cayrip's and AbbieR's Mentor Group - Closed (Page 8)

Thanks for the info.  My wife has suggested that I go to her pilates and yoga classes with her at the gym.  Since I'm already a member there, the classes are free.  I think I'll start working some of them in.   Thanks again.

I'm in Las Vegas.  Unlike most places, for Vegas this is the best time of year for training.  Come June, July, Aug it's terribly hot.

In my limited research and questions to others, I've heard a few people say that nutrition, hydration, and caloric intake on race day constitute the "fourth discipline."  They also mention that everyone is different so it takes experimentation to see what works for you.  I need to start experimenting, but I don't even know where to start.

As far as hydration goes, I've learned that Gatorade suits me fine, which I think is good since a lot of races use that at the rest/check stations.  I prefer to cut it a bit with some water so it's not quite as strong.  I've also learned that the Hammer gels work well for me, whereas Gu (or Goo, I'm not sure on the spelling) is a bit thick and makes me feel a little sick to the stomach.  For a half marathon, the Gatorade/water mix and the Hammer Gels are probably enough, but when the swim and bike come into play too, I feel like I'm going to deplete other things that aren’t in the Gatorade or Hammer Gel.  What about proteins?  What other things should I be thinking of?

If those who have done long races could tell me what they do and why, it’ll give me something to start experimenting with.  Thanks in advance.

If you are planning longer races Oly and certainly 1/2 and full IM events you are right to be thinking about your nutrition plan.  I did my first 1/2 IM in 2000 and new ZERO about nutrition.  I consumed about 1/3 of the calories I needed and totally bonked on the run.  I finished, but felt horrible for the next 2 days.

The best thing to do is to start reading.  Check out the mags, triathlete, bicycling, runners world.  There are some great nutrition forums on this site and others.  There are some great books out there too, just search for Nutrtion Endurance Sports at Amazon.  In all of these sources you will find some guidelines for calorie, carb, protein, and electrolyte consumption based on your body weight.  You can then start experimenting with all of the different fuels and hydration products to find what you can tolerate that meets your needs.  If you use a heart rate monitor that tells you how many calories you burn/hr, you can also use that as another reference, but understand your body can only process about 250-350 calories per hour. 

As far as my personal experience I also like the Hammer Nutrition products.  I'm training for IM St. George and plan to use Perpetuem (which contains a little soy protien), Hammer Gel, and Cliff Bloks for fuel.  I'll stick with water for hydration unless it is pretty hot and then I'll add Gatorade.  I normally use HEED, but I'm training with Gatorade because that is what will be on the course.  I also use Hammer Nutrition's Endurolytes for electrolytes because I sweat a ton and I've had great success with those for the past 3 years.

I really can't eat solids when I'm working under race conditions.  I've also found that I can't tolerate anything too sweet, and Accelerade tears my stomach up.  I also find that after about 5-6 hours of racing or training I crave an ice cold Coke.  It is the only time I ever want to drink that stuff, but at that point sometimes it is the only thing I can think about.  I plan to have a flat ice-cold coke in my special needs bag for the marathon at IMSG.

Hope that helps.

Yes, that helps.  Thanks for the info.  I'll look into some of the things you mentioned you use.

There's a very good chance I'll be in St George for the IM.  I will not be racing it, but a friend of mine is, so I'll probably go check it out.  Plus, I want to see how everything works there because I'll probably do next year's St George IM as my first full IM (assuming they have it that year).  If I end up going, maybe I'll get to meet you in person.

What is better speed or distance? Is it better to focus on completing the distance as often as possible and get faster through fitness and weight loss? Or put your attention into sprints and gradually get longer?

Thanks for the advice.

Yes, thank you for sharing the pic of the great blue heron. They're one of my favorites!

IT band problems....

Here is something from the Runner's World website that has helped me with my IT band issues. It's called the "side lift". It's in the Video, injury prevention section (took me a while to find it again

http://www.runnersworld.com/video?moreUrl=http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid1430551071/bclid17971665001/bctid17725710001?src=rss

Happy Monday!

Many of us have races listed as our goals for 2010.  How about time/ speed goals?

I have been thinking I'd eventually like to do a HIM, but I'd like to improve my speed before committing to one.  I'm pretty slow in everything, which doesn't really bother me, but I know it's more stress on the body over a longer distance.  My time goals for 2010:

Running - Improve my 13.1 time to under 2 hours.  I finished the Indy Half last year in just under 2:09.  I'll attempt to break 2 hours in May at Indy.

Biking - Average 19-20 mph for a 25 mile ride (by mid-summer) and for a 50 mile ride (fall).  My sprint tri was done at 15.5 mph average.  It was extremely hilly, and I didn't make good use of the gears- hopefully next race I won't have to fix my chain! 

Swimming - My current half mile is about 17:00, and I'd like to do a full mile un under a half-hour. 

In order to meet these goals, I'm including one day of interval training per week in running and swimmiong, and doing intervals on the bike every other week.  I also know if I can drop 5-10 pounds, I'll be lighter, therefore faster! 

Anyone else have any specific time goals? 

I'm training for a HIM in March.  Since it's my first tri, my goals are to finish and enjoy it (in that order).  If I accomplish at least one of the two, I'll use what I learned to improve my times on the next one.

Even though at this point I don't have any specific goals for the race, I do have a goal to get my average bike speed up to 20 mph (for 30- to 40-mile rides).  My first rides were about 16 mph, and I've crept it up to 17 mph over the last four weeks.  If I could get strong enough to average 20 mph for the 56 miles of the HIM, I'd be ecstatic, but realistically I think it'll end up being more like 16 or 17 mph, maybe 18 mph.  We'll see.  Again, if I finish, I'll be pleased because that's my true goal.

I'm impressed with your swimming times.  They seem pretty strong to me.  Do you know what the average swim times are for a HIM?  I'm curious about that.

My training is usually based on time with some speed intervals thrown in.  For IM training last year my coach had included a few 6 hour rides, which is about 100 miles for me depending on the terrain.  This year's plan did not include any 6 hour rides for IM training.  I spoke to my coach about it and he told me for my first season, it was important for me to get 6 hours in the saddle so I would know how miserable it could be....really a mental game.  He said, once you are riding over 5 hours trainnig becomes deminishing returns....basically you are not gaining much from a fitness standpoint. 

Happy back to work day everyone:

Cozmo, again that photo is incredible.  That sort of wildlife would definitely inspire me to get out on the trails.  Not many animals to see around here - although my DH did see a wild turkey this fall!

Cayrip- thanks so much for the inspires, that was really terrific of you!  Most of my training is strictly between me and my log, so it was nice to have someone comment.

Way back, someone asked about losing weight and diets.   When I hit 40, it seemed like I gained 5 pounds overnight.  I don't really believe in "dieting" I find that at least for me it makes me crave things that are off limits.  I come from a family where eating = comfort, and I'm really the only person in my family who is not heavy.  I've been lucky that I've always been physically active and while I am not skinny (I have a stocky build - not huge boned, but def. not small), I've never been really overweight either.  However, when I decided to lose that 5 pounds I found the only way to do it was to track my food and exercise.  I used myfooddiary.com, even though it costs a fee per month, because I have found the free sites that are available take much longer for me to navigate and enter my food, and thus it is worth the $9.00 per month because it saves me a lot of time.  I have had very good success using this method, and it allows me to budget my calories so if I plan to have dessert or wine, it isn't an issue.  Quite frankly, as long as I am exercising an hour a day or so, I find I don't feel deprived and can pretty much eat what I want as long as I am moderate in portions and don't overdo the sugar or fat. 

The second thing I do re: diet is I try really hard to eat 5 servings of vegetables a day and 2-3 fruits.  I rarely have an issue with fruit, as I usually have a banana in the am before working out and fruit after dinner.  In order to hit the 5 vegetables, however, I have to eat veggies as one of my snacks, which means I don't eat something junky.  I typically eat 2-3 servings of veggies at dinner, and another at lunch (my all time favorite is a quesadilla made with low fat cheese and a big pile of spinach, plus fresh salsa), so if I focus on getting my fruits and veggies in, it keeps things healthy.  Then, if I really want a dish of ice cream or a margarita or whatever, it usually isn't a problem. 

I am back logging carefully now, because I am about 8 pounds over my ideal running weight right now, thanks to my stress fracture and a serious decrease in activity (and the holidays ). 

Got Torque asked about time goals.  As for my HIM, I really have no idea, and probably won't until I do an olympic distance in early summer.  In the pool, I am pretty comfortable and not breathing too hard when swimming just under 2:00 minutes/ hundred.  At this stage, once I get past about 1000 yards I'll slow down to just over 2:00 minutes/hundred, not because of cardio but because of limits in my muscular endurance - but I would hope that as I build more I'll improve some there.  I don't know how the pool times compare to open water - I guess I'll get some benefit from the wetsuit, but lose some from being mashed - so perhaps it is a wash.  For biking I have no idea.  My long rides this fall were for 2 hours and I went right around 15 mph, but I am in an urban area so there is lots of stopping and starting and waiting at lights.  Running is my strength, although I am by no means fast.  My half marathon PR is a 1:48, and before my stress fracture I was on target to run a 1:44.  But, those numbers are off a consistent 40-50 mile per week schedule with a speed session and a tempo session (and core and strength sessions), so I certainly will not be running even a stand alone half that fast right now.  I guess my goal would be to run sub 1:55, but I don't have any sense how beat up my legs will be by the bike and swim, so that may be a completely unrealistic goal. 

I am going to be very curious how the tri training effects things like my 5k pace, especially once I lose 5 pounds or so. 

My question for everyone is - who trains based on heartrate?   I have always done my run training using the principles of Jack Daniels - and his book is great in that you use a recent 5k time to calculate out what your tempo and interval and long run paces should be - he is a big proponent of slowing down substantially on long runs (the joke among runners is that in Jack Daniels's programs, the long run is considered an easy run).  You can also calculate a max. HR - usually from a kill yourself 5k or repetitive steep hill sprints and use that to make sure you go slow enough on long runs.   Does anyone have a method of figuring out HR zones for swimming or biking - or does it just not work as well (it seems to me hard to use HR on a bike, unless you are on a trainer, because you are stopping and starting so much).

Cheers, Cat 

The short answer to your question is that you really need both. 

I am a big proponent of specificity and periodization.  Many of the training plans you find will have several build weeks followed by a recovery week.  During the build weeks you will spend some time doing interval work to build speed and strength and you will have long workouts to build endurance and a strong aerobic base.  While weight loss and base fitness will help, if you want to dramatically improve your speed, you need to include sprint and interval work.

In my first year back to bike racing I had no real specificity and periodization in my training plan and I finished in the middle of the pack in nearly every race.  Last year I followed a training plan that included a fair amount of sprint and interval work and I finished in the top 10 the vast majority of the time in my Category.  I attribute the results directly to following a more structured training plan that focused on speed along with the base miles.

thanks for your help

Happy Tuesday everyone!!!!

Here is an article from Runner's World that I wanted to share. I think it goes well with Cayrip's challenge of setting daily goals.

http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-243-332--13377-0,00.html

Training Schedule Questions:

I am planning on training for several sprint, olympic and possibly HIM this spring and summer and then transitioning late summer to building miles for the NYC marathon.  The weather has been bitter but I try to do something almost every day (at least one day rest).

Right now, I am swimming MWF mornings at 5:30 to try improving my weak swimming link.  The masters coach drills us pretty hard and I am exhausted after each workout.  I try to do an intense treadmill workout or bike trainer on other days. 

Because of the indoor nature of Illinos winter training, I do more intense shorter run bike workouts because my mind would explode doing more than 5-6 miles on treadmill or 12-15 miles on bike trainer.  I have been using spinnerval, and some boot camp stuff (iFit Jillian Michaels which is pretty intense) on tread.  Is that sufficient until the weather breaks or do I need to double up on swim days and do an evening workout in addition to morning swim?

I am trying to balance going to hard and burning out from indoor training with being in the best shape possible for spring training.

Thanks for input.

He beat me to it

Hey, I thought we are supposed to keep things on BT family-friendly!  LOL  I'll be watching your log today

So Cayrip, how'd that swim go?

My long swim is tomorrow and I think calls for 4 x 400 for the main set - and I didn't think ahead and did way too many pushups today - it is going to be painful.

Cat