mcgilmartin's 2013 Mentor Group~ let's get swimming! CLOSED FOR TRAINING (Page 8)

Sorry about your Seahawks losing.  I'm a Bears fan and we just choked.  Better to lose in the playoffs.

I would love to have some workouts to follow. I like Swim Planner but variety is good. I am using some off this "offseason" time to incorporate drills into workouts, and for the last week or two have been working on my bilateral breathing and hip rotation, like swimming with fists and a buoy or touching hands together before each stroke (are there names for these things??). So any drills that help with form and technique would also be great. Thanks Matt!

Thanks for the advice on pacing, I'll give it a try, my biggest problem is I have very little time to allow for an extended workout session more often than not, I commit to an hour at lunch during the day and usually another hour plus after i get my son to bed, so I have the tendency to try and jam in as much as possible in that hour as I can come up with.  If I get a babysitter on the weekend I can get out for a long run or gym session, but that doesnt always work out, especially in the winter.  The little guys only 5, and with it just being the two of us it's real hard to break away for an extended gym session - how do you manage to squeeze the time in Matt?. 

As to volume - Right now, I swim at lunch M,W, F and put in a little over a mile, Tu,Th, and Sat I run 4-8 miles ea depending on available time and my pace (usually somewhere in between a 7 to 9 minute mile depending on how hard im pushing).  I'll usually hit the bike at night on my run days for an hour or so, (I'm trying out the Novice Competitor High volume sequence from Trainerroad , but dropping Sunday's long ride and doing yoga there instead). I do strength training at night on my swim days( one of the P90x upper body routines usually).  Both riding the bike and swimming are brand new to me as of Thanksgiving-ish '12.

I'd love some intro swim workouts, right now I mostly tend to get a mile in freestyle and try and keep track of breathing to both sides and trying to kick as little as necessary and playing around with my stroke to see what seems to work best.  One of my contractors is a swim coach, so if I can break down my ego a bit, I'm thinking about seeing if he'll watch a swim or two of mine and give me some advice for a few bucks

Great idea, Jen.  Here's a starting list:

Distance Per Stroke (DPS)

Swimming all strokes getting maximum distance per stroke. With free and back, emphasize a long body line, hip and shoulder rotation, minimizing resistance. With breast and fly, keep the body line long in the front of your stroke. Steady the rhythm, and swim in the front quadrant of all strokes.

Fist Swimming

Swimming with hands completely in a fist. No "karate-chop" hands allowed! Concentrate on body position, using your forearm in the catch and optimum elbow bend through the stroke. When you return to swimming with an open palm, your hands will feel as large as kickboards! Have fun and think Distance Per Stroke!

Golf

While swimming 50's repeats, calculate your "score" for each 50 by counting your strokes in both directions (one arm equals one stroke) and adding it to your time. For example: If you swim 50 freestyle with 20 strokes per 25 in a time of :40, you would have a score of 80 (20 + 20 + 40). Descend your score by taking less strokes and/or completing the 50 in less seconds with each successive 50

Specific Freestyle Stuff:

Catch-Up Drill

When swimming Full Catchup freestyle, pull with one arm at a time and touch your hands in a streamlined position out front between each alternating arm stroke. Keep your extended hands about 8 inches under the surface of the water for improved body position. Concentrate on swimming in the front quadrant and keep a long, streamlined body line.

You can progress to simply exchanging hands in the "passing zone" extended in front. We call this the "Ear Catch-Up" Drill, wherein you begin your pull as your opposite arm passes by your ear near the completion of the recovery.

Fingertip Drag Drill

This drill is swimming normal Freestyle while dragging your fingertips along the surface of the water on the recovery. Focus on a high elbow recovery, which ensures proper hand and elbow position at your hand entry. You should also check your body position during this drill, focusing on good side-to-side rotation.

An alternate version of this drill involves dragging the entire hand, wrist-deep, through the water. This helps build strength and speed of the arm recovery motion.

Gallop Drill

This is the same as the 6-Count Drill above, but you take three strokes as you switch from side to side. Focus on long strokes and quick hips in these three strokes, completely rotating from one side to the other. Maintain great body position while kicking on your side!

Single Arm (R, L) Drill

Single arm freestyle swimming can be done in one of two ways.

Preferred: With the opposite (nonworking arm) at your side. Breathe to the side of the nonworking arm. The secret to success with this drill is to complete your breath before stroking. Concentrate on the catch, initiating body rotation with the core body muscles. Take this drill slowly: technique is more important than speed.

Old-School: With the opposite (nonworking arm) extended in front. Breathe to the side of the working arm. Focus on high elbow recovery, hand entry, and hand acceleration.

Rhythm Drill

Single Arm freestyle with opposite arm at your side (see description above), executing 2 right arms and then 2 left arms. This takes some practice, but may very well become your favorite freestyle drill once you master it. Focus on rhythm and timing from the hips. Remember to take your breath with an arm extended out front (on the opposite side of the extended arm). If you swim this drill easily and well, your technique is close to perfect.

Awesome, thanks!Going to try some tonight.

Matt I agree that losing in the playoffs is better.  I would've preferred the first half slaughter continue than lose in the last 31 seconds but such is life. 

Now on to bike buying. I've been out looking and not much in the used market here that doesn't have a basket or fenders.   The local bike shops have new bikes with basic tiagra parts for $850 (specialized sport).  They all suggest I go up a level to $1000 for the Specialized ellite type with 105 parts and a ten speed system that can be upgraded years later.  There is also the Cannodale Caad 10 which is $1550 and supposedly the best bang for my buck going up to $3000.  I've thought about the $850 and then two years from now upgrading to something twice as much.  However the $1000 tier seems the better value now.  Suggestions???  I have the means to buy any of them but I also have to think about shoes, pedals, and an indoor trainer. Oh yeah and probably need a helmet too. No way am I going out on slick wet Washington roads for awhile.  I haven't ridden in years so not looking forward to winter riding. 

Okay off to the gym to ride "my bike".

lol  I like the basket and fenders comment.  :-) 

There will always always be more stuff to buy in Triathlon.    I still like the money saving approach.   Here's a crazy thought.  The most important thing is to ride a bike that fits you very well. 

You would probably be faster riding a Schwinn Varsity with baskets and fenders than a $3000 bike that does not fit.  And I'm not exaggerating.   

  SO stop looking for a bike.  pay for a professional fitting.   They will tell you what size you need, and brands/models that will work.     THEN buy a used bike online!    I know it does not fit us "type A" personalities  to wait and patiently go about this,  but please don't rush out and get something.    And this fitting I'm talking about will run you like $200-$300   so I don't mean the local bike shop guys saying  "um stand over the top tube    "yup it fits, want us to wrap it up for ya?"

Sounds great Matt!  Thanks!   Ya I think trying to work on one drill at a time and trying to do it "right" would help me.

And I second you on the http://www.swimsmooth.com/

Visualization is huge. 

Yes!!  or having the sun blinding you every time you take a breath.  

I usually hold off on the open water swimming stuff until spring.. most people are getting acclimated to the water at this point and the sheer amount of information can be overwhelming.

That being said, you are 100% correct!

My logs are "friends only"  like Matt's      Primarily cause I don't want to give out too much info like where the BT Fantasy league #2  Massive Trophy lives.  God forbid someone steals it from me.     Course the first place I would look for it if I came home to find it missing is at Matt's house.  :-) 

in any case I added everyone from the last roster post.    feel free to call me friend on yours.  or... don't!    for now test the water,  see if you like me first.  It's only prudent.  

Otherwise "Come on in,  the water's warm...."

BT Fantasy league #2 Massive Trophy LOL~ really?

I thought you won like $100 bucks and a case of Old Style for that.

I've been derelict in getting mine open, I'll add you all tomorrow AM.  In all truthfulness, if your full real name appears anywhere on BT, you will show up in Google results, so privacy is a good idea here.

Not that you'll find anything exciting in my training blog other than a gratuitous use of F-bombs and a lot of detail about yoga

Hi Donald

Happy to hear you enjoyed your stay in Singapore. The food here is indeed delicious. Main reason I took up running and the lot: allows me to eat more of it

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Matt

Thank you for posting the swim drills. Saved them for later. I am a great fan of Mr Smooth as well. Visualization definitely helps. As for my swimming, I am still struggling to do back-to-back 50m laps. Last week I gave myself 2 minutes per length. It takes me +/- 1'10'' per 50m so that leaves me with 50 seconds to recover. This week I am going to cut total time down to 1'50 per length. And so on...
Good idea ? Or can you suggest a different approach ?

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On a seperate note, this morning I did the Lactate Treshold Heart Rate test as explained on Joe Friel's site (link http://www.trainingbible.com/joesblog/2009/11/quick-guide-to-setting-zones.html . Turns out what I thought was my zone 2 was actually still well in zone 1 ... Time to pick up the pace going forward!

Max

This is SO helpful Matt, thanks!  Though I was on the swim team in high school and college, that was a bazillion years ago and it's stunning how little I remember (selective memory, I suppose).  Even then, the focus was always breaststroke, so I feel like I'm starting from scratch with freestyle.  Looking forward to giving these drills a try---keep 'em coming!

Okay Dave,  So what I hear you saying is that you want me to ride around in a bike with a basket, fenders and a little dog named toto while wearing a pointed hat just because the bike fits?  What are you really trying to say about me? This sounds like a bet between you and Matt to see what you can get the new guy to do.   

Two out of the three bike shops I have looked at have professional fittings.  One charges $35 and gives the bike models that fit whether they sell them or not.  The other one is free as a way to attract new customers.  They give you a list of specialized and cannondale bikes that will fit you as that is what they sell.  There are two used bike shops in town but the inventory is either the $250 1970s bike fender and basket included or $1000 for a super fancy road bike.  Right now neither has anything in between except for fixed gear bikes.  Craig's list has several tri bikes but few road bikes near my size since I should take between 55-57 inch.  The ones that are near that size are more expensive than the new ones.  I already planned on the fitting and have an appt set for Thursday.  That still brings me back to the beginning.  

Thanks Jqwinn!  The reviews on that bike are very good for the price range.  Where did you buy it at for $500? That would fit my ideal price and make Dave happy. I would prefer a bike that I don't have to worry about wrecking on or someone stealing because of the value.  This one is the best I've seen so far.

Richard, totally.  Just wait till we ask you to post pictures :D

Sounds like the $35 option is awesome!  I wish I knew a shop that would do that for me.  Let us know how it goes... then we can discuss the findings.  This will be a good lesson for everyone.

jgwinn0 - 2013-01-15 8:53 AM For what its worth, i was in the same boat as you late last year.  I ended up going with an inexpensive entry level road bike (GTR series 5, paid $500)  on the assumption that if I really liked it I could justify the expense to myself to upgrade in '13 or '14.  The last couple months represent the only time i've ever ridden bike for any reason other than chasing my son around the neighborhood in the last 25 years (barring a couple mountain bike excursions here and there), so i had a lot of trouble justifying a $1000+ bike in my head as a starter.  It may not have a basket and fenders, but I can always pick those up, my son does want me to put his spiderman bell on the handlebars though, so the basket may be a tough fit, especially if i add in a pair of clip on aero bars 

Jeremy, thanks for sharing this.  Indeed it sounds like you got a screaming deal on a bike that suits your needs for your first year or two.  Certainly reduces the amount of stress in your life related to equipment!

Max,

I think you're leaving way too much rest in between intervals.  You're only swimming 50 meters at a time, you don't need 40 seconds in between.  Here's what I think you need to do.  Everyone else for that matter, too.

Get in the water and do time trials.  I want to see 500, 1000, and 1500 meter (or yards if that's your pool) time trials.  We can then calculate your t-pace and give you the right intervals.  Don't worry about whether the TT's are good or bad, we need to establish a benchmark for everyone.