Indoor bike training 1:00:20, 18.4 Mi

Total: 7 days, 5:43:58

On a separate note, today I visited a sports medicine physician to get the outer-right knee pain that I developed after the Chicago Marathon checked out.  Even thought I felt I was already getting better and able to run longer before it would show up again (at a lower intensity), I thought it would be good to get a knowledgeable opinion in order not to jeopardize anything for the longer term.

I seem to have a common injury for runners, a sore ITB muscle (goes from the hip to the outer knee) and can be caused by a number of factors.  In my case, I have some marked pronation which could be part of the cause (I already use shoes with support for pronators: Brooks Trance 9 and now Asics Kayano 17).  Today I got an injection to reduce the inflammation (supposedly faster than continuing with the ice/ibuprofen routine) and an appointment to get customized shoe insoles and a pelvic ex-ray.  

Has anyone tried customized insoles for running and if so, did they help at all? Anyone else had ITBS issues before and how did you deal with it?  Thanks! 

 

 

Hi gang long time im in the November race, but I notice that some are running more than 30 minutes, did I missed something?

Gabe,

A while ago I had a similar issue, a sports doc told me that I had what Ernesto translated in to "Mermelade" or something like that, I started to do some research the usual google and bing, well, I came across this video on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDhKVtkfnsg  and did the exercises and in about 2 to 3 weeks I starded to notice some improvement, today I still have some small pain but it is only after my runs and by next morning its gone, check them out

regards to all

2011-11-08 7:02 PM
in reply to: #3436601

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Maple Grove, MN
Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED
Today.

swim: (7 250 yard intervals. 3 with flippers). 40 min.
Run: 4.2 miles. 37:40.

Total: 8 days. 10h 10m 18s


2011-11-08 7:10 PM
in reply to: #3436601

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Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED

Hey guys, anyone cares to share their opinions on Vibrams? I started training again couple of weeks ago and the winter goal is to build a run/swim base.

I back to zero in running after the break due to my injury. So I am thinking of switching shoes... from the heavy, lateral supporting Nike Equalons to Vibram. Today I picked Bikalia LS on trial from a running store and have these for next few weeks.  

Just came back from a 20min jog and these kindda work different. My lower calves and feet are lot more tired and some workout in quads. How are these for the 'bigger guy'? Just trying to get things interesting for the run training. 

2011-11-08 7:27 PM
in reply to: #3436601

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Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED

Today, mini run (31'05"). Total 8 days, 7:24'18". Glad to know that everybody is so focused, it seems that we ALL are pretty darn competitive and commited. Nothing wrong with that! I'm a lucky mentor. Wink I also notice while looking a your logs that your workouts have goals and methods, not just going out there without rhyme and reason.

Everybody has come a long way and I'm proud, I hope that I did what I was supposed to do as a mentor and pass on what little I have learned from the sport.

2011-11-08 7:35 PM
in reply to: #3436601

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Maple Grove, MN
Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED
I'll post on Vibrams and Mitch's questions soon, but I would to report (ok brag brag brag) on a literal milestone.

I ran my 1,000th mile of 2011 today. 795 of those have been since June 12th, when I started training for my marathon.
2011-11-08 7:41 PM
in reply to: #3893777

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Maple Grove, MN
Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED
dangremond - 2011-11-08 7:49 AM

I think I have approval from my "Admiral" to buy the new Garmin 910xt.  I'm getting increasingly frustrated with my Polar and the HR strap issues.  I'm convinced its a cold weather/outdoor thing related to the fabric of my shirts (synthetic), cold dry air, and some sort of a "short" between the HR reading sensors.  Very frustrating.  I'm going through old gear and other stuff looking for what I can eBay...also got a nice gift card for REI from the parents of the soccer team I coached - my goal is to fund the purchase 100% from "asset sales".  As a sidenote - for those with an REI near them I can not recommend that store enough.  They stand by everything they sell with a 100% return guarantee for whatever.  My wife had a Polar watch that she used for over a year and started having issues with it.  They exchanged it no questions asked.  Best gear store available.  They also have a bulk discount on energy gels - order 12 or more and you get a discount.  Order $50 and you can get free shipping too.  Just food for thought.


Mitch,

The Garmins have the same problem with cold weather and the heart strap. Always screwed up for the first mile or so. Ernesto said I should buy some special lotion. I might. But I also just ignore my heart rate for the first mile.

But overall I am extremely pleased with my 305, and you can get those on Amazon every now and then for $130. (They are $160 right now for some reason). 405's are under $200 as well.
2011-11-08 7:44 PM
in reply to: #3894909

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Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED
ironbaby - 2011-11-08 7:10 PM

Hey guys, anyone cares to share their opinions on Vibrams? I started training again couple of weeks ago and the winter goal is to build a run/swim base.

I back to zero in running after the break due to my injury. So I am thinking of switching shoes... from the heavy, lateral supporting Nike Equalons to Vibram. Today I picked Bikalia LS on trial from a running store and have these for next few weeks.  

Just came back from a 20min jog and these kindda work different. My lower calves and feet are lot more tired and some workout in quads. How are these for the 'bigger guy'? Just trying to get things interesting for the run training. 

Careful on how you make the switch, the adaptations to minimal support take LONG periods. Keep in mind that for your entire life you have walked on shoes with lots of support, which I like to compare to a cast around a broken leg. It debilitates the foot and if you take the support quickly, your weak tendons and muscles will tear, twist and sprain.

Just like everything, take it easy, be patient and allow for trial and error.

I read some time ago that endurance training is like turning a styrofoam inside out. So long as you do it slowly you will succeed, go fast and "rip", you'll tear the cup. YOU ARE THE CUP.

Glad to know you're back. Try to make exercise a habit again, but slowly. 



2011-11-08 7:45 PM
in reply to: #3893784

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Maple Grove, MN
Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED
dangremond - 2011-11-08 7:54 AM

Sorry that I am so verbose this morning -

Chris and Ernnesto - how did you transition from stability shoes to more neutral or minimal shoes?  I have the general idea but would be interested in your experiences.  I have a pair of Merrell minimalist shoes but am thinking of getting some of the Brooks Pure shoes with the minimal drop from the heel.  Thinking I could rotate between the two shoes?  I'm getting a treadmill in a week or so that is advertised to much more softer to run on than concrete/asphalt etc. so I'm thinking it may be a good tool to use in transitioning?  As always - your thoughts are appreciated.



My transitioning was pretty easy because I was going from no running at all to running in Vibrams. (I had quit running because of hip issues). Main thing: gradually, gradually, gradually increase mileage. Do not run more than a mile your first time. Then increase mileage slowly. Bring other shoes to finish your run. Otherwise your calves will be so sore you won't be able to walk and you very well might injure yourself. I know at least three people who went out and ran 3 - 5 miles their first or second time, got injured, and then blamed the shoes. With minimal shoes, you are using muscles and tendons you haven't used in years or decades. It takes a long time to transition.

Edited by chris2533 2011-11-08 7:47 PM
2011-11-08 8:02 PM
in reply to: #3894931

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Maple Grove, MN
Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED
ernestov - 2011-11-08 7:27 PM

Everybody has come a long way and I'm proud, I hope that I did what I was supposed to do as a mentor and pass on what little I have learned from the sport.



Hey! This sounds like you're leaving us!
2011-11-08 8:46 PM
in reply to: #3436601

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Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED

EV, I am taking the same approach as what Chris said. Practically starting afresh on the run... 15mins at a time. No HRM, no distance, no goals. Just few mins every other day and add mins every week. 

This evening it felt a lot like running on the beach barefoot. Are same muscles used with minimalist shoes?

Chris - any recommendations on Vibrams? I was using Bikalia LS because they fit me more comfortably than KSO or Trek KSO. Are you going wear those through the winter or switch to treadmill?

2011-11-08 8:48 PM
in reply to: #3895036

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Maple Grove, MN
Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED
ironbaby - 2011-11-08 8:46 PM

EV, I am taking the same approach as what Chris said. Practically starting afresh on the run... 15mins at a time. No HRM, no distance, no goals. Just few mins every other day and add mins every week. 

This evening it felt a lot like running on the beach barefoot. Are same muscles used with minimalist shoes?

Chris - any recommendations on Vibrams? I was using Bikalia LS because they fit me more comfortably than KSO or Trek KSO. Are you going wear those through the winter or switch to treadmill?



I'm planning on wearing my bikila's with smartwool toe socks.
2011-11-08 8:59 PM
in reply to: #3436601

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Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED

Thanks gang for your good advice on dealing with ITBS and I decided to bail on implants and just work on stretching/strengthening exercises deal with it.  Chris, I read Born to Run at the beginning of the year and loved it, probably will read it again right now along with the famous Maffleton (I still haven gotten past 20% of it, so now would be probably a good time!)

Ernesto, you know this is kind of like the Mafia, you are stuck with us and cannot leave us now Wink

 

Today: morning run 6.6 mi, 00:58:03; Night swim 2,000 mts, 1:00:00

Total 8 Days; 07:41:59

 



2011-11-08 9:06 PM
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Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED

2.86 miles in 34:20

 

Day 8, Total - 7:02:54

2011-11-08 9:44 PM
in reply to: #3436601

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Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED

I never said I was leaving. C'mon!, this is just getting more interesting now.

Gabe, more swim. Join a squad, preferrably one of pure swimmers. You will be in the slow lane but it doesn't matter, because you're so driven that you will move up quickly. Trust me here, you should kick your swim up to 7 or 10K a week for IMTX.

2011-11-09 7:19 AM
in reply to: #3436601

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Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED

Today: SWIMMING! 00:30:00

Totals: 9 days; 06:46:50

2011-11-09 7:26 AM
in reply to: #3436601

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Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED

Ernesto:

I think the biggest compliment we could give you regarding your role as Mentor is to (1) ask if you are mentoring again and (2) ask if we can continue in the group.  I've come to appreciate your approach and am finding that I think you have me going in the right direction.  I hope to continue that next year!  Looking forward to continuing with you as a Mentor and with the rest of the gang.

 

Chris: 

My HR issue is that it works for about 2.5 miles and then intermittently for 1 mile then completely stops.  I had no issues at spin class yesterday and no issues earlier in the year while running outside.  I had similar issues last winter and they went away in the spring.  I think its because of the fabric rubbing on the HR strap and building a charge of some sort.  I'm obviously not an engineer.  I think I'll take the plunge on the 910xt due to its swimming capabilities.  I stink at counting laps and I think the swim efficiency data that it collects will be interesting over time.

Thanks Guys!

-Mitch

2011-11-09 7:27 AM
in reply to: #3895098

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Maple Grove, MN
Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED
ernestov - 2011-11-08 9:44 PM

I never said I was leaving. C'mon!, this is just getting more interesting now.



Ernesto,

I didn't actually think you were leaving. I was just making trouble.

Today: 1 h (and 1 second!) bike trainer ride.
Total: 9 days. 11:10:19


2011-11-09 7:39 AM
in reply to: #3895325

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Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED
chris2533 - 2011-11-09 7:27 AM
ernestov - 2011-11-08 9:44 PM

I never said I was leaving. C'mon!, this is just getting more interesting now.

Ernesto, I didn't actually think you were leaving. I was just making trouble. Today: 1 h (and 1 second!) bike trainer ride. Total: 9 days. 11:10:19
You're gonna be hard to catch (and Mark is right behind you), but we'll all try. How do you feel? Fitter? Is the spin class paying off?

Edited by ernestov 2011-11-09 7:43 AM
2011-11-09 7:51 AM
in reply to: #3895339

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Maple Grove, MN
Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED
ernestov - 2011-11-09 7:39 AM

chris2533 - 2011-11-09 7:27 AM
ernestov - 2011-11-08 9:44 PM

I never said I was leaving. C'mon!, this is just getting more interesting now.

Ernesto, I didn't actually think you were leaving. I was just making trouble. Today: 1 h (and 1 second!) bike trainer ride. Total: 9 days. 11:10:19
You're gonna be hard to catch (and Mark is right behind you), but we'll all try. How do you feel? Fitter? Is the spin class paying off?


I'm getting a little tired. But I'm done for the day. I didn't want to run yesterday after swimming, but did and felt good while running (8:58 miles at a 132 heart rate). Same thing for this morning on the trainer. Legs hurt at first. Got much better later in the ride and kept the heart rate constant at 132.

As for the cycling class, it is going ok. She is trying to do heart rate training, but my weak link is not my heart. My legs give out well before my heart rate gets too high. (and they give out well before the guys with tree trunk legs in the class). But the class can't hurt. If I go from zero to about 2.5 hours per week on the bike, I have to be building those muscles, although I don't really see it yet.
2011-11-09 8:01 AM
in reply to: #3895352

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Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED
chris2533 - 2011-11-09 7:51 AM
ernestov - 2011-11-09 7:39 AM
chris2533 - 2011-11-09 7:27 AM
ernestov - 2011-11-08 9:44 PM

I never said I was leaving. C'mon!, this is just getting more interesting now.

Ernesto, I didn't actually think you were leaving. I was just making trouble. Today: 1 h (and 1 second!) bike trainer ride. Total: 9 days. 11:10:19
You're gonna be hard to catch (and Mark is right behind you), but we'll all try. How do you feel? Fitter? Is the spin class paying off?
I'm getting a little tired. But I'm done for the day. I didn't want to run yesterday after swimming, but did and felt good while running (8:58 miles at a 132 heart rate). Same thing for this morning on the trainer. Legs hurt at first. Got much better later in the ride and kept the heart rate constant at 132. As for the cycling class, it is going ok. She is trying to do heart rate training, but my weak link is not my heart. My legs give out well before my heart rate gets too high. (and they give out well before the guys with tree trunk legs in the class). But the class can't hurt. If I go from zero to about 2.5 hours per week on the bike, I have to be building those muscles, although I don't really see it yet.

Bingo! One more time right on the money. One has to differentiate between cardiovascular fitness (you have a LOT) and muscular fitness (which for cycling you don't have much of). The good thing is that the latter is easier to attain. I'm pretty confident that you will be MUCH faster on the bike if you keep training through the winter.

On a different note, make sure you give yourself recovery time. If you feel tired, just do a thirty minute spin, run or swim at an easy pace. It will give me a chance to catch up too! jk... The volume is great but the biggest effect comes from adaptation to frequency which will not happen on tired muscles.



Edited by ernestov 2011-11-09 8:02 AM
2011-11-09 8:24 AM
in reply to: #3895352

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Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED
chris2533 - 2011-11-09 7:51 AM
ernestov - 2011-11-09 7:39 AM
chris2533 - 2011-11-09 7:27 AM
ernestov - 2011-11-08 9:44 PM

I never said I was leaving. C'mon!, this is just getting more interesting now.

Ernesto, I didn't actually think you were leaving. I was just making trouble. Today: 1 h (and 1 second!) bike trainer ride. Total: 9 days. 11:10:19
You're gonna be hard to catch (and Mark is right behind you), but we'll all try. How do you feel? Fitter? Is the spin class paying off?
I'm getting a little tired. But I'm done for the day. I didn't want to run yesterday after swimming, but did and felt good while running (8:58 miles at a 132 heart rate). Same thing for this morning on the trainer. Legs hurt at first. Got much better later in the ride and kept the heart rate constant at 132. As for the cycling class, it is going ok. She is trying to do heart rate training, but my weak link is not my heart. My legs give out well before my heart rate gets too high. (and they give out well before the guys with tree trunk legs in the class). But the class can't hurt. If I go from zero to about 2.5 hours per week on the bike, I have to be building those muscles, although I don't really see it yet.

Chris: I've done a ton of spin classes and trainer rides - agree that sometimes its not a cardio lijmitation but leg strength - especially when your legs are tired to begin with.  My last two classes I've felt similar to you - tired legs but very comfortable from a cardio perspective.  I've taken the stance that I follow the format of the class but don't worry about the HR targets they are shooting for.  I get time in the saddle, utilize some different muscles than running, avoid some of the impact of running, and as Ernesto points out increase my frequency of workouts.  As much as I struggle with swimming - it felt great to take a day off of running/cycling today.

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