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2008-01-17 3:35 PM
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Subject: RE: jesswah's group - FULL of sexy triathletes!
I'm a little behind on my goals. The wife has had a debilitating migraine, my sister had a baby, and as usual my kids don't understand, "Daddy can't play, I have to train."

I'm gonna have to see what I can pull off today and tomorrow and then make up the rest in two BRICKS on Saturday and Sunday. I knew I was setting my goals high, but therein lies the challenge. And if I'm on my trainer at 11pm Sunday night, so be it. The gym two buildings over just closed on the 15th. Which really sux. I was able to get in an easy 20 miles a week during work time basically. The old gym owner told me the landlord is looking for another gym to move in, so I can only hope and pray...


2008-01-17 3:47 PM
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Subject: RE: jesswah's group - FULL of sexy triathletes!

My apologies for being "obsessed" with HR monitoring, but I've got another question on that matter:

How come that when I run at 83% of my Max HR, I feel fine over a long period of time, while when reaching 83% of my MHR on my bicycle, I feel that I have to slow down and ease the effort?

What do I miss?

Thanks in advance. 

 

2008-01-17 7:18 PM
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Subject: RE: jesswah's group - FULL of sexy triathletes!
Ronen - 2008-01-17 1:47 PM

My apologies for being "obsessed" with HR monitoring, but I've got another question on that matter:

How come that when I run at 83% of my Max HR, I feel fine over a long period of time, while when reaching 83% of my MHR on my bicycle, I feel that I have to slow down and ease the effort?

What do I miss?

Thanks in advance. 

First, I think HR training is a great tool to help you keep your effort level in check.

Because cycling tends to be less aerobically intensive than running, your max HR and HR zones are different for the 2 sports.  For me 160bpm is ~80%mhr when I run.  On the bike, it's probably >85% (haven't determined my cycling max HR).  So if you are using your running max HR to determine intensity during cycling, you'll feel like you have to work harder to attain the same HR.  You can determin your HR zones for cycling much in the same way that you would for running.  You can ride at an increasing pace until you are sprinting all out to get your Max HR.  But you can also do field tests on a short loop course looking at the time it takes, and your HR to determine your lactate threshold HR - then use tables to look up your training zones.  I think for any given effort level, you cycling HR should be ~5-10bpm lower than your running HR (same effort).

This page has a link to another site with how to test, and probably also the tables, if you are interested.  Don't get too caught up in the numbers though.  Many other things can affect your HR - fatigue from previous workouts, sleep deprivation...

2008-01-18 9:58 AM
in reply to: #1162579

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Subject: RE: jesswah's group - FULL of sexy triathletes!
Ronen,

I can totally understand your focus on your heart rate monitor. I use a heart rate monitor on a regular basis. Overtime you will be able to guess pretty close what your heart rate is whether training or at rest. However, in the beginning, it takes a while to better understand the measurements and the training philosophy.

I blew up during my first marathon, and I believe it was because I went out too hard. Probably a classic first timer mistake. I have made plenty of those. Anyway, someone suggested that I use a heart rate monitor. I started using one and I was surprised to see how my heart rate spiked at the beginning of races. It took me a while using my heart rate monitor to allow me to train in the proper zone, or in my case to build a bigger base. Base training can be challenging because, for me at least, I needed to slow down both biking and running, in order to stay in a certain heart rate range. Those that do not use a heart rate monitor might argue that you can train based on perceived effort. I am too analytical for that. I never race without my heart rate monitor and I have never blown up since my first race. For me, it is a great tool. So be obsessed and use it to help you trainer smarter. I believe it is a great tool.

As for the rest, Jess is spot on. Most of what I have read and learned states that you would train 5 - 10 bpm slower on the bike than on the run. For example, if I am base training, I would look to keep my HR below 155 on the run and below 146 on the bike. Also keep in mind that unless you have field tested to determine your max heart rate, you are likely off somewhat in your estimates. Finally, several things can effect your HR (fatigue, hydration, illness, training too hard, medication, etc.).

Edited by gatjr33 2008-01-18 10:01 AM
2008-01-18 10:00 AM
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Subject: RE: jesswah's group - FULL of sexy triathletes!
Gator22

It must be just about time for you to visit Robyn's group again to stir the pot. You cannot let them maintain their focus.

Edited by gatjr33 2008-01-18 10:00 AM
2008-01-18 10:12 AM
in reply to: #1162863

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Subject: RE: jesswah's group - FULL of sexy triathletes!
jesswah - 2008-01-17 5:18 PM
Ronen - 2008-01-17 1:47 PM

My apologies for being "obsessed" with HR monitoring, but I've got another question on that matter:

How come that when I run at 83% of my Max HR, I feel fine over a long period of time, while when reaching 83% of my MHR on my bicycle, I feel that I have to slow down and ease the effort?

What do I miss?

Thanks in advance.

First, I think HR training is a great tool to help you keep your effort level in check.

Because cycling tends to be less aerobically intensive than running, your max HR and HR zones are different for the 2 sports. For me 160bpm is ~80%mhr when I run. On the bike, it's probably >85% (haven't determined my cycling max HR). So if you are using your running max HR to determine intensity during cycling, you'll feel like you have to work harder to attain the same HR. You can determin your HR zones for cycling much in the same way that you would for running. You can ride at an increasing pace until you are sprinting all out to get your Max HR. But you can also do field tests on a short loop course looking at the time it takes, and your HR to determine your lactate threshold HR - then use tables to look up your training zones. I think for any given effort level, you cycling HR should be ~5-10bpm lower than your running HR (same effort).

This page has a link to another site with how to test, and probably also the tables, if you are interested. Don't get too caught up in the numbers though. Many other things can affect your HR - fatigue from previous workouts, sleep deprivation...

Thank you, Jess. This explains it then.

One of the reasons for my questions has to do with the spinning class I am attending now. The instructor is using HRM and guides the group based on HRM. He defined 4 HR levels (zones) and at any given time he calls the group the HR level we should be in. What I noticed is that I can barely keep at it when he calls for levels 3 (85% to 95%) and 4 (95% to 100%) - and actually, I never reached level 4 - no matter how hard I tried...

 

On another note, I exercised some kick drills the other night at the pool. I did better that the first time - and managed to complete a full 25 yards lap before getting a muscle cramp in the back of my right thigh... Although I completed the lap, it was a very very long lap...

Wish you all a great weekend!



2008-01-18 10:28 AM
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Subject: RE: jesswah's group - FULL of sexy triathletes!

gatjr33 - 2008-01-18 7:58 AM Ronen, I can totally understand your focus on your heart rate monitor. I use a heart rate monitor on a regular basis. Overtime you will be able to guess pretty close what your heart rate is whether training or at rest. However, in the beginning, it takes a while to better understand the measurements and the training philosophy. I blew up during my first marathon, and I believe it was because I went out too hard. Probably a classic first timer mistake. I have made plenty of those. Anyway, someone suggested that I use a heart rate monitor. I started using one and I was surprised to see how my heart rate spiked at the beginning of races. It took me a while using my heart rate monitor to allow me to train in the proper zone, or in my case to build a bigger base. Base training can be challenging because, for me at least, I needed to slow down both biking and running, in order to stay in a certain heart rate range. Those that do not use a heart rate monitor might argue that you can train based on perceived effort. I am too analytical for that. I never race without my heart rate monitor and I have never blown up since my first race. For me, it is a great tool. So be obsessed and use it to help you trainer smarter. I believe it is a great tool. As for the rest, Jess is spot on. Most of what I have read and learned states that you would train 5 - 10 bpm slower on the bike than on the run. For example, if I am base training, I would look to keep my HR below 155 on the run and below 146 on the bike. Also keep in mind that unless you have field tested to determine your max heart rate, you are likely off somewhat in your estimates. Finally, several things can effect your HR (fatigue, hydration, illness, training too hard, medication, etc.).

Thanks for your insight George!

I totally agree that HRM is a great tool and shortly after I started training, I got one. It was actually the second purchase I did after buying my first pair of running shoes. All the reading I have done so far on that matter, was focusing on running. Now, when training in multiple disciplines, I am trying to better understand how it all fits together.

 

 

2008-01-18 10:48 AM
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Subject: RE: jesswah's group - FULL of sexy triathletes!
Ronen,

Not to worry. I am willing to bet that most of the other folks in the class are not in the proper zones either for a variety of reasons. I too have worn my HR monitor to spin class. As hard as I tried, I could never get my HR up to 95% - 100% max. I have tried this several times. All out efforts on a spin bike put my HR at about 165 tops and this is tough to do. I have exceeded this on the road though (real hills cause you to work). On the flip side, I have seen my HR go as high as 175 when running hard.

Not to worry. Just because you are not in the zone that the instructor wants, does not mean that you are not working hard. I must say that I have heard spin instructors say and do a lot of things, however, I have never seen nor heard of one that teaches by dictating HR zones. Rather interesting.
2008-01-18 11:38 AM
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Subject: RE: jesswah's group - FULL of sexy triathletes!
For those of you that train with your HRM on a spin or stationary bike (if it has the hand sensors) - does the HR from your HRM match up with what they bike gives you from the hand sensors?  I keep forgetting to take my HRM to the gym with me!  The numbers those bike give me always seem a bit too high.  Like I can hit 160-165 with less effort than wearing my HRM riding my real bike on the trainer, and I've hit 193 (running max HR from a treadmill test is 199).
2008-01-18 11:49 AM
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Subject: RE: jesswah's group - FULL of sexy triathletes!

Hooray for 3-day weekend!!!  Anyone got anything fun planned?

I'm getting dragged out to look at bridesmaid shoes Monday... for a wedding in July... just to see what styles are out... but not buy... and one girl doesn't wear leather.  Ugh.  I have managed to talk my way out of seeing "27 Dresses" afterwards.  I love my friends, but I think the shoe shopping will just about finish me off!!

Happy Friday!!

2008-01-18 12:21 PM
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Subject: RE: jesswah's group - FULL of sexy triathletes!
Jess,

I find that the hand sensors on the bike and on my treadmill are fairly accurate as compared to my HR monitor. I just do not see real high HR readings while working hard on the spinbike versus my trainer or running hard. And...I have never seen my HR even close to 190.


2008-01-18 1:21 PM
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Subject: RE: jesswah's group - FULL of sexy triathletes!

gatjr33 - 2008-01-18 10:21 AM Jess, I find that the hand sensors on the bike and on my treadmill are fairly accurate as compared to my HR monitor. I just do not see real high HR readings while working hard on the spinbike versus my trainer or running hard. And...I have never seen my HR even close to 190.

I also found that the hand sensors are pretty accurate.

I went over my log (in which I capture all workouts, and all the details collected by my HRM). It is interesting to see that in the gym (whether I run or bike) my Max HR is lower than similar distances when doing the same distance outdoors (temperature, inclines and alike are obviously different).

When outdoor, I got once my HR to 202 which is 110% of my max RH. On some other occasions, I've seen 102-104% as well. Those are pretty rare though. I reached 104% while running my first 1/2 marathon. The 110% was indicated while riding my bicycle in the NYC 5 Borough bike ride (I guess while climbing the Verezano Bridge towards the end of the ride).

2008-01-18 2:04 PM
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Subject: RE: jesswah's group - FULL of sexy triathletes!
jesswah - 2008-01-18 11:49 AM

Hooray for 3-day weekend!!!  Anyone got anything fun planned?

I'm getting dragged out to look at bridesmaid shoes Monday... for a wedding in July... just to see what styles are out... but not buy... and one girl doesn't wear leather.  Ugh.  I have managed to talk my way out of seeing "27 Dresses" afterwards.  I love my friends, but I think the shoe shopping will just about finish me off!!

Happy Friday!! "

After we finish our yearly maintenance on our SCUBA gear and trucks, we are off to drink!! I rarely do it these days, so I am sure it will be a short night for this gator!!  I will suck it up tomorow to meet the goals for the challenge, I promise



Edited by gator22 2008-01-18 2:05 PM
2008-01-18 2:18 PM
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Subject: RE: jesswah's group - FULL of sexy triathletes!

What's up gang? I got ruined on Wednesday night with a stomach flu and I'm still pretty down and out. I'm not looking to good for goals this week. I'm unsure if I'll be able to do anymore then I've already done and I'm only at about 50%. I wish I had something better to report.

Have a good weekend.

2008-01-18 3:17 PM
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Subject: RE: jesswah's group - FULL of sexy triathletes!
...

Edited by Dream Chaser 2008-01-18 3:18 PM
2008-01-18 3:18 PM
in reply to: #1164089

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Subject: RE: jesswah's group - FULL of sexy triathletes!
I'm getting dragged out to look at bridesmaid shoes Monday... for a wedding in July... just to see what styles are out... but not buy... and one girl doesn't wear leather. Ugh. I have managed to talk my way out of seeing "27 Dresses" afterwards. I love my friends, but I think the shoe shopping will just about finish me off!!


I gotta watch the kids tomorrow so the wife can go with her freinds to see 27 Dresses!


2008-01-18 3:35 PM
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Subject: RE: jesswah's group - FULL of sexy triathletes!
Jess/Ronen,

Question for both of you. With HR reading that seem very high, compared to mine, I am curious to see what your resting morning HR would typically be. I would like to hear from others as well. This time of year my morning resting heart rate is generally between 48 and 54. In season, or say by June, I will start to see 42 to 44. I have never seen my max. HR higher than 180.
2008-01-18 3:51 PM
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Subject: RE: jesswah's group - FULL of sexy triathletes!

gatjr33 - 2008-01-18 1:35 PM Jess/Ronen, Question for both of you. With HR reading that seem very high, compared to mine, I am curious to see what your resting morning HR would typically be. I would like to hear from others as well. This time of year my morning resting heart rate is generally between 48 and 54. In season, or say by June, I will start to see 42 to 44. I have never seen my max. HR higher than 180.

My resting HR is between 50 to 54 while sitting down and it is below 50 when I lay down.  

2008-01-18 7:01 PM
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Subject: RE: jesswah's group - FULL of sexy triathletes!

gatjr33 - 2008-01-18 1:35 PM Jess/Ronen, Question for both of you. With HR reading that seem very high, compared to mine, I am curious to see what your resting morning HR would typically be. I would like to hear from others as well. This time of year my morning resting heart rate is generally between 48 and 54. In season, or say by June, I will start to see 42 to 44. I have never seen my max. HR higher than 180.

My max HR is that high b/c I am young - as you get older your max HR tends to decrease.  Oddly enough though, my resting HR has never been low, and I've pretty much given up hope on it.  On a really good day, it may be down to 55.  But usually it's more like 60-65, which given my fitness seems high.  In fact, exercise doesn't seem to affect my RHR.

2008-01-19 10:10 AM
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Subject: RE: jesswah's group - FULL of sexy triathletes!
Workin out when you are hung over sucks.....My blood type is gravy...or alfredo....
2008-01-19 10:15 AM
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Subject: RE: jesswah's group - FULL of sexy triathletes!
Dont start making excuses now for your failed challenge. ha h a


gator22 - 2008-01-19 11:10 AM

Workin out when you are hung over sucks.....My blood type is gravy...or alfredo....


2008-01-19 10:23 AM
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Subject: RE: jesswah's group - FULL of sexy triathletes!
Shouldn't you be somehwhere saving a basement????????? You all know that God invented Police Officers so that fireman would have someone to look up to.........
2008-01-19 10:54 AM
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Subject: RE: jesswah's group - FULL of sexy triathletes!
Police Officers are the ones who failed the Firefighters exam....ha ha

gator22 - 2008-01-19 11:23 AM

Shouldn't you be somehwhere saving a basement????????? You all know that God invented Police Officers so that fireman would have someone to look up to.........
2008-01-19 10:56 AM
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Subject: RE: jesswah's group - FULL of sexy triathletes!
gator22,

Been there, done that!! Not much fun.
2008-01-19 11:26 AM
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Subject: RE: jesswah's group - FULL of sexy triathletes!
I surprised myself yesterday and actually ran 4 miles! I know this does not seem much for most of you vets however it's really big for me as I have not run that much since HS. And I was not all that winded. I'll try for 4 again tomorrow morning. Next week I'll add in a little biking.
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