kaburns1214 Mentor Group 2012 Part 2 - CLOSED (Page 75)

Swimming is interesting.  The ROI is so very low, that for lots of people it isn't worth the time or investment.  An extra 4 or 5 hours a week on the bike can result in 30 minutes in an IM.  An extra 4 or 5 hours in the pool can reuslt in 3 minutes. 

Speaking of race names.  I picked up a new race to RD -- the Hogsback Half Marathon.  This fall its going to be fun with pigs, I think I'm going to have the work "OINK" down the sleeve of the shirt.

Awesome.

Thanks for raining on my parade!

True what you say, not much return, but I was pretty pumped up!

I think 1:34 is AWESOME!!! Since I can't break through a 2:00 swim, I am impressed!!!

Not raining, just re-focusing. You know my opinion, if you have more time, get on the bike.

x2

So I am sooooooo exhausted today...I did 2300 in the pool today and then had a 40 min run with 8x1' sprints/hill repeats with 2' recovery. Wow did that kick my butt but it feels great! They became hill repeats because it seems everytime I was about to sprint I was at or on a hill.

There are some interesting names for races out there. They have a Lawyers Have Heart 10k here which I was like why would you name it that but they raise money for American Heart Association so makes since after you read up on why the races are named what they are.

Kelly, That is very interesting. When do you think ROI gets to that point that spending the extra time is not worth it.  I guess it would be different for everyone. I would say for me right now it would be better because my form starts to fade as I get tired and I am working harder to cover the same distance. (Coach pointed this out today ) So, I would say for beginners it is worth it but eventually it may not be?

The way I see it there are 2 phases to swimming.  When you're dealing with someone who is a beginner its important that they feel totally comfortable completing the distance.  In that phase you do proportionally more swimming so that the person feels that they can comfortabley complete the swim (and as a corollary they can come out of the swim feeling strong and fresh and able to bike and run to their ability).  Depending on the person's background, this phase can be non-existant or can possibly last for a a year or two.

Once you have a person comfortabley covering the distance, it becomes a time-reward balance.  For many people the ROI on getting faster is not worth the investment in time.  If you have unlimited time to train, train the swim.  If you only have X hours per week to train, you're likely going to get a bigger bang for your bike spending more time on the bike than spending it in the pool.   If (and when) you get to the point where your bike and run times are at the top of your AG in big races and the swim has become a limiter, its probably worth focusing on the swim again. 

As unsexy as it is, the biggest bang for your buck it time in the saddle.

That's interesting, Jeff.  After my race on Sunday, I started to have neck pain, usually the first sign that I'm coming down with an infection.  Now it's a head cold/sinus infection complete with fever and chills.  Back in college (and graduate school, for that matter), I would study so hard for finals, papers, exams, that I would get really, really ill after I'd wrap up a quarter or semester.  The same happened after my olympic race at the end of my season last year.  I think I put so much physical and emotional energy into things that I break down when they're over.  I assumed I got sick because I'd invested so much in this past weekend (not to mention it was hard to pack up 6 people and get a house ready for an open showing on top of training and preparing for a race).  How much you want to bet that I get extremely ill after my half in Sept.?    

This is how I feel about swimming, too.  I do not want to swim more than 2-3 times per week (I'd prefer only 2), because payoff is so slim in comparison to time on the bike and the run, for me.  I would have to swim 5-6 times a week to see a massive improvement (and yes, we're talking 3 minutes or something like that).  For us time crunched triathletes, those extra hours are better spent elsewhere.    

Karen - I think you're solid doing masters swim 2 x a week.  1:34 is fantastic!!!!!!  

Is Culpepper generally wetsuit legal (I'd have to imagine the water is pretty warm in Virginia in August)?

kidtri33 - 2012-06-13 6:44 AM

kaburns1214 - 2012-06-13 6:01 AM

kidtri33 - 2012-06-12 6:25 PM Thanks Kelly for the explanation. I wish I could get one more day in the pool a week but my schedule doesn't allow it. Now that Soccer is done for a little while I may have Saturdays open. We shall see. Like you said I am just trying to get comfortable enough to finish te 1500 in August.

Is Culpepper generally wetsuit legal (I'd have to imagine the water is pretty warm in Virginia in August)?

No it is a very warm lake. One race report actually called it a sauna last year. Most lakes around here are not wetsuit legal from what I have read so far. A wetsuit would be nice though. I heard there is a bunch of critters in there so that should be motivation to keep going haha

They took a pic of an 8 foot gator a couple months ago in a place I raced last year.

Could we talk about form and hill running?  

I think I have a problem overstriding, particularly on hills.  I am working on increasing my run cadence and keeping my feet under my body.  It seems to be helping, and I am not in as much pain.  I know this is a long, painful process (changing my form, that is).  I guess I'm just looking for a better way to conquer these hills, as I seem to feel pretty beaten up after tackling them (borderline injury type stuff).  I am a heel striker, but that's not what concerns me.....it's the overstriding.  

Thanks! 

uhcoog - 2012-06-13 9:12 AM

kidtri33 - 2012-06-13 6:44 AM

kaburns1214 - 2012-06-13 6:01 AM

kidtri33 - 2012-06-12 6:25 PM Thanks Kelly for the explanation. I wish I could get one more day in the pool a week but my schedule doesn't allow it. Now that Soccer is done for a little while I may have Saturdays open. We shall see. Like you said I am just trying to get comfortable enough to finish te 1500 in August.

Is Culpepper generally wetsuit legal (I'd have to imagine the water is pretty warm in Virginia in August)?

No it is a very warm lake. One race report actually called it a sauna last year. Most lakes around here are not wetsuit legal from what I have read so far. A wetsuit would be nice though. I heard there is a bunch of critters in there so that should be motivation to keep going haha

They took a pic of an 8 foot gator a couple months ago in a place I raced last year.

Holy Cow! That is one reason they opened up hunting them back where I grew up in MS. They were popping up everywhere. Makes you take second thoughts of racing there again. Would you race there again knowing that?

uhcoog - 2012-06-13 9:12 AM

kidtri33 - 2012-06-13 6:44 AM

kaburns1214 - 2012-06-13 6:01 AM

kidtri33 - 2012-06-12 6:25 PM Thanks Kelly for the explanation. I wish I could get one more day in the pool a week but my schedule doesn't allow it. Now that Soccer is done for a little while I may have Saturdays open. We shall see. Like you said I am just trying to get comfortable enough to finish te 1500 in August.

Is Culpepper generally wetsuit legal (I'd have to imagine the water is pretty warm in Virginia in August)?

No it is a very warm lake. One race report actually called it a sauna last year. Most lakes around here are not wetsuit legal from what I have read so far. A wetsuit would be nice though. I heard there is a bunch of critters in there so that should be motivation to keep going haha

They took a pic of an 8 foot gator a couple months ago in a place I raced last year.

No!!!!  The girly girl will come out of me when I hear of creatures in the water.  I'm already pretty turned off reading all these reports of jellyfish stings during the Eagleman swim.  I do not like creepy crawlers!!!!!

jarvy01 - 2012-06-13 8:43 AM

uhcoog - 2012-06-13 9:12 AM

kidtri33 - 2012-06-13 6:44 AM

kaburns1214 - 2012-06-13 6:01 AM

kidtri33 - 2012-06-12 6:25 PM Thanks Kelly for the explanation. I wish I could get one more day in the pool a week but my schedule doesn't allow it. Now that Soccer is done for a little while I may have Saturdays open. We shall see. Like you said I am just trying to get comfortable enough to finish te 1500 in August.

Is Culpepper generally wetsuit legal (I'd have to imagine the water is pretty warm in Virginia in August)?

No it is a very warm lake. One race report actually called it a sauna last year. Most lakes around here are not wetsuit legal from what I have read so far. A wetsuit would be nice though. I heard there is a bunch of critters in there so that should be motivation to keep going haha

They took a pic of an 8 foot gator a couple months ago in a place I raced last year.

No!!!!  The girly girl will come out of me when I hear of creatures in the water.  I'm already pretty turned off reading all these reports of jellyfish stings during the Eagleman swim.  I do not like creepy crawlers!!!!!

LOL.  I figure if I stay in the middle of a pack that the guys on the edges will get nailed first right???

As far as hill running..... in my limited experience I find that if I up my cadence and keep my stride shortened a bit it works out best for me.  I'd imagine overstriding on hills is a sure fire bet to go anaerobic. 

Healing up quickly,

Wounds are doing great hand feels alot better and hips is slowly coming along.

I was able to put in a 1 hr bike on the trainer last night.

Hopefully a run tonight not sure of time or distance at this point still feeling things out.

Jarvy,

Up hill running i shorten My stride and lean forward!! I do cap My HR on hills that helps me even effort better but not even pace. But I figure if i don't burn matches on the hills I will be able to hold a higher pace on the flats.

Exactly.  And think about driving your knees forward.  Its almost "bounding" up a hill rather than running. 

With regard to capping HR, it depends what the purpose of the run is.  If the purpose is to do hill repeats to build run stregnth, go all out.  If the hills are part of larger aerobic run or during a race, you probably want to take a more measured approach.

x2 on the knees and on the bounding feeling as well. I shorten my stride slightly too.