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2011-04-14 2:04 PM
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Subject: RE: Razorxp Mentor group "sickies" CLOSED

cheekymonkeys1 - 2011-04-15 2:56 AM Ok, this is a 'WWGD' question......... I'm going to be in NY over Easter (lol anybody else feel a 'LP route' drive on my horizon?!) anyway, there just happens to be a HM at Lake George that weekend. I'm SO tempted to do it as a 'training run'. Its such a beautiful area. I did 10 miles last weekend and felt good. If I just went for fun? Good idea? Bad idea? What would group do?

I say go fo it.  You have to log a long run anyway right? It's not like you have a major race the next weekend...Run girl Run!



2011-04-14 2:06 PM
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Subject: RE: Razorxp Mentor group "sickies" CLOSED

I guess I am pointing now that I think of it.  I should relax I suppose...

tmoran80 - 2011-04-15 2:53 AM

It could also be that you are not kicking correctly.  Do you use kick board during your workout?  Are you tensing up your feet trying to keep them straight?  It is really weird that your foot cramps up.  Maybe try wiggling your feet every 100 yards or so just to stay loose.  I also jsut started using fins to help with my kick.  i think theere are mixed reviews on this but it helps me get the feel of it and strengthen my legs.

I always try and incorporate both the pull and the kickboard into every workout.  If you are going to use the pull you also might want to get some hand paddles to help strengthen your stroke.

Good luck.

trigator01 - 2011-04-14 1:08 PM

Is that the thing you put between your legs?  I have one of those.  Thanks for the advice, I'll try not kicking so much, see if that helps.

2011-04-14 2:28 PM
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Subject: RE: Razorxp Mentor group "sickies" CLOSED
razorxp - 2011-04-14 10:34 AM

Mary: nice run, I know the feeling about being oncall it messes everything up. My wife is oncall every 3-4 days and every 4th weekend.  After 8 years I still jump everytime that damn pager goes off. lol

Funny, because my husband doesn't wake up at all...  Pager goes off, I get up, answer it, go to the ER, come back and climb in bed, repeat... He hasn't moved and says, "Quiet night, huh?"

What does she do?

And my feet get cramps while swimming, too.  I'll be taking all that advice.  Anything for headaches while swimming?  I have a suspicion they are CO2 headaches from poor breathing technique...only happens on longer intervals, never on 100s or 200s.  Thoughts?

2011-04-14 2:30 PM
in reply to: #3446565

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Subject: RE: Razorxp Mentor group "sickies" CLOSED
kcgolf - 2011-04-14 12:15 PM

Coach - can you share that product information with everyone again on the OWS emergency floatation device that you can buy for around your waste again please. I want to order one on line and the rest of the group might like to look at it.

George, thanks for the heads up on amazon - I could use a new suit I think (one without a holster of course)

Thanks.

KC

This is the one I have, pretty sweet as you have some safety for cramps or if you freak out!!

http://www.triaids.com/SwimSafe.htm

2011-04-14 3:05 PM
in reply to: #3434497

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Subject: RE: Razorxp Mentor group "sickies" CLOSED

I had a weird swim this morning.  I felt terrible yet my times were faster than normal.  My right arm took along time to warm up and it has happened the last two swims now.  The HIM program I am doing has me doing alot of 200Y repeats.  Before that I was mostly doing 100Y.  Today I was doing some desending time 100's and was suprised each time I got to the wall to actually see them desending (haha) even though it didn't feel that way.

5 x 100Y -1:37, 1:33, 1:31, 1:27, 1:24

Then I was shooting for 3x100Y @ 1:31 and went 1:32, 1:30, 1:28

Like I said it was weird but I really think the longer distance intervals helped build a little speed.  Hopefully this gets me one step closer to my 1:30/pace 1000Y TT goal.

2011-04-14 3:06 PM
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Subject: RE: Razorxp Mentor group "sickies" CLOSED
KC - I have decided to officially call you the Assistant Coach of the group.Wink


2011-04-14 4:09 PM
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Subject: RE: Razorxp Mentor group "sickies" CLOSED

tmoran80 - 2011-04-14 3:06 PM KC - I have decided to officially call you the Assistant Coach of the group.Wink

I second!

2011-04-14 4:16 PM
in reply to: #3446975

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Subject: RE: Razorxp Mentor group "sickies" CLOSED
tmoran80 - 2011-04-14 11:53 AM

It could also be that you are not kicking correctly.  Do you use kick board during your workout?  Are you tensing up your feet trying to keep them straight?  It is really weird that your foot cramps up.  Maybe try wiggling your feet every 100 yards or so just to stay loose.  I also jsut started using fins to help with my kick.  i think theere are mixed reviews on this but it helps me get the feel of it and strengthen my legs.

I always try and incorporate both the pull and the kickboard into every workout.  If you are going to use the pull you also might want to get some hand paddles to help strengthen your stroke.

Good luck.

trigator01 - 2011-04-14 1:08 PM

Is that the thing you put between your legs?  I have one of those.  Thanks for the advice, I'll try not kicking so much, see if that helps.

Tim do you recommend a particular paddle. Ive been looking at few but cant decide.

2011-04-14 5:39 PM
in reply to: #3434497

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Subject: RE: Razorxp Mentor group "sickies" CLOSED

Hey Team - hope everyone is having a great day!

Tim - seriously? Assistant Coach Laughing - let me see - could it be because I have only competed in a Tri-A-Tri? Could it be because I can't swim 200 meters without water wings? Could it be my blinding speed running cross country when I was in grade 8? I know what it is that would support such a title, my prowess on the bike - that is it LOL. For more on my biking ability I invite all new members of this group to check out this link from our old group. Simply scroll about half way down to learn about my record breaking sprint of 3.7meters before my first tumble of the season - pictures included Embarassed.

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=236880&start=1821

Thanks for the kind thought but you have to earn that title! I think I am better at cheerleading. LOL (although, I do hold a mean clipboard)

Karen - I am jealous of your weather. Regarding your swimming and thinking way to much - join the club - that is all I do. Think about it - balance, high elbow catch, rotate to breath, head down to swim, look back to breath, front quadrant swimming, 2 beat, 6 beat, 9 beat, sight, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc........................................................ Then, Coach here told me to shut up and just swim - seems to work better to be honest. As far as cramps are concerned, you must have muscle tension - try kicking with some flippers.

Coach- I like the swim tip - breath when you need air - I am going to give that a try tonight -LOL- and add it to my list of things to think about (see above)Smile

Deb - wish I had an answer for your question about the HM. I guess if you are up to it and want to do it - why not?

Mary A - Thanks for support of Tim's suggestion, you are very nice Smile. As far as headaches are concerned, I got a few when I first started swimming and I think it was from my violent action of turning my head quickly when I was looking for air. I try to slow that down and move my head more with my body when I rotate and I don't get them anymore. 

Jen - For some advice on paddles, I use the speedo hydrosity (link here to speedo paddles) but I would suggest that if you buy some, do not buy them with a big surface area. A guy I met at the pool told me he got some that were to big and he hurt his shoulder using them. http://www.best-deal.com/search/landing/query/speedo+paddles/s/google/koid/1002484021/?gclid=CP2b0ZCBnagCFYjsKgodaWgsIw

For me today: cold and windy here today so I decided to pull the bike back out of the garage and put it back on the trainer (very depressing) and went for a nice 50 minute ride while watching the golf on the tube. Swim tonight - wish me luck!

Have a great night everyone.

KC

PS - since we now have a Jen in the group - this is for you Jen- one of my favorite movie quotes of all time - from Eric Liddell in Chariots of Fire and it goes something like this I think-

"where does the power come from Jennie, to see the race to its end? To win the race? It comes from within"

 



Edited by kcgolf 2011-04-14 5:57 PM
2011-04-14 6:26 PM
in reply to: #3434497

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Subject: RE: Razorxp Mentor group "sickies" CLOSED

In case anyone is interested - a chance to win a free bike - but you have to subscribe to a emailed newsletter - no charge.

http://triathlon.competitor.com/winthisbike

C Ya!

2011-04-14 7:04 PM
in reply to: #3446585

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Subject: RE: Razorxp Mentor group "sickies" CLOSED
IceManScott - 2011-04-14 11:23 AM
razorxp - 2011-04-14 10:46 AM
gabrelsj - 2011-04-14 10:33 AM

i have a topic for discussion.  i was reading on other threads about what is more important for a good race in longer distances- swim and bike fitness or a good run base.  i am starting to get the idea that a good swim and bike fitness will make the run a better experience than just good run fitness.  i feel like running is much harder after a few miles after a long ride than it is to run 10 or 12 miles alone.

there was a tri coach saying for an IM he does not want his athletes to run more than 16 - 18 miles for their long run.

any thoughts?

This is all about the coaches preferance and the athlete.  I guess it boyles down to are you racing or finishing. If you look at times of the 3k people under approx 500 actually Run the marathon (probably a high number more like 300), it turns more into a shuffle/walk for most.  I tend not to do long runs as they seem to injure me all the time but I have friends that work up to very long runs 25+.  I would say you need to find a plan for your body and be very flexible.

Great question.  I found a great answer from a group called Endurance nation.  They are a handful of coaches who do triathlon. Their position is that the race in an IM distance really starts no sooner than mile 18 of the run. Before that what you are doing is pushing that wall back beyond mile 18 as far as you can by making the right choices in the swim and the bike. Before that you are doing the proper amount of training on all three so you are as fit as you can be while making the starting line as injury free as possible. So Dave is right about the long runs in my opinion.  EN says don't run long beyond 2.5 hours at a time.  After that, the fitness gain is offset by the chance to hurt yourself.

Now, I think this philosophy total holds true on shorter distances too.   The run comes last so we will be the most tired at the beginning of the run than the other sports.  The swim goal for me becomes getting out of the water as quick as possible without suffering any strain.  You can't lose that much time in the water and you can't gain that much.  Swim = quick and easy, survival.  The bike is where I have to watch it because I can go out too hard. You can make up the most time on the bike so I tend to want to be in the best bike shape I can be - not so I can overdo it, but so that going harder and faster for a longer time is easier.  So when I only give it 90% on a short race rather than 100, I am still kicking young butt (sorry to the youngsters but I love speeding passed.)  On longer races, I might only do 75%.  The goal is to get through it as well as I can while still holding out energy for the run.  My coach uses a matchbook analogy.  You workout hard to gain as many matches in your book as you can before race day.  Then you only have that many to burn before the end.  You can't make matches on the course.  So when you go out too hard on the swim, the bike or the run, you are burning matches you may need later.  Be smart.

I love strategy.  It is so important to the overall result.

 

?

i have also heard the race starts at mile 18.  i also heard to expect the unexpected.  there are many plans out there to help one get physically ready for the distance but there is not much on the mental or strategy for the race. 

i know that when i am training sometimes i wonder why i am  doing  ????all this work but when i am finished i cant wait to start again.   i hope the race is like that as well.  



2011-04-14 7:07 PM
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Subject: RE: Razorxp Mentor group "sickies" CLOSED

cheekymonkeys1 - 2011-04-14 2:56 PM Ok, this is a 'WWGD' question......... I'm going to be in NY over Easter (lol anybody else feel a 'LP route' drive on my horizon?!) anyway, there just happens to be a HM at Lake George that weekend. I'm SO tempted to do it as a 'training run'. Its such a beautiful area. I did 10 miles last weekend and felt good. If I just went for fun? Good idea? Bad idea? What would group do?

 

Do it and have fun!!

2011-04-14 7:08 PM
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Subject: RE: Razorxp Mentor group "sickies" CLOSED
tmoran80 - 2011-04-14 3:05 PM

I had a weird swim this morning.  I felt terrible yet my times were faster than normal.  My right arm took along time to warm up and it has happened the last two swims now.  The HIM program I am doing has me doing alot of 200Y repeats.  Before that I was mostly doing 100Y.  Today I was doing some desending time 100's and was suprised each time I got to the wall to actually see them desending (haha) even though it didn't feel that way.

5 x 100Y -1:37, 1:33, 1:31, 1:27, 1:24

Then I was shooting for 3x100Y @ 1:31 and went 1:32, 1:30, 1:28

Like I said it was weird but I really think the longer distance intervals helped build a little speed.  Hopefully this gets me one step closer to my 1:30/pace 1000Y TT goal.

 

tim-  with those times you are a fish!!  that is awesome.

2011-04-14 7:13 PM
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Subject: RE: Razorxp Mentor group "sickies" CLOSED

cheekymonkeys1 - 2011-04-14 1:56 PM Ok, this is a 'WWGD' question......... I'm going to be in NY over Easter (lol anybody else feel a 'LP route' drive on my horizon?!) anyway, there just happens to be a HM at Lake George that weekend. I'm SO tempted to do it as a 'training run'. Its such a beautiful area. I did 10 miles last weekend and felt good. If I just went for fun? Good idea? Bad idea? What would group do?

 

when is your HIM?

2011-04-14 7:17 PM
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Subject: RE: Razorxp Mentor group "sickies" CLOSED

cheekymonkeys1 - 2011-04-14 2:15 PM Am posting while at work (sshhhh) and my device won't allow for proper spacing, sorry.George - you want shoes, not sandals. They would probably be fine for, uhm well, I'm not sure. Just get shoes, you won't regret it. ( until you're clipped in and fall over a few times. lol). Dave - nutrition coach was a bust. She essentially follows Nancy Clark's reasoning and said 'more calories', and I gained even more weight. I have reduced down to 1,500 and I'm not refueling any workout that is under 1 - 1.5 hours now, in the hopes of stopping the damage.Keith, I am not 100% on cranberry. You might want to take a look at this race too. It's almost at the end of the season and VERY laid back, I.e I 'think' we got bib numbers, no USAT fees etc. It's in stiles pond and is just a really fun ( and cheap $40) one to do. www.calltohonortri.org in honor of a local officer killed on duty.

 

I agree you really want shoes. 

These are the shoes I have and I really like them.  I don't have anything to compare against though since this is the first bike I have had with clipless pedals.

http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_170216_-1_202642_10000_202362

The pedals are similar to these.

http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_175584_-1_201502_10000_202363

 

I really do like them though.

2011-04-14 7:21 PM
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Subject: RE: Razorxp Mentor group "sickies" CLOSED

18 Miles on the bike this evening averaged 15.6.   I need to get faster but I feel better than last year at this point.

Also did 2100 yds in the pool, finished in 46:20.  I am very happy with my swim, last year at this time I was averaging 3:00/100 on 500 yd swims.  I think I will be much quicker with wetsuit on as well as I have a tendency to stop kicking and my feet start to sink.

This is going to be an active group, glad to be part of it.  Well I am hungry and it's time to eat.



2011-04-14 8:57 PM
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Subject: RE: Razorxp Mentor group "sickies" CLOSED

Hey Team.

Bad night in the pool tonight - oh well - better luck tomorrow.

Hope everyone had a good day.

Off to the wrapper.

KC

2011-04-14 9:23 PM
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Subject: RE: Razorxp Mentor group "sickies" CLOSED

Whats's a bad night in the pool?  You lived, right? You had to learn something, doing something right or realized you did something wrong.  The only bad workout is the one I miss.

Tim, You rock in the pool.

Deb, if you are feeling healthy, have the time to recover, why not go play? You probably need another T shirt, right   I feel for you on the food thing.  They want me to eat 2600 for resting metabolism plus whatever I'm burning.  Hell, that is 4,000 plus most days.  Who can eat that much?  I'm only at 2,000 today with a snack tonight.  I may go eat some popcorn just to add some cals. On long workout days I'm practicing fueling, 250-300 cals/hour usually a fluid like GiU in water or Carbo Pro in Powerade Zero.  Those days I'm getting up to 3,000 in but that is still low.  Everyone says I'm in starvation m,ode but I feel good, sleeping good, no energy letdowns.  And I got into size 32 shorts and they fit over the weekend!  So what the hell.   

Toes cramping?  Do you stretch in your cool down?  Foam rollers? 

Thanks for the link to the bike...it's mine.  Actually if I won one, I have got a couple of guys hooked on triathlon, one last year, the other this year.  I'd pass it on.

I swam with the Masters this morning working on stroke efficiency.  That is my big deal right now, down 17-20 for 25 yards. I did a light bike I wasn't scheduled for - 60 mins with single pedal and high cadence drills to raise my metabolism for the weight and PT I was scheduled for.  Yoga, rollers, all good.

 

 

 

 

 

 

2011-04-14 9:53 PM
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Subject: RE: Razorxp Mentor group "sickies" CLOSED
gabrelsj - 2011-04-14 8:13 PM

cheekymonkeys1 - 2011-04-14 1:56 PM Ok, this is a 'WWGD' question......... I'm going to be in NY over Easter (lol anybody else feel a 'LP route' drive on my horizon?!) anyway, there just happens to be a HM at Lake George that weekend. I'm SO tempted to do it as a 'training run'. Its such a beautiful area. I did 10 miles last weekend and felt good. If I just went for fun? Good idea? Bad idea? What would group do?

 

when is your HIM?

June 18th - 9 weeks on Saturday. (64 days,8 hours and 23 minutes actually) Surprised

2011-04-14 11:44 PM
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Subject: RE: Razorxp Mentor group "sickies" CLOSED
cheekymonkeys1 - 2011-04-14 10:53 PM
gabrelsj - 2011-04-14 8:13 PM

cheekymonkeys1 - 2011-04-14 1:56 PM Ok, this is a 'WWGD' question......... I'm going to be in NY over Easter (lol anybody else feel a 'LP route' drive on my horizon?!) anyway, there just happens to be a HM at Lake George that weekend. I'm SO tempted to do it as a 'training run'. Its such a beautiful area. I did 10 miles last weekend and felt good. If I just went for fun? Good idea? Bad idea? What would group do?

 

when is your HIM?

June 18th - 9 weeks on Saturday. (64 days,8 hours and 23 minutes actually) Surprised

 

based on that, I say go for it.. the run will likely be beautiful (but hilly), and you'll have almost 2 months to recover from it.. Smile

2011-04-15 12:27 AM
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Subject: RE: Razorxp Mentor group "sickies" CLOSED
I would say for the average person an im starts to really get rough about 8 miles in. That's when you start playing head games with yourself........ on cellphone now so ill look over things tomorrow. But I like the idea of KC being a coach too. Your bad swim is much better than my no swim. Went to doc today and their advice was a week or more of rest then re-evaluate. This could be an interesting season considering I'm at about 20% of where I should be. I may race this weekend just to see how off I am, just promise to be nice about my times.


2011-04-15 12:35 AM
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Subject: RE: Razorxp Mentor group "sickies" CLOSED
cheekymonkeys1 - 2011-04-14 2:56 PMOk, this is a 'WWGD' question......... I'm going to be in NY over Easter (lol anybody else feel a 'LP route' drive on my horizon?!) anyway, there just happens to be a HM at Lake George that weekend. I'm SO tempted to do it as a 'training run'. Its such a beautiful area. I did 10 miles last weekend and felt good. If I just went for fun? Good idea? Bad idea? What would group do?
............I have the spacing issues on my phone too. For the half do it if it fits your training and if your supposed to go easy be sure to go super easy. They say for every mile you run hard it takes 1 day to fully recover so your looking at 2 weeks if you push it. Like running halfs for traing as it breaks up the boredom.
2011-04-15 1:13 AM
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Subject: RE: Razorxp Mentor group "sickies" CLOSED
chmoore2 - 2011-04-14 7:17 PM

cheekymonkeys1 - 2011-04-14 2:15 PM Am posting while at work (sshhhh) and my device won't allow for proper spacing, sorry.George - you want shoes, not sandals. They would probably be fine for, uhm well, I'm not sure. Just get shoes, you won't regret it. ( until you're clipped in and fall over a few times. lol). Dave - nutrition coach was a bust. She essentially follows Nancy Clark's reasoning and said 'more calories', and I gained even more weight. I have reduced down to 1,500 and I'm not refueling any workout that is under 1 - 1.5 hours now, in the hopes of stopping the damage.Keith, I am not 100% on cranberry. You might want to take a look at this race too. It's almost at the end of the season and VERY laid back, I.e I 'think' we got bib numbers, no USAT fees etc. It's in stiles pond and is just a really fun ( and cheap $40) one to do. www.calltohonortri.org in honor of a local officer killed on duty.

 

I agree you really want shoes. 

These are the shoes I have and I really like them.  I don't have anything to compare against though since this is the first bike I have had with clipless pedals.

http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_170216_-1_202642_10000_202362

The pedals are similar to these.

http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_175584_-1_201502_10000_202363

 

I really do like them though.

 

Thanks, Charlie and Deb.  I've changed my mind about the sandals, thanks to you guys.  I'm looking into shoes now.  Tried on one of these today: http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCEqProduct.jsp?spid=56687, but at $90, it's still on the high side for me.  I'm cautious about buying shoes over the web without having tried one on at a store.  For example, I wear 11 normally, but it turned out the 11 were too tight on me.  Who woulda thunk?

Training today, I swam 400 yrds, then biked 7 miles, then tried to run a mile.  But my calves started to cramp after running 0.25 miles.  Am I taking on too much too quickly?  Am I not drinking enough?  Am I not taking enough calories?  

 

 



Edited by gkao 2011-04-15 1:14 AM
2011-04-15 2:10 AM
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Subject: RE: Razorxp Mentor group "sickies" CLOSED

I like the TYR Catch Paddles - http://www.swimoutlet.com/product_p/8514.htm.

Last month I bought some bigger ones to get a harder workout and am wondering if that could be why my shoulder is starting to bother me a bit after KC's comment.  Plus this program I am doing LOVES the pull and I HATE it.  Maybe I need to cut it down a bit.

jend702 - 2011-04-14 4:16 PM Tim do you recommend a particular paddle. Ive been looking at few but cant decide.

2011-04-15 2:13 AM
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Subject: RE: Razorxp Mentor group "sickies" CLOSED

I know you have had a rough offseason with sickness and now this knee but with your experience I think you are underestimating yourself.

razorxp - 2011-04-15 12:27 AM This could be an interesting season considering I'm at about 20% of where I should be. I may race this weekend just to see how off I am, just promise to be nice about my times.

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