bcagle25's Endurance Ninja's - Closed (Ninja school is in session) (Page 8)

I spent some time today reevaluating my plan. I was originally following a modified plan from trinewbies.com (10 week beginner olympic, which I then extended to 16 weeks).  Today I looked at the 18 week Olympic on BT and the 16 week Olympic on trinewbies. It was pretty obvious the MAJOR difference was the bike portion. These other plans were hitting the Olympic distance by the second week of workouts vs mine was week 9. They were maxing out at 100+ miles per week vs mine at 50.  Any thought on these distances? I was thinking I needed to get more miles on the bike than what my plan said but the other plans may be a little much for now. Maybe once I get a new saddle, which I just ordered, I will be happier because the one that came on my bike is painful right now.

What are the thoughts of spin classes? They are definitely more fun but forget trying to maintain an aerobic pace. Plus I am getting used to riding in aero position so I don't want to get away from that. I am thinking of doing a spin class for 1 of my 3 bike workouts/week.

Hey guys, just catching up on the thread.  I've had a busy week at work, in laws last week here, they just left back to Canada today, etc.  I also had to skip my strength and a swim session this week as something happened to my shoulder from last week's strength session.  I think it is a rotator cuff issue, but I'm seeing a dr. on Monday to see what he says, it's still painful, but seems to have lessened somewhat after almost a week off of swimming.  It doesn't impact me much on bike or running thankfully and it was already a planned rest week so I don't feel bad about the extra rest.

As far as swimming, I like to swim and have thought several times to cut back on swimming to focus on bike run as swim in my strength.  But I swim 2x per week because I think it does help overall fitness, but it has less impact on body and potential injuries, if I ramped up bike and run mileage and no or little swim, I fear I would be more likely to injure.  Also, my mentor in my first year said, don't cut back on swimming, it sets up the bike.  I swam about 20% last year and my plan is about the same this year.  10% sounded low, but it makes sense considering the time allocation in races.

I'll have to check out that postal swim site, sounds like a good time, I like the long steady continuous swims in my plan.

As far as run plans, I did the FIRST (Run Less, Run Fast book) plan for my first marathon and it worked out really great for me.  I only ran the 3 key runs according to the plan and completed the Richmond Marathon in 3:43, right in line with my goal pace according to the plan. 

Ben - I hope you get your sleep back on track, I've had a few poor sleep nights, again work stuff on my mind, which is usually my issue with sleep, but it never keeps me up all night, that has to be horrible.  I need sleep, I'm not one of those that can go on less than 7 hrs/night and prefer and goal is 8 hrs per night, especially as IM training ramps up.

Comfort is huge with bike position, especially at the longer distances. I always wonder why seem people look for the most aero position that might save them a couple of watts and ignore comfort. Being comfortable may lose you a couple watts, but it will pay big dividends on your run. On top of that so many that are so aero use their bullhorns, don't use their aero helmets properly, and load up their bike as if they are going across the country in one single ride so the aero advantage is mute. And yes you hit it with the third point, you can be faster sacrificing some aeroness in your position.

How did yuo fitter work with you? Did he focus on any of the three contact points that you have in general with your bike, or did he just do an overall fit.

Lastly an interesting post was put on slowtwitch the other day, then talks about fits and I think makes some valid and interesting posts. Throws out the notion that your body can only fit certain bikes.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/How_do_pros_perform_on_poor_fits_P3734761/

I myself did my own fitting last year and it seemed to work, but I have nothing to compare that to really I guess. I set up a video camera and ride at different angles and positions. Then I load it up and improve from that point. It takes awhile but it seemed to work last year. Now I am thinking I need a new stem and to lower my seat from my observations on Sunday. However, I am thinking about getting a fit, maybe retul, just not sure if I want to drop the money yet.

I want pics or it didnt happen! And what kind of bike are you on?

This looks great, how long are your intervals? How many times and miles do you plan to run a week.

Your basework seems to have a good start but were you really running 30 miles a week with your long run being 16? That might be stretching it a bit as your long run is just over 50% of your weekly volume. In the future it may be better to take off 6-7 miles and use those miles on other days and increase the frequency you run each week.  

One key thing to look out for here is to not increase distance the same week you increase intensity. I always like to increase distance, hold it for a week, then add in some intensity, that is, after all my base work is done.

Those three weeks "off" might be better to serve as "recovery" weeks and maybe use your original "recovery" weeks to put in some more training. Just a thought as how best to incorporate life into your training. I feel if you take those weeks off, then maybe it will be a few days to get back on the train after you get home, and those few days can add up and put you behind in training. Like I said this is just a thought and something I would consider.

Justin, that swim is great practice for OWS! 30 minutes straight is still a solid time. How did your arms feel after, I always use the rule of 2x longer plus 200 yards to find what I could swim in an hour with a 30 min TT, if you want to use that. Good luck on attempt #2! I will be swimming mine next Saturday.

I have never done a spin class so I can't speak from esperience, but I think it can only help you out. The major difference is that you are not riding your bike and so obviously the fit will be a bit different. Throw that aside and you are getting  good intensity/interval workout. It can be a good muscular strength workout if you have a higher resistance selected. I would at least give the spin classes a shot and see how they workout for you.

As for your saddle what are you on right now and what are you switching too? All I have to say is ISM, but to each their own, and that is my own preference.

With the plan, 50 miles a week is really not much, and only twice as long as you will be riding in the race. Are you time limited, then maybe if those 50 miles are at a higher intensity it could work, but instensity is not always the best substitute for distance. Olympic races though, can be raced at a much higher intensity then longer distances. Could you work somewhere in the middle 60-80 miles a week? Lots of questions need to be asked here

What is your goal on the bike in the race?

Can you ride 24 miles right now and run 10k?

Are you better with volume or intensity?

Do you have time for more training?

Are you a better runner/biker?

Right on here! I agree that swimming does set up the bike, fitness wise. However, my belief is that you need to look into that  a bit more. IMO a good swim sets up a good bike, a properly paced swim that is. Meaning having good swim training and learning to swim well and strong without exerting yourself will set you up for a good bike. Many people good to hard on the swim, or do not have the swim properly trained and then follow with a bad bike. Over the years I have learned the better fit I am in the pool, the better I come out of the water and on the bike. Case in point Racine 70.3 2010 vs 2011. I swam 4 minutes faster in 2011, but I was also more fit and used less energy, had a lower HR, and got on the bike ready to go! 10% is a good starting point on a distance perspective, 20% can easily still work, especially if swimming is still a weakness. Being consistent weekly in the pool is huge. Get at least one session per week in, try for 2 though. Muscle memory goes a looooong way with swimming and helps with form. try not to miss more then one swim session per week, triathletes tend to drop swimming first and it is the common challenge of all three as well.

And yes swimming easy in the pool is a great form of recovery from bike and run. Never done it, but I have heard aqua jogging helps not only with injuries but to maybe even add in another run session per week and minimize the impact on your body.

Lets talk about BIKES!!!

What is everyone riding this year?

I was about to by my coach's Trek SC 9.9 but had to pull back and need to wait another year to drop that kind of money on a bike. Now with all the "super bikes" out with the newest Cervelo out (P5) I want to join in the world of those bikes. I am currently on a 2009 Orbea Ora, a decent, cheap, starter buy, but now I want the whole pie! Was interested in the P5, but at $6500 just for the framset, I will continue to ignore Cervelo until they make their prices more in-line with the market. So now I am eyeing up the BMC TM01, Scott Plasma 3, and might wait until my coach sells his new Trek SC 9.9 again this fall.

I also have a 2008 Specialized Tarmac elite as my road bike that I use mostly in the fall, and I have an old Trek aluminum frame that I want to turn into a fixed gear bike for getting around town.

wheww, you have had a busy morning replying! Hope you got some sleep. Here are my answers

Saddle - Yes, I went with the ISM Road, My brother has that, I sat on his bike for a few minutes and it felt pretty good

Generally my goal is to MOP right now. This being my first and looking at past results I would be happy with that. It seems my biking is the weakest link right now.

Ride 24 Miles? I used to ride more and could do that no problem. I can now but will be dead. Probably in another couple of weeks I will be able to without slowing down at the end.

Run 10k? Yes I can, although probably at a 10 minute mile. In the past month I have done 5 miles at about 9:15/mile.

Time? I will make more time one way or another!! Every time I think I don't have enough I look at plans for HIM and IM and think I have all the time in the world right now.

Biker/Runner? Probably biker once I get into it more. I have had 5 knee surgeries including both ACL's so I worry if they will hold up on long distance runs. Biking is great for them.

I agree the 50 miles / week sounds way low. I am going to try and get to get to the 100 miles/week range but need a couple more weeks and my new saddle to come in.

As far as bikes - As I have said,I picked up a Cervelo P2. I know it is more than I need right now, but it was such a good deal. I previously had a Trek 1000 which I have had for about 11 years. 

For tri's I'm riding a 4-yr-old P3 with Dura Ace, bought last year.

I love this thing.

It's my first tri bike, and was entirely shocked how little time it took to get comfortable on it. Aside from the frame there's very little special about it, which is great - which means I don't have to be an engineer to do my own maintenance.

The bike is immensely better than I will ever be, which perfectly eliminates any opportunity to blame the tools, I know it's the craftsman that's slow. No intention of getting aero wheels, hate the sound and for me at 50 lbs rich (now down to 45, actually) there's absolutely no point.

For general riding I have a carbon Trek 5500 with Ultegra which is closing in on 10 years old. Still a great bike I really enjoy riding.

Trek SC 7.2 w/SRAM Force crank and carbon cockpit upgrades, looking at adding carbon wheels this year.

Sleep schedule seems to be back on for me (crossing my fingers) and classes start tomorrow so I will have much more of a routine now. Got in some good workouts yesterday with a solid swim and a run after the swim. Our pool here at the Y is kept at 84 degrees (freakin warm!) so I always have problems running after. Yesterday was an easy 3 mile run and the lady next to me thought I was running through the Sahara, I was soaking wet at the end of it.

Sounds like we have some Cervelo and Trek love here. Living in Wisconsin Trek reigns supreme. I will admit I am not even close ability-wise to ride one of these "super bikes" that are coming out, but hey they are fun to ride, cool to look it, and I am sure fun to work on as well. Even with the crazt prices and the minor calculations gained with weight, aeroness, etc. I still really want one, so I will see where I stand later in the year. Like I said my coach was willing to sell me his Trek 9.9 for $4k after just one season of use, so that may be another great deal this fall.

What's on tap for everyone today? I have a long run that I am hoping to get done outside.

Yeah, the mileage is a bit weird and while my base was 20-30 miles of running a week, it was definitely sporadic.  Because I follow the FIRST plan a lot, I only have 3 days to get runs in and during the week, it's sometimes tough to get more than 5 miles in before work.  But you are right in that I need to even this out a bit.  And yes to the don't increase volume and intensity in the same week -  I need to remember this!

That's a great idea about the recovery weeks.  I'm going to play around with my schedule a bit to see how I can accomplish this.

This is the first week that I couldn't get all my planned run mileage in.  We got an ice/freezing rain storm in the DC area so Saturday morning, I missed group run in favor of 30 miles on the bike. I don't have great trail shoes or spikes for running on ice and I really don't need to break an ankle right now. This morning, I was worried about freeze over, so I opted for the treadmill.  Most people cringe at that and I do mostly but not worth the potential injury.  Since I knew I would get all my mileage in, I opted for a faster workout - 7 miles, close to goal race pace.  I started out too slow so I made it in 61:30, about an 8:47 pace.  No way I could have done 8:30s but it was nice to see where I am in my training.

This is great advice and something I am trying to adapt into my training. I'm still so new to this sport, only 5 tris total (2 sprints, 3 olys) and for the most part I  aim just to finish.  This year I'd like really concentrate on making some goals and training better.  I usually am a once-a-week swimmer and have made it a goal to get in at least 2 swims a week.

I'm a novice in this field - just using my road bike (Specialized Dolce) for my tris.  I'd looooove to get a tri bike and hope to by next season.  What are the thoughts of adding aerobars to a road bike? I've heard mixed reviews.