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2011-05-08 12:51 PM
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Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman Plan Group
DV 1 - 2011-05-06 7:40 AM

Joe,

When you add time in the saddle and reduce intensity, how much and when do you reduce the intensity? My long ride yesteday was 2 hours and I averaged 19.5 mph. When you add time, do you dial back the whole ride, or just the added time?

Thanks,

I would suggest you dial back on the whole ride. If it's a long ride, the focus should be on endurance anyway, so save your mid-week rides for more dedicated tempo and speed work.



2011-05-08 12:53 PM
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Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman Plan Group
ingleshteechur - 2011-05-06 12:02 PM

Anybody else get the crabbies on a high volume week?  I am five weeks out from my first HIM and this week has been pretty tough.  I'm finding I'm a little crabby last night and today.  I know that's a sign of over-training, but I don't feel like that's it, I just feel a little irritable.  Heading into a recovery week after the weekend...I'll see if my mood improves!

Oh, is it normal to start feeling nervous already?!

My partner just finished a 15 hour training week and I can tell you that he was crabby. It's normal.

2011-05-08 12:54 PM
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Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman Plan Group
Bmorunning - 2011-05-08 8:38 AM

Hi everyone! My name is Brian and my first HIM will be on sept 11 at the REV3 cedar point! Right now I am in taper for the Cleveland Marathon that I am running on May 15th. I have started the bike/swimming training portion of the program,but kept my running towards my marathon plan. After my recovery from the marathon I plan on using the run portion of the plan.

Welcome, and best of luck next weekend!

2011-05-08 12:59 PM
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Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman Plan Group
DV 1 - 2011-05-04 6:47 PM

Jessica,

Thanks so much for the advice.....it sounds like really good advice.

On the other hand....lately (pretty much every workout), I've felt really great....currently on week 14 (meaning 14 more weeks to the race). I don't push myself to pain, but my workouts also aren't anywhere near zone 1 or 2.....I'd be basically speed walking on the runs and going like 15 mph on the bike. I try to push myself a bit on each workout depending on how I feel. Today's tempo run called for 7x 3t, 2r. I planed the 3t under 8:00 mile and the 2r under 9:00. When I got out there, I felt great and ran more like 7:30 tempo and 8:30 recovery. Should I not have? My RPE was fine, and I finished the 20 minute cool down around 8:30's.

Was it tough....sure. Did I enjoy it....absolutely. Are my legs tired....you betcha. But I don't think I'd change a thing.

So how do I, or any of us newbies, decide how hard is too hard. Would I gain as much running an hour and a half at 9:30 minute miles as I would at 8:30's. The answer seems like an obvious no, but I honestly don't know. It's not speed work by any means, but it would seem like the higher cadence and longer strides of an 8:30 mile would begin to train the nerves, muscles, etc... to run faster.

I'm rambling....sorry. Any additional info you give would be appreciated. Thanks again for all the help!

My partner just wrote two blogs about this topic that I can share. The overall point is that you may be selling yourself short by doing all of your workouts at a moderate pace. Your fast days might be much faster if you had easy days leading up to it, but if all of your days are an attempt to go fast, you will never have that peak and rest cycle that gives you real fitness gains.

Part One.

Part Two.

2011-05-08 2:43 PM
in reply to: #3487813

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Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman Plan Group
Tri Take Me Away - 2011-05-08 10:45 AM
lalexander - 2011-05-04 3:43 PM

Wildflower is in the books!!  I’m still on a post-race high!  The course was incredibly challenging, with abnormal wind conditions on the bike and long, steep hills on the run (Wildflower Course Description).  The saving grace was a kind woman yelling “This is your last hill!!” through a megaphone somewhere near the mile 12 marker on the run.  Adrenaline took over and I broke into a full-tilt sprint down Lynch Hill, through the final chute to the finish line.  Never has an iced soaked towel felt so good. 

 

I learned so much from this event (my first HIM).  This training plan worked like a charm (except I would add a few more long rides next time).  My nutrition also worked out very well (Pre-Swim:  Granola with Greek yogurt.  Bike:  2 24 oz. bottles on the bike (Cytomax in one, Nuun in the other), 1 Cliff bar spread out across the ride, 4 Hammer Endurolytes and 2 Hammer Gels.  Run:  One more Hammer Gel on the run and sips of Gatorade along the way).

 

I’m looking for advice on a transition/continuing plan for my next HIM July 17 (Vineman).  Do I pick up mid-way through this plan to have it end on race day again?  Is there a BT plan designed for this?  Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Congrats on a successful first HIM! Please take at least 5 days off with little to no training, then start building up again. It's totally fine to use this plan again and just start from the proper point in the plan. Most people have more than 2 months between races of this distance because it's extremely challenging to recover and get through another round of intense trianing without injury, illness, or burnout. Be careful, err on the side of caution, and listen closely to your body.

Thanks Jessica.  I definitely took it easy this past week - only two light runs to loosen up.  One more quick question.  Is there a way to download/save my old plan before importing a new plan (to use for comparative purposes later)?  Thanks again!

 

2011-05-08 5:16 PM
in reply to: #3052895

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Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman Plan Group

Hey all,

6 days to race! I am in full taper but have a question about the workouts this week. Many of them say some thing like this:

A quick run through of all 3 sports today.  

S: 4 x 5 minutes, start each fast, level out pace on each

B: 3 x 10 minutes, start each slow, build up to race pace on each.

R: 3 x 10 minutes, start each slow, build up to race pace on each.

Question.... Are these all together, transition practice and all?  How did those who have gone through this handle these. Did I mention 6 days to race day? Starting to get excited!

 



2011-05-08 5:25 PM
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Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman Plan Group
Tri Take Me Away - 2011-05-08 1:59 PM
DV 1 - 2011-05-04 6:47 PM

Jessica,

Thanks so much for the advice.....it sounds like really good advice.

On the other hand....lately (pretty much every workout), I've felt really great....currently on week 14 (meaning 14 more weeks to the race). I don't push myself to pain, but my workouts also aren't anywhere near zone 1 or 2.....I'd be basically speed walking on the runs and going like 15 mph on the bike. I try to push myself a bit on each workout depending on how I feel. Today's tempo run called for 7x 3t, 2r. I planed the 3t under 8:00 mile and the 2r under 9:00. When I got out there, I felt great and ran more like 7:30 tempo and 8:30 recovery. Should I not have? My RPE was fine, and I finished the 20 minute cool down around 8:30's.

Was it tough....sure. Did I enjoy it....absolutely. Are my legs tired....you betcha. But I don't think I'd change a thing.

So how do I, or any of us newbies, decide how hard is too hard. Would I gain as much running an hour and a half at 9:30 minute miles as I would at 8:30's. The answer seems like an obvious no, but I honestly don't know. It's not speed work by any means, but it would seem like the higher cadence and longer strides of an 8:30 mile would begin to train the nerves, muscles, etc... to run faster.

I'm rambling....sorry. Any additional info you give would be appreciated. Thanks again for all the help!

My partner just wrote two blogs about this topic that I can share. The overall point is that you may be selling yourself short by doing all of your workouts at a moderate pace. Your fast days might be much faster if you had easy days leading up to it, but if all of your days are an attempt to go fast, you will never have that peak and rest cycle that gives you real fitness gains.

Part One.

Part Two.

Thanks Jessica. It's en easy concept to understand but understandably a more difficult one to practice. I need to adapt to this kind of training! I had the easiest 30 minute 3.8 mile run of my life last week and for the first time ever thought to myself, "Now that's a recovery run."

2011-05-08 10:25 PM
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Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman Plan Group
wozin8or - 2011-05-08 3:16 PM

Hey all,

6 days to race! I am in full taper but have a question about the workouts this week. Many of them say some thing like this:

A quick run through of all 3 sports today.  

S: 4 x 5 minutes, start each fast, level out pace on each

B: 3 x 10 minutes, start each slow, build up to race pace on each.

R: 3 x 10 minutes, start each slow, build up to race pace on each.

Question.... Are these all together, transition practice and all?  How did those who have gone through this handle these. Did I mention 6 days to race day? Starting to get excited!

 

Right or wrong, I didn't do these back-to-back.  I did them when I could, including the last day's workouts at the event site itself.  I tried to use these last week workouts a way to satisfy the workout cravings and get some last-minute wetsuit practice in.  Best of luck!!

 

2011-05-08 10:55 PM
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Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman Plan Group

I'm so stoked! Just looked ahead. Looking forward to June. I have a metric century ride June 5th, a 10 mile run all hills next weekend, and my first Tri of the series a sprint on the 18th. (Week 10, 9, 8)

With this plan it is bike week on the 5th... 10K race week next and a sprint tri on the 18th. How cool is that! The 10 mile run will be tough...  I hear it is... but my legs get a rest the next week.

Not really looking forward to this recovery week. I got a bit busy this week at work and did not put in the miles I wanted. I just synced with this plan recently and had a rest week two weeks ago.... but now I'm excited with how this will work out for me. Time for rest. June will be busy for me. I'm really starting to feel my training and it is feeling good!!!

2011-05-09 1:17 PM
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Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman Plan Group
lalexander - 2011-05-08 10:25 PM

wozin8or - 2011-05-08 3:16 PM

Hey all,

6 days to race! I am in full taper but have a question about the workouts this week. Many of them say some thing like this:

A quick run through of all 3 sports today.  

S: 4 x 5 minutes, start each fast, level out pace on each

B: 3 x 10 minutes, start each slow, build up to race pace on each.

R: 3 x 10 minutes, start each slow, build up to race pace on each.

Question.... Are these all together, transition practice and all?  How did those who have gone through this handle these. Did I mention 6 days to race day? Starting to get excited!

 

Right or wrong, I didn't do these back-to-back.  I did them when I could, including the last day's workouts at the event site itself.  I tried to use these last week workouts a way to satisfy the workout cravings and get some last-minute wetsuit practice in.  Best of luck!!

 



That's how I've handled them too. They should not be a great effort so I prefer not to do them together. This time around I'll be at the race site on Monday with the race being on Saturday so I have a lot of time to get these in. Since I'm coming from the rainy, cold Northwest to hot, humid Hawaii it'll be more about getting acclimated to the weather and keeping from doing to much.

Good luck with your race. Be sure to tell us all about it afterwards.
2011-05-09 6:15 PM
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Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman Plan Group
Gulf Coast Triathlon HIM was great! When I first arrived at PCB the waves were pretty intense! I got out in it just to see how it was and I decided I would swim however the ocean let me and not worry about what I wanted to do.
Race morning the surf had setteled down and I had a great swim 34:19 for the 1.2. Saw little fishes in the water at one point and thought, if they scatter I should worry - they didn't so I didn't!
Bike was strong for the frst half, watched that I didn't blow it up, and I didn't. Thought I was doing great through about mile 35 and then the head wind hit us. Went from averaging around 21 to averaging around 17. Finished as expected overall at 2:57 with a 19mph avg.
Run was not as brutally hot as I had been expecting, which was a relief. Felt good through the first half and then the hips started hurting (ice in the racesuit!). By the last three miles I felt like I was on the edge of it, running on fumes, and I just kept taking what fuel I could to keep going. Not sure if it helped, but the last mile I was walking with someone in my age group and we both just started jogging the last mile. Stayed together (I was't willing to concede that spot!) to the end and I finished 2 secs ahead of him in the final dash. Overall 6:23:36 which was better than the 6:30 I had set m goal at, and I was able to walk the next day!
Did someone say Ironman?

Edited by bill2059 2011-05-09 6:20 PM


2011-05-09 6:53 PM
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Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman Plan Group

Awesome Job - Way to go Bill !!!

Ironman for sure :-)

YOU DID IT !!!!!!!!!!

Enjoy recovery :-)

p.s. Any lessons learned or advice to pass along to the rest of us newbies?

2011-05-09 9:25 PM
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Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman Plan Group
Thats really awesome. Great job on your race. I set a goal of 6 hours.... but maybe 6:20 is more realistic. We'll see. At least you could walk the next day. Don't know what I will be doing the next day. Congrats!
2011-05-10 8:02 AM
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Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman Plan Group

Just starting Week 12 (Swim Focus ) and noticed that there is a reverse order tri workout planned at the end of the week. My question is - what is the benefit of doing it in reverse order? Would it be better to do it in normal order to practice transitions and give the body the opportunity to get used to the different demands that will be required of it on race day????  Just a thought

Steve

2011-05-10 1:02 PM
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Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman Plan Group
h9lfc - 2011-05-10 8:02 AM

Just starting Week 12 (Swim Focus ) and noticed that there is a reverse order tri workout planned at the end of the week. My question is - what is the benefit of doing it in reverse order? Would it be better to do it in normal order to practice transitions and give the body the opportunity to get used to the different demands that will be required of it on race day????  Just a thought

Steve

I did this workout in the prescribed order back in March, which means it was done all indoors.  I did the treadmill run and trainer ride at home and then drove 10 minutes to the pool.  The workout is just weird - plain and simple - but don't dismiss it entirely.  In week 12 you hit the pool pretty hard so think of this last workout as the final part of that effort.  I found that swimming with 90 minutes of solid effort already under my belt was both a mentally and physically challenging workout. 

There's plenty of transition practice workouts in the later weeks. 

2011-05-10 2:18 PM
in reply to: #3490269

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Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman Plan Group

bill2059 - 2011-05-09 6:15 PM Gulf Coast Triathlon HIM was great! When I first arrived at PCB the waves were pretty intense! I got out in it just to see how it was and I decided I would swim however the ocean let me and not worry about what I wanted to do. Race morning the surf had setteled down and I had a great swim 34:19 for the 1.2. Saw little fishes in the water at one point and thought, if they scatter I should worry - they didn't so I didn't! Bike was strong for the frst half, watched that I didn't blow it up, and I didn't. Thought I was doing great through about mile 35 and then the head wind hit us. Went from averaging around 21 to averaging around 17. Finished as expected overall at 2:57 with a 19mph avg. Run was not as brutally hot as I had been expecting, which was a relief. Felt good through the first half and then the hips started hurting (ice in the racesuit!). By the last three miles I felt like I was on the edge of it, running on fumes, and I just kept taking what fuel I could to keep going. Not sure if it helped, but the last mile I was walking with someone in my age group and we both just started jogging the last mile. Stayed together (I was't willing to concede that spot!) to the end and I finished 2 secs ahead of him in the final dash. Overall 6:23:36 which was better than the 6:30 I had set m goal at, and I was able to walk the next day! Did someone say Ironman?

Happy to hear you had a great race! Congratulations!



2011-05-11 6:50 AM
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Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman Plan Group

OK - I have a dilemma. I am in my peak week. I have my long run scheduled for Wednesday but am switching days so I can run with my friend who is training for IM Louisville. So my long run will be Thursday night. I have a long ride/run brick on the schedule for Saturday (2.5 hour/20 min). Saturday we are traveling to visit my family and celebrate Mother's Day. This will be a 2.5 hour drive one way. Doing that long ride/run brick then immediately sitting in the van for 2.5 hours does not sound like the best idea. Can I just move the long/ride and run to Sunday? That means I'm taking 8 days to get in all of the training for my peak week but the next week is recovery so it does not seem like an issue to me.

Sunday there is a sprint race that is on the same course as the HIM course. I could volunteer for the sprint then ride the HIM race course. This seems like a perfect plan except for me messing with the schedule so much. What do you all think?

2011-05-11 8:39 AM
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Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman Plan Group
For me, this is a "beginner" plan. I don't think any of us are even close to the caliber athlete where rearranging a day here and there is going to throw us off our long-term goal. Perhaps if we were pros and had teams of dieticians, nutritionists, massagists, exercise physiologists, etc... caring for our every movement, it would make a difference. But for the sake of a beginner, I'm willing to take the chance that it won't hurt. I've been switching days around as needed mostly to accomodate for rain on bike days. As long as you're not doing two or more hard workouts back to back to back, I think you're fine.
2011-05-11 8:41 AM
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Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman Plan Group
Question: Today's workout is a 45 minute swim and a 1:30 run (Brick). The swim is only 1550 yards though. That will take me about 35 minutes with recovery time built in. Should I make the MS longer to be sure I get in the 45 minutes before the run, or just follow the distances prescribed?
2011-05-11 8:43 AM
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Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman Plan Group
DV 1 - 2011-05-09 6:53 PM

Awesome Job - Way to go Bill !!!

Ironman for sure :-)

YOU DID IT !!!!!!!!!!

Enjoy recovery :-)

p.s. Any lessons learned or advice to pass along to the rest of us newbies?



Practice getting out of your wetsuit (if using one), I definitely could have been quicker with that. A support team is great (if not, check your gear) - forgot my sunglasses(!) wife brought them to me before we started, phew!
Smoothie in the morning was a great pre race meal.
I stayed to the outside during the swim, cutting in towards the turn so I was able to swim without a lot of interference.
Ice on my hips (fuel belt held it there) helped during the run. I definitely needed more carbs earlier in the run or late on the bike, I think that is why my legs were so sore at the end.
Take the extra few moments in transition to be sure you have everything, it doesn't make a huge difference in time and it is worth the peace of mind. Hope this helps.
2011-05-11 8:47 AM
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Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman Plan Group
I am comfortable with swimming so I just did the distances and did not worry about the time. If you need more practice with the swim, you could just add some distance on.


2011-05-11 8:49 AM
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Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman Plan Group
trigal38 - 2011-05-11 6:50 AM

OK - I have a dilemma. I am in my peak week. I have my long run scheduled for Wednesday but am switching days so I can run with my friend who is training for IM Louisville. So my long run will be Thursday night. I have a long ride/run brick on the schedule for Saturday (2.5 hour/20 min). Saturday we are traveling to visit my family and celebrate Mother's Day. This will be a 2.5 hour drive one way. Doing that long ride/run brick then immediately sitting in the van for 2.5 hours does not sound like the best idea. Can I just move the long/ride and run to Sunday? That means I'm taking 8 days to get in all of the training for my peak week but the next week is recovery so it does not seem like an issue to me.

Sunday there is a sprint race that is on the same course as the HIM course. I could volunteer for the sprint then ride the HIM race course. This seems like a perfect plan except for me messing with the schedule so much. What do you all think?



It sounds all good. Some moving around of the workouts is just part of having a life. I moved stuff around as necessary, and it sounds like most of have to make it work. You have some great support in your training and it is a good idea to use it.
2011-05-11 12:14 PM
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Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman Plan Group

Trigal, could you move the brick to today?  Ha, possibly a bit late for that response but you never know.  I was debating between my tri club's plan and the BT plan and one of the things on my club plan was that every week they do a long brick one day and the long run the next day.  It's referred to as "key workouts" and recommended to do it in that order every week so your long run is always on tired legs.  Sounds painful but good race specific training.  If you did the brick tonight and then the long run tomorrow night, you'd have the full 24 hours to recover.  Just an idea.

I'm on week 18 and missed a run yesterday and I feel so guilty.  I did my ride, which felt awesome but was left with only 34 minutes to do a 30 minute run and was still in my bike gear on my front porch.  So I opted to shower instead and then picked up my son from school.  I'm sure the other parents appreciated my shower but I felt grumpy about putting a red X through that workout instead of a bright yellow checkmark.

2011-05-11 12:53 PM
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Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman Plan Group
bill2059 - 2011-05-11 8:49 AM
trigal38 - 2011-05-11 6:50 AM

OK - I have a dilemma. I am in my peak week. I have my long run scheduled for Wednesday but am switching days so I can run with my friend who is training for IM Louisville. So my long run will be Thursday night. I have a long ride/run brick on the schedule for Saturday (2.5 hour/20 min). Saturday we are traveling to visit my family and celebrate Mother's Day. This will be a 2.5 hour drive one way. Doing that long ride/run brick then immediately sitting in the van for 2.5 hours does not sound like the best idea. Can I just move the long/ride and run to Sunday? That means I'm taking 8 days to get in all of the training for my peak week but the next week is recovery so it does not seem like an issue to me.

Sunday there is a sprint race that is on the same course as the HIM course. I could volunteer for the sprint then ride the HIM race course. This seems like a perfect plan except for me messing with the schedule so much. What do you all think?

It sounds all good. Some moving around of the workouts is just part of having a life. I moved stuff around as necessary, and it sounds like most of have to make it work. You have some great support in your training and it is a good idea to use it.

That is what I was thinking. For some reason this one just bothered me since it will be in a different week on the training log/graph. 

2011-05-11 1:10 PM
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Subject: RE: Beginner 1/2 Ironman Plan Group
lamb_y2003 - 2011-05-11 12:14 PM

Trigal, could you move the brick to today?  Ha, possibly a bit late for that response but you never know.  I was debating between my tri club's plan and the BT plan and one of the things on my club plan was that every week they do a long brick one day and the long run the next day.  It's referred to as "key workouts" and recommended to do it in that order every week so your long run is always on tired legs.  Sounds painful but good race specific training.  If you did the brick tonight and then the long run tomorrow night, you'd have the full 24 hours to recover.  Just an idea.

I'm on week 18 and missed a run yesterday and I feel so guilty.  I did my ride, which felt awesome but was left with only 34 minutes to do a 30 minute run and was still in my bike gear on my front porch.  So I opted to shower instead and then picked up my son from school.  I'm sure the other parents appreciated my shower but I felt grumpy about putting a red X through that workout instead of a bright yellow checkmark.

This is exactly the opposite of what I thought was recommended. Interesting. I thought you were supposed to space those workouts apart to give yourself time to recover, decrease risk of injury and set yourself up for the best quality workout. Won't running on tired legs just teach your body to lock in the same tired run pace? I don't mean to pick on your recommendation. I'm just trying to understand different points of view and I'm asking anyone reading the thread. Regardless, the weekend just works better for me with a long ride but thanks for the idea. I really want to try to ride further than the 2.5 hours in the plan and I can't get that done during the week.

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