RE-OPENED Birkierunner's 2013 mentor group - RE-OPENED!!! (Page 8)

Yes I have a plan for the mini-marathon.  It is a combination of a recommendation by the local running club and the half-marathon plan found here on BT, with some massaging and customizing to make it work for me.  The running club plan didn't have any built in recovery weeks - to me that was a major problem.  The difficulty I had was building the mileage so that I have a reasonable chance of finishing the mini while still doing my swim, bike, strength, and core workouts - all while avoiding an injury.  I think I have something that will work.  We will see as we move forward.

"Oh, and since I didn't mention it before - I wish I had some your swim speed!" - Thanks.  Wouldn't it be cool to do an exchange?  I give you 15 seconds/100 swim speed and you give me 1 minute/mile run pace.  LOL, I am game if you can figure out how to make that happen!

The fit is supposed to be fairly snug, but reasonably comfortable and allow good arm movement, but it definitely will let some water in and that's normal.  So...now I'm sure you're wondering what happens when you pee in your wetsuit?? 

I think that's one instance where even Dr. Spock's Vulcan mind-meld technique wouldn't work

As you've stated before, you're "training to train" so, yeah, the 50k TT isn't needed.  We typically have our athletes to 2 different timed tests (relatively short btw) to determine critical power which is then used to guide their training.  Racing will be a good way to determine "where you're at"

(edited to correct terminology)

Jim - are you referring to the 20 and 5min tests that you do to calculate CP, or is this something different?

Ha!!!!, I didn't realize I was mixing my bike and run terminology...that's what I get for trying to mult-task!  I was answering the bike question but had Scott's run comments in my head at the same time while doing other things.  Yep, for biking we do the 5 and 20 min tests for determining critical power.  Obviously, if you don't have the ability to measure power we instead rely on average heart rate.  For the run we use 1000 m and 3000 m tests to get at critical velocity (ca. 10k effort).

Damn!  So is that a nice way of saying get off your arse and put in the miles?  

Is there a specific reason to do those distances rather than a 5K effort?  Is the 5K just considered a little further than needed?

Once you have the 10K effort, do you rely on something like Mcmillan, or do you have your own calculations?

You can use a 5k effort in Monod's approach to modelling critical velocity but, as you suggest, we can get by on using a shorter distance which is not as intimidating to the athlete and may promote a better attitude by the athlete because they know they can more likely give a good faith effort at "pushing it" in a shorter test.  I did a 5k test on the track a couple of months ago and after 3k asked myself "why the heck did I choose this distance?"    Data points from the 2 different run tests are plugged into the model to come up with the 10k pace.  We then use that pace to come up with zones based more on Daniels' VDOT approach...which, although more related to VO2 max, are very useful in developing the athlete's training zones.

One thing I wanted to accomplish this past holiday season was to not be a total slug like I was during the 2011-12 holiday season.  So, for grins I looked in my BT training logs for last year to compare to this past December and this month.

December 2011:  run 30 miles; 0 bike, 0 swim, 0 x-c skiing
January 2012:  run 73 miles; 2:45 of x-c skiing

December 2012: run 55 miles; bike 75 miles, 0 swim, 0 x-c skiing
January 2013 (thru Jan 10 only): bike 95 miles, run 32, 0 swim, 0 x-c

I haven't focused on x-c ski racing the past few years so my training hours are waaaay below what they normally would be in December and January in a "ski year"....but at least my last few weeks has shown that I've done a slightly better job of getting in run and bike mileage this past holiday season compared to last year's - and we're only 10 days into January so far so I should get in quite a bit more for January.

Its retrospective looks at training like this that helps you evaluate your training program and points to the importance of keeping a training log...the numbers don't lie! 

Well this should be fun:

Dec 11: Swim = 0, Bike = 35min, Run = 44.5 miles

Dec 12: Swim = 500m, Bike = 0, Run = 151.6 miles

Jan 12: Swim = 0, Bike = 0, Run = 0

Jan 13: Swim = 0, Bike = 12.7 miles, Run = 61 miles

I'm about 12 pounds lighter than I was at the same time last year, and have 3 more weeks to really blow out January 2012's Workout Goose Egg.

Yeah, I fell off the rails these past couple of months.  I just let myself lose some of the motivation being injured, rather than focusing on the swim and bike.

It's in the past - I'll just hope that the massage on Tuesday will help sort out the ITB issues, and I can begin ramping up the run volume.

So somebody is going to have to explain to me how something like this happens.

The last couple times I have gone to the pool I have noticed really cold water coming out of the "returns" into the pool.  I didn't think much of it other than they had turned the heater down to save a couple dollars.  Then this morning, I go and the pool is closed indefinitely.  Apparently there are cracks and it has been leaking - to the point they can no longer stay ahead of it.  The 'cold' water was actually 'new' water being pumped in.

Maybe this is the training gods way of saying it is time to find a pool that is closer than 65 miles?

OK, I know this is likely going to break open the hornets nest!  I look forward to hearing other opinions.  However, given my background in swimming, it is not terribly likely that I will change my mind so I will agree to agreeably disagree before I let the hornets loose.

As I said in a previous post, the pool I have been using is no longer available.  I checked in to the local Master's program and as luck would have it, there was a workout this afternoon, so I went by the pool.  Up on a white-board the workout was written down.  It included IM's, some side-pulll nonsense, a WHOLE bunch of kicking, some work with paddles, a bunch of work with fins, and a couple more laps of "choice" swimming.

I understand the workout I described was for a swim team, it does however, beg a question.  As a triathlete, does your swim workout include all four strokes, side-pull and/or paddle work, fins and kickboard work?

Now the hornets nest - My personal opinion is that if I'm not doing it in a triathlon, I'm not doing it in training.  I am doing freestyle in a triathlon, I am doing freestyle in training.  End of discussion in my mind.  For the life of me, I don't understand side-pull work.  I think all that does is screw up your freestyle. If you don't have a good body roll, you are NOT going to have an efficient freestyle.  In my humble opinion, side-pull work merely guarantees you are not going to have proper body roll.  I actually break out with a good belly laugh every time I see someone with fins or hear someone say I should use fins.  Can I use fins in a triathlon or swim meet?  Then why artificially increase your speed, and alter your stroke mechanics by the way, using fins in training?  Enough said.  And a kickboard?  Back when I was swimming, we averaged 12-15K meters/day, something like 336,000-420,000 meters/month.  In over ten years of that kind of volume, I don't recall doing 500 meters of kicking in a month, let alone a workout.  Using paddles has some merit because it will teach you proper hand position in the water.  Beyond that they are useless.  I have heard the argument about how they increase your strength - go to the weight room, you get much bigger bang for your buck in far less time.

I will admit, I am approaching this from a swimmer's perspective (OK, an OLD swimmers perspective).  I understand that many triathletes were not swimmers first so their training routines may be different.  What you do, or what you and your coach have decided you need to do is obviously up to you.  I am just curious, what is everyone else doing?

I am looking forward to everyone's comments.

Swimming for me basically means just freestyle, with some breaststroke for cooldown.  I'll occassionally use paddles and see the benefit in them, but haven't used fins for a while.  Just to mix things up and avoid some monotony it wouldn't be a bad idea to swim different strokes, but you obviously need to focus on what you'll use the most.

All that said I'm very much an MOP swimmer, and could use serious improvement in certain areas.  I think that when you have trouble with technique, you're going to need differently than someone who has their technique engrained.

Yikes!  Yeah, you need to find something closer.  I'm pretty spoiled...I have a local pool that I have an annual membership for...unlimited swimming for about $100/year.  There are tons of YMCAs between where I live and work but membership fees are ridiculous imo.  One of them had a sweet outdoor 50m pool that I loved to swim in but they got rid of it when they remodeled their aquatic center. Haven't been back since.  Another Y that I used a long time ago had a pool that was run by a long distance swimmer who was training to to a double crossing of the English Channel.  He kept the pool freezing cold all the time.

Scott, maybe you need to buy an Endless Pool? LOL

I never practice any other strokes other than freestyle.  Don't use fins either.  When I have tried to use a kickboard (coach in local unofficial masters workout incorporated them) I never can go very fast.  I firmly believe...and its totally conjecture on my part....that some coaches dream up complicated workouts with endless use of toys like fins, kickboards, bands around feet, drills, complicated ladders of distances with different strokes because they are trying to make the workout interesting....because....Scott, close your eyes....swimming is just so freaking boring...there, I said it....staring down at that black line is just so fricking boring.  I don't think there's any way a swim workout needs to be complicated in order to be effective.  Now, lake swimming is totally different...I love it, but its hard to do traditional speed work without knowing distances but give me a lake over the pool anytime.

Enter the Garmin 910.    I haven't got to swim open water with it yet, but plan to see how it works once Spring hits.

Good week of training for me this past week - best in a while actually.  4 swims, 3 rides, 3 runs.  All the runs are short, but just trying to keep some semblance of consistency, I can't wait to start upping the mileage as soon as my ITB is better.  Got in almost a 3hr ride on Saturday and only had to add knee warmers and a long sleeve jersey for the ride - bike came back looking like it had been in a cyclocross event, but the weather was great.  Even more amazing was the fact I only saw a couple of other cyclists when I expected to see tons.

Yeah, I have the 910 and have thought of that.  I've only used it in races but not training though.  I like the idea of recovering "on the wall" between intervals in a pool rather than having to tread water in a lake.  I do my OWS in a pristine clear county park lake nearby.  Its 0.4 mi across and I use one crossing as an "interval" and rest on each shore between crossings.  Our tri club has group swims there on Wed night every week of summer with the occasional picnic and beers afterwards. 

Nice!  I have a very large manmade lake 5 min from my house in one of the local conservation parks.  One of the first Tri's of the year is held there every year with a tough 7km run at the end.  Last year the lake was a bust because we had such an unbelievably dry summer, the water receded like never before.  I was in ankle deep water at points where I would normally be swimming.

They actually have three large posts setup in the water that someone measured with a laser sighter, and are supposed to be 175M from 1st to 3rd.   I use those for intervals in the lake - guess I'll test the Garmin against those and see how it does.

I only got to swim with my 910 in open water once.  Unfortunately, it remains at the bottom of Tempe Town Lake, so I never got to review my actual swim data.  When they advertise a quick release kit, they aren't kidding.  

I've read horror stories like that before and it makes me second guess getting the quick release kit.  I still haven't bothered to get it since most of my riding is on the trainer at the moment.  But come race season I'm going to want it - but yeah, I'm a little nervous with those stories.

Had dinner with friends on Friday and they want to plan a race in cottage country - myself, the husband, and another race couple would race and the remaining two would spectate.  The only catch is that the race has to be on Saturday so we can appropriately celebrate on Saturday night.

We did the same thing for my first HIM and it was a lot of fun, so I'm hoping we can coordinate this one to work.  The race we're targetting is a very cool Olympic, because a steamship takes you out onto the lake, drops you off 1.5km from shore and then you have to swim it back.

I had it at the swim exit.  Ironman built stairs down into the water because at Arizona, you are essentially scaling a wall to get out of the water.  I was on the far right set of steps, but someone in front of me was having a hard time getting out.  Rather than be patient, I raised my left arm for the volunteer next to me to help pull me out of the water.  He grabbed me by my left wrist and as he pulled, my watch "quick-released" and sunk to the bottom of the river.  If there weren't a line of about 100 athletes ready to exit the water right behind me, I'd have gone diving after it.

It's a great watch, and I'll eventually buy another one, but I'll keep using my 405 for the time being.  I don't think I'll "need" the 910 until I get closer to my HIM in June.