HR Zones: 220-Age - the TRUTH! (Page 8)

Mike R –
I am not sure if this question belongs to this thread but, it definitely has to do with training intensity.  I know that each workout we do in one sport will carry on some benefits into the other two. But in your experience is there a way to roughly estimate how much?

This past Sunday I PR at a half Mary by more than 10 min from my previous one and it was surprising for me as I didn't do any specific work for it, and I was able to sustain a fast pace on my zone 3 relatively comfortable (with the exception of a minor issue that I rather prefer no to discuss )
Anyway, I haven’t done much running (I’ve been battling calves injuries) and almost zero speed work, or LT runs. In the past 3 months I ran: Nov 4 hrs, Dec 9 hrs, and Jan 9 hrs all at zone 1-2; however for the same months my volume and hard sessions for biking and swimming were a lot! Now I am assuming I am also seeing benefits from my previous year of training but I am almost 99% sure that this big jump in performance was due to the hard LT sessions on the trainer and even the long time I’ve been spending in the pool.  Any thoughts?

<<<Anyway, I haven’t done much running (I’ve been battling calves injuries) and almost zero speed work, or LT runs. In the past 3 months I ran: Nov 4 hrs, Dec 9 hrs, and Jan 9 hrs all at zone 1-2; however for the same months my volume and hard sessions for biking and swimming were a lot! Now I am assuming I am also seeing benefits from my previous year of training but I am almost 99% sure that this big jump in performance was due to the hard LT sessions on the trainer and even the long time I’ve been spending in the pool.  Any thoughts?>>>

Mike made this comment I liked: 

<<<Endurance, Strength, Race Speed - the three components to going faster - and there you have it. The 'secret' to training unvielded right before your eyes ;-) >>>

I'm curious how many years of base training you had built up to now? Maybe you had built the base you needed for endurance and strength and your workouts these last 3 months helped you focus on speed, even if it wasn't specifically in the run, there would still be crossover benefits; increased Vo2, etc.

It would seem to me that Mike focuses on the first two parts of the equation here on BT because that is where the majority of us can see improvements and keep us healthy. Otherwise, we all want to train like we are more advanced than we are and do to much too soon. But that's just an 'educated' guess from a guy pretty new to this whole thing.

Jorge - I haven't seen any studies on this but obviously, aerobic training is aerobic training - you could jump up and down for 2 hours and you would still get 'some' benefit, it just wouldn't be specific to triathlon. Riding a bike is a lot like running in terms of cadence - and working your lungs - but I don't have a definitive answer for you in terms of %.

What happened to you,  I do see all the time with athletes - sometimes we even call it 'recovery' :-)

>>All good points, thanks.

see attached

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Kim  - you are right on target. There could be a variance from inside to outside and there will be some issues with the hills/stoplights. So, if you can find a nice flat 7-10 mile stretch of road without stop lights (signs), traffic, etc then you are better off.

On the run - yes,  wait until you have a few weeks of running under your belt before attempting a test.

I hope this helps.

Bump,

Good luck with your Oly this weekend Mike!!!

Two questions as I am an endurance sport newb.

#1 What in the heck is BUMP?

#2 I am just starting to get into the HRM type of training.  My head is spinning form all of the info that gets floated around out there.  Can you suggest something that I can use as a bible of sorts to help figure all of this out, refer to over time, etc?  Everyone I talk to (trainers at the gym) contradict each other and I honestly believe they say things for their own benefit to feel intelligent.  Any help would be appreciated.

The first queston I can handle,,,,,, I just did that to take this thread from the back of the list and to put it to the front so people like yourself could see it without having to do a search....

The first queston I can handle,,,,,, I just did that to take this thread from the back of the list and to put it to the front so people like yourself could see it without having to do a search....

The second is a  bit trickier, I would suggest that you go to the first page on the thread and read what Mike Ricci has to say on the subject.  There is a lot of good info on this thread from him and others that should help confuse you.

Funny your should mention "bible"...there is a book called the Triathlete's Training Bible that goes into detail on all things related to training including setting HR zones and properly using them to work through a season long periodization plan.  Periodization is just a concept of varying your training volume and intensities in a systmatic way through the season to build different aspects of your fitness and ultimately prepare you fo your big races.  Mike Ricci has some good articles on his website about HR training.  I put together my own summary version mostly stealing from Mike and a couple other sources. 

Heart Rate Training:

Heart rate monitors are a relatively inexpensive tool that can be used to help guide our training. The old saying "no pain, no gain" is only partially true. Sure, there are times when you need to push yourself into that discomfort zone and it may even become painful (in a good way of course ) But the majority of triathletes and endurance athletes should be spending a significant amount of their training developing a solid aerobic base rather than logging copious tempo runs and interval sessions at the track. Yes, these workouts have a time and place but they also have a relatively high cost in terms of recovery. They are best used sparingly during the build and peak phases of training. As triathletes I think we collectively have a problem of being too motivated to push our limits. Chances are even an "easy" run is typically at too high of an intensity to serve the purpose (developing base or recovery) unless we have something to guide us. Enter the heart rate monitor...There is no cheating when that display strapped to your wrist is telling you exactly how hard you are really pushing.

One of the most confusing things about using a heart rate monitor during training is to establish heart rate training zones. Google "heart rate training" and you'll find a lot of different opinions about how to set up training zones. A number of formulas have been developed to estimate training zones based around maximum heart rate…Age-Adjusted Method, Karvonen Formula, Leger Formula, MAF Method…but these formulas are estimates at best and can be 20, 30, even 40 beats off for a given individual. A much more precise method for establishing training zones is to base the zones around the lactate threshold, sometimes called anaerobic threshold (AT). Lactate threshold is the highest intensity at which your body can recycle lactic acid as quickly as it is being produced. As endurance athletes knowing our LT is extremely important for both training and racing. A well-trained athlete can sustain LT intensity for 60-75min before overloading their body. Lab testing of LT is the most accurate method for establishing zones but many athletes either can’t afford this type of clinical testing or don’t have access to facilities with the necessary equipment. Luckily, there are ways to estimate your LT by performing field tests that require nothing more than a heart rate monitor. Many coaches have found that the field test method produces results that are very consistent with lab testing and have concluded that field tests are a perfectly acceptable alternative.

Testing Protocol:

Make sure to warm up well for 10 to 15 minutes before starting out. The field test is going to be an individual time trial of 30 minutes. The effort should be very hard, but not so hard that you slow down at the end, think race effort of about 10k running or 30k bike time trial effort. It's best to do this on a track in order to control for hills and avoid changes in effort that could be associated with external factors such as traffic. Another good option is to find a 5k, 8k or 10k race (which ever you think would be closest to a 30min all-out effort). This can actually produce better results since you have the motivation of the other runners to keep you going. Again, the goal is to go as hard as you can sustain for the entire 30min without slowing and finish with nothing left in the tank.

Start the time trial and make sure to press the start button on the heart rate monitor. After the first 10 minutes press the lap button and press the lap button again at 30 minutes. Cool down 5 to 10 minutes easy. The average heart rate over the last 20 minutes is your lactate threshold estimate.

This same protocol applies to the bike as well. It's important to test both the bike and run because you will have different LT valkues for each. As a general rule of thumb, your bike LT will be ~10bpm lower than your run LT but this could vary from 5-15bpm so it's best to test and make sure. For the bike I think it's even more important to perform the test on a trainer or closed course (think time trial) unless you can find a stretch of road or loop that you can ride hard for 30min without any stops or slowing for traffic and turns. Some people will argue that testing on a trainer isn't ideal because you race and train outside. I agree that the trainer isn't ideal but I believe that the control over your testing conditions and focus you can have on a trainer outweighs the negatives of not being outside. If you do use a trainer be sure to have a big fan directly in front of you to help cool your body. 

Training Zone Descriptions (from Mike Ricci, D3Multisport)

Zone 1 – This is considered aerobic and a very easy effort. So easy, that you feel guilty.
When to use Zone 1: Recovery days.
Training Range as a Percentage of LT: Thirty-five or more beats below LT.

Zone 2 – This is an easy effort but not quite as easy as Zone 1. This may be twenty-five beats lower then LT.
When to use Zone 2: Long rides and runs.
Training Range as a Percentage of LT: Twenty-five beats below LT.

Zone 3 – In this training zone you are neither LT, nor aerobic. This zone should be used for longer training sessions only, such as ½ Ironman and Ironman training.
When to use Zone 3: You may use this during Ironman training sessions or you may creep into this zone at the end of long rides or runs.
Training Range as a Percentage of LT: Fifteen beats below to the edge of LT.

Zone 4–5a - This is a training zone that is called LT, or lactate threshold.
When to use Zone 4-5a: These are the workouts that are our ‘hard’ session during the week. The Master’s swim workout, the track workout, or the spin class – these are all LT workouts. Studies have shown that training at, or below, LT creates the greatest benefit as it allows the body to recover quicker then if we train above LT.

Zone 5b - This zone is still LT but it is above LT and it hurts like heck! It could mean five to ten beats above LT. Too much training here leads to over training according to Joe Friel.
When to use Zone 5: Not often, but if you do, this would be at the end of a long hard set.

Zone 5c+ In this zone you are going all out for a very short period of time. According to Friel, this zone, in general, has limited benefit for the multisport athlete. The exception is those who are lacking the capacity to develop muscle mass or recruit fast twitch muscle fibers.

When to use Zone 5: Seldom, but if you do, they are short fast explosions. The recovery time between these intervals may be long, and a few days will be needed after one of these sessions to help the body recover.

http://www.d3multisport.com/articles/determinezones.html 

http://www.d3multisport.com/articles/beinginthezone.html 

OKay, I just read the whole thread and I am swimming in confusion.  Damn this tri stuff.

I used the formula to start but found what I would percieve as zone 2 to be around the 135 mark even though it should be at 120.  Zone 3 to be at 145 and Zone 4 at 155.  At least based on what my thinking is(who knows if this is right).  What really confuses me though is if I push my self on a nice long hill and hump it up the hill my HR will shoot up to the 155-160 area and be back down to the 120ish range within 10-15 seconds.  Seems like it should take longer to return as I am pretty new to this endurance stuff and not in great cardio vascular shape.  I can feel a little burn on the hill, but push through it and it does not stay unless I hit another hill but then gone again.  I have excellant strength in my legs(in terms of ability to move weight in the gym) but not for endurance sports.  Am I just a screwed up mess or should I continue to follow the HR training and I will see improvement?  To be honest I have not been doing the HR training very long but pictured things going differently when comparing perceived effort vs. HR Zone

Buckeye - have you done the LT Test? Once you do that, you'll have solid numbers. Its like reading a manual on how to drive a car. It doesn't mean much until you actually get out there and see what it's actually like. So, try to get the test done ASAP, field or lab and then you'll have some real numbers to work with. For most of us- the talk test works fine for Zone 2. I nice easy pace that you will allow you to to have a conversation with your running partner (or with yourself like I do). :-) - IF you are running and you can't speak in FULL sentences, you are running too hard IF you are trying to run Zone 2 range. I hope this helps.

Mike

PS - thanks Cruse on the race and Joel - your version is solid. I guess I should update my version at some point huh? ;-)