RE-OPENED Birkierunner's 2013 mentor group - RE-OPENED!!! (Page 7)

As Neil stated, the issue of weight training is a hot topic.  Is it absolutely "necessary"?....I would say no.  Can it be beneficial?....I would say perhaps and it probably won't hurt either.  If you have limited time I definitely would not spend any of that time doing anything but s/b/r.  There may be cases where you have an injury and muscle imbalance has resulted due to the injury so that is a case where weight training would be warranted to correct the imbalance and get you back to regular training.  If your run efficiency is affected by weakness somewhere perhaps your efficiency can be improved by specific weight training to address it.  If someone wants to simply attain greater core strength and has the time to do it I wouldn't discourage it...with the caveat that it doesn't take time away from s/b/r time and the workouts aren't so severe that they impact subsequent s/b/r workouts.  There are some that say plyometric/explosive type resistance training may produce neuromuscular adaptations that benefit performance. 

How does the above fit into the original question by Todd above of doing this on a "rest" day.  If an athlete told me he needs that "rest" day to actually REST the we would incorporate total rest days into his schedule.  If an athlete was handling his assigned training load easily and he simply wants to do some "active recovery"...and I would suggest non or low impact activity.....on the rest day maybe we would discuss stretching, yoga, or some of the resistance training discussed above.  Its going to vary widely among individuals.  

I've followed both a half marathon training program, and Jorge's winter program at the same time, and had good results with both.  The key was to vary the days with higher intensity - I didn't worry about the weeks so much.  i.e. If Wednesday had a very intense bike session then I would expect my legs to suffer a bit, and would aim to choose a run workout that was easier the next day - I wasn't too concerned with dropping the volume, just making sure the intensity was lower.  Another good option, is mixing around the run/bike days, so that you swim following a couple of tough or high volume run/bike days.

At the same time, if I had a big weekend of training, with a long ride and run, then come Monday, I would aim for a less intense bike session.  Personally, I never aimed to lower the volume of my long runs on the weekend, even if they followed a ride the day before, simply because I liked the idea of training on legs that were a little tierd.  Come race day for the HM, I found that having fresh legs following the taper was really to my benefit.  If I had always trained on fresh legs I don't know that I would have run as well in the latter portion of the race.

Todd, see my comments on the weight training post above...

A agree with most of Neils first paragraph.  With regards to the second paragraph and long runs on weekends following a long bike...you will see 2 schools of thought on that in the tri sites and blogs.  One school is that you should separate your long run from your long bike by a couple or even a few days.  The thought is that you should do your long run on fresh legs and that you can never duplicate the run of an ironman or half ironman during training so why bother trying to do it....its just another day of running on tired legs according to that camp.  I guess I can see how some/many athletes would benefit from that approach is they are relatively new to training...heck, even more experienced triathletes may benefit from it once in a while.  I tend to lean towards the second school and part of that is related to my beliefs in the value of brick runs and epic training weekends as well.  As I mentioned a few pages back we are training to be triathletes...not someone that trains to swim fast, bike fast, run fast and occasionally will enter an event where they happen to do all 3 back to back on a given day.  Yes, your quality/higher intensity sessions for running should be done on fresh legs.  But if you are going to be required to do a long run after a long bike in a race I certainly would want to do that in training at least a few times before the race.  Doing a long run on Sunday after a long ride on Saturday can't mimic a long distance tri exactly but it sure as heck is going to give you better feedback than a standalone long run in the middle of the week.  Will you be able to run that Sunday session faster than the mid-week run???...probably not depending on the bike session on Saturday...but we aren't training to do a standalone run.   So I can make an argument for mixing up both approaches.  It still all boils down to what works for the individual and not everyone will respond the same.

Well, in a nutshell, that is why I am here.  I may have been an elite swimmer back in the day, I may have ridden my bike a couple hundred miles a week 30 years ago, but when it comes to triathlon, I am a babe in the woods.  I know that my swimming career and experience, while invaluable in many respects, is not going to directly translate or correlate to triathlon training and/or competition.  I am planning on leaning on those of you with more experience to learn the things I don't know.

Call out to the 'chicks'.  Being a woman, I've got these damn hips to contend with.  And they are always throwing my lower back out.  Anyone else experience hip/lower back issues?  What kind of strengthening excercises do you do for this?

Joanne

During Jan-Mar I try to get in a 3.5 mile run in on the treadmills at work simply to get in run miles in addition to my main workout later in the afternoon.  This serves 2 purposes...1) its an easy way to get in run frequency and build "durability" in legs, and 2) it serves as a way to ensure getting in some type of workout for the day in the event that something comes up to prevent getting in a main workout in the late afternoon. 

I need to start using my office gym for lunch runs again.  This would free up my mornings and/or evenings to actually get on my bike, which I've yet to do.  It's all set up on the trainer waiting to go... getting dusty.  

Today is Wednesday, I'll officially commit to 3 rides this week of at least 30 minutes.

Started this week with bike 1hr on Tuesday and swim 45 min on Wednesday (Monday is my off day).  I do these first thing in the morning, but have blocked off some time for lunch time training as well starting Mid February. 

Thanks for the input on the weight training.  I think I will keep it as an "only if I have time thing".  I think my core could use some help though.  I  have been doing yoga, but its mostly a yoga for runners, so isn't really optimal for core.  I'll  have to throw in some planks every now and then.

Do you have a plan for what these will look like?

I was going to suggest Jorge's plan - nothing maintenance about it though, it pushes you.  If you start asap then then first couple of weeks are geared to getting you back in the swing of things.  I'm not a big fan of HR for this program because HR lags too much for most of the interval work.  If you don't have power, then it's better to go by RPE.

Agree about Rainmaker - fast dood, great blog.

I know he took a shot at Kona through IMC a couple of years ago and fell short, just wasn't his day.

Scott - have you taken a look at what types of times you'll need to have a chance at Kona?

Yes I have.  Louisville last year in the 55-59 AG was 10:52.

I did a swim TT a couple weeks ago - 500 Yards in 5:53.  I was pretty happy cause I was able to negative split it so my swim fitness is pretty much where it needs to be.  The average works out to around 1:10.5/100.  Assuming I can hold near that pace for the full IM distance that would work out to a sub one hour swim for an IM distance.  I looked at splits for Louisville 2011 and the best I can find is an average - it was 1:19:00 for the swim so I might be able to come out of the water with a bit of a cushion.

I need to do some TT stuff to see where I am with the bike.  I am looking forward to a real bike on a real road for some real miles.  Come mid April I am thinking maybe a 50 mile TT to see where I am at?  Thoughts? 

And then the run - yeah that is still a problem.  That is "my Achilles heel" so to speak; and that is why I continue to be somewhat run focused.

JIM - I turn 55 in June so any competition this year is going to be in the 55-59 AG.

For fun I had looked up some of the times posted on this website.

http://www.runtri.com/2010/07/ironman-kona-qualifying-times-comparing.html

Agree, that the speeds you need to hit really are intense.  Looking at the old guys category , you need to be able to put together somewhere around a 10hr race at most of these venues just to have a shot.

 ETA - looked at 50-54AG when I posted this.

I think the key is that most fo the fast guys are going to be in hour to hour ten range for the swim - and really, 10min out of the water at this distance is not much of a cushion.  A really good swimmer on this site, who is also an overall decent triathlete, came out of the water 14th overall at IM Tremblant.  He was mentally prepared to then be passed a lot on the bike - and it's not cause he's slow, just that others are reaaaaallly fast.

As for the 50mile TT, I think that is overkill.  If you want to put down a solid TT, 40km is the distance to give it a shot at.  Anywhere close to 1 hour on a basically flat course is a solid time.

Why is the run a problem?  I took at look at your logs, and you're being consistent, but with very short runs, at a slow pace (not being snarky with that comment).  Is it a case of building mileage/consistency at the moment, or do you have an injury? 

HEY!  Show some respect!  LOL

I have never run.  I am in the last week of a Couch-to-5K program.  On Monday I start working specifically for the Mini-Marathon on May 4th (13.1 miles).  The log run times and distance include WU and CD so the pace is a bit lower than actual.  Normally I am around 14:30/mile give or take (and yeah, I know I need to get down to less than half that).  I have not been overly concerned with run pace, focusing instead on getting to where I can actually run.  I figure as I increase the mileage the pace will take care of itself to a point.  I know at some point I am going to need to do some work to increase run speed but right now I am just happy to be able to increase distance.

Thank you.  I have a lot of bike miles, but have never done anything "formal" (racing, training, etc.).  Thinking I can average X mph and having the clock say I can average X mph are two different things so looking forward to actually seeing what the clock says.

I think that increasing volume conservatively is certainly a smart strategy - and likely the safest one.  As a new runner, spending most of your time in zone 1/2 is also a good idea, as long as your zones are correct.  If you have any doubt then an RPE of "I can do this for a long time" is a decent benchmark.

Pace will improve over time, but you also need to push yourself on occasion so the body knows what it feels like to run faster.  I'm not saying to do that at the moment, but in time, you'll need to.  Do you already have a specific plan for the mini-marathon?

Oh, and since I didn't mention it before - I wish I had some your swim speed!