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Ernesto's group - CLOSED (Page 80)
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 2011-11-30 9:17 PM in reply to: #3921254 |
 Maple Grove, MN |  Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSEDOk Jackie, Here's my real advice. Sorry for the long post. I've run two road races that I've been really happy with: my 10k last Thursday and my half marathon last spring. In both, I followed the same general plan. First, pick the right goal. Your 43'17" 5 miler translates into a 2:00'44'' 1/2 marathon (or a 9:13 pace) according to the McMillan running calculator. So a 2 hour goal (or a 9:10 pace) seems fine with me. Second, and I need to drill, drill, drill this through my head. Except for something like bad weather, DON'T CHANGE THE PLAN. Pick your plan no later than the day before and then follow it. Period. Period. Period. My plan is always to run the first 2/3 or so of the miles at EXACTLY the goal pace and then decide MILE BY MILE how fast to run each mile after that. But the rule is NO THINKING and no changing the plan until those predetermined miles are up. Just crank out miles at as close to exactly the goal pace as you can. For me, that means slowing it down for the first one or two miles relative to what I want to do. After the first one or two miles, it means running the next few FASTER than I want to. Thoughts like "there's no way I'm going to be able to keep this pace up for another x miles, I better slow down" creep in. I have to just shut these thoughts down at this point and maintain the pace. Once the race is half over, there is the temptation to speed up again. Nope. Just keep cranking out miles at the goal pace. Finally at your predetermined mile that you decided to allow yourself to make decisions, make decisions one mile at a time. The main idea is that our I.Q.'s drop by about 50 points during a race. Put your trust in your "smart self" who did the race planning rather than your "dumb self" who is actually running the race. So this was my plan for my 10k. Goal: 7 minute pace or 43:30. First four miles at exactly 7:00. Then after 4 miles in the bag I planned on seeing how I felt and deciding how fast to run the 5th mile only. Then after the 5th mile was in the bag, I planned on deciding on how fast to run the 6th. The last .214 was, according to the plan, to be as fast as possible. Actual: First four miles, 7:01, 6:57, 7:02, 6:55. So I was over the first four miles only 5 seconds ahead of schedule. I decided at the end of the fourth mile to run another 7 minute mile. Actual was 6:55. I decided at the end of the 5th mile to run the 6th at 6:30 since I was feeling good. Actual was 6:38 (couldn't keep up the 6:30). Last fraction was at a 6:13 pace. It felt wonderful knowing that if I just kept the pace that I would meet my goal and anything under it was gravy. For my half the plan was first 8 miles at goal pace. First mile a little slower by the next seven miles at 7:30. Actual: 7:43, 7:32, 7:31, 7:26, 7:31, 7:30, 7:30, 7:32. Pretty much on pace. After 8 miles, I decided to run the next two at 7:20. Actual: 7:24, 7:19. Now with a 5k left (and a big hill) I was just pushing for the finish. 7:17, 7:20 (hill) and 7:14, with the final sprint at a 7:08 pace. In both races, I stuck to the plan. In all my other races I didn't. My advice. Run your first 8 miles at 9:10 (or maybe just a little faster like 9:08 to make up for the fact the mileage on the Garmin will be slightly less than the mile markers). One after another. If you've run .9 miles of that mile and your Garmin says you are too fast, take a little rest by slowing down. Make it a game to hit pace exactly at each mile. After 8 miles reassess. Maybe keep the pace, maybe speed up 10 seconds or so a mile. After 10 miles, you have a 5k left. Either keep the pace or speed up a little. Obviously, toward the end, run as fast as you can. Good luck. |
| 2011-11-30 9:42 PM in reply to: #3921254 |
Master  2238   Dallas | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED scottputnam - 2011-11-30 7:45 PM That's a very good workout Scott, you managed a very steady HR despite the climbs... That type of training will get you GREAT results. Way to go man!Good run for me today...6.4 miles in 51:02. Avg HR 145. Gabe 30 days, 41:02'19" |
| 2011-11-30 9:52 PM in reply to: #3436601 |
Master 2238 Dallas | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED Chris' advice is perfect, I will add some course knowledge to it... The White Rock half is a steady climb until exactly the end of mile 9, the last 4.2 (yes, the course is always long) are a steady downhill very fast if you have saved before. So, I would strive for 9:10 and unleash it at the start of the tenth mile. Here's the link to the course from last year: http://connect.garmin.com/activity/58860076 Also, run the very first one even slower, like a 9:30/mile pace. Do a warm up before the start too. |
| 2011-11-30 10:07 PM in reply to: #3921408 |
Expert 1255 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED Thanks for the advice guys. I really appreciate it. Congratulations Gabe. May you wear the tin foil medal proudly. I am so glad this month only has 30 days! REST time now. BTW, anyone 5'10" or taller interested in a bike frame that was supposed to be Macca's but sent to Desiree Flicker instead? PM me for details. Gabe 30 days, 41:02'19" Ernesto 30 days, 31:49'33" Mark 29 days, 36:18':46" |
| 2011-11-30 10:16 PM in reply to: #3921427 |
| Maple Grove, MN | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED I should add one more thing Jackie. Start at the right place in the pack if you can. Look for the 2 hour pace group (according to the website http://www.runtherock.com/pacers/there is one). You don't have to run with them, but they will most likely start at the right place in the pack. (Actually, running with them is not a bad idea.) |
| 2011-12-01 5:32 AM in reply to: #3921427 |
Veteran 445 Chicago, Illinois | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED Gabe 30 days, 41:02'19" Ernesto 30 days, 31:49'33" Mark 29 days, 36:18':46" |
| 2011-12-01 7:25 AM in reply to: #3921239 |
Master 3022 | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED ernestov - 2011-11-30 7:33 PM I must confess I am not really happy about that one day I took off before the Trot, it looks like a fly in the soup of my perfectly pink training squares in my log, but it was within the rules. ^^This...I had the exact same thought yesterday...gosh that day off sticks out like a sore thumb. Oh well, it was the smart thing to do with an A race the next day. We should all be proud of what we accomplished. I had to convince myself to take the day off this morning...I'm itching to do something. Edited by dangremond 2011-12-01 7:34 AM |
| 2011-12-01 7:33 AM in reply to: #3436601 |
Master 3022 | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED Some more race thoughts - your mile splits on your garmin will be close to the actual distance ran but I would recommend that you go by the mile markers that should be posted throughout the race. The race distance is marked off assuming you run a perfect race (I think that is about 2 feet from the inside curb of every corner, etc.). It does not pick up our weaving around competitors, changing lanes to get water, etc. It all adds up. My plan in my next race is to hit the lap button at every marker to get a more accurate bead on my mile paces.
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| 2011-12-01 7:38 AM in reply to: #3436601 |
| Maple Grove, MN | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED I have to figure out a better schedule which will include a rest day. I've taken four days off in the last 61 days. My old schedule was to work out seven days a week and include 10 workouts (4 runs, 3 bikes, 2 swims, and 1 weight training session). Didn't always do it (especially the weight training part) but that was the plan. Now it seems like too much. I need the rest day to look forward to. Not going to swim today. Might run. (I got a new pair of CW-X insulator compression running tights that I want to check out). But I need a plan to get me to mid January when I will start with the marathon training again. It needs to keep my running base up and build up the bike muscles (maybe the swim can be on hold for now). |
| 2011-12-01 7:46 AM in reply to: #3921671 |
Master 3022 | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED chris2533 - 2011-12-01 7:38 AM I have to figure out a better schedule which will include a rest day. I've taken four days off in the last 61 days. My old schedule was to work out seven days a week and include 10 workouts (4 runs, 3 bikes, 2 swims, and 1 weight training session). Didn't always do it (especially the weight training part) but that was the plan. Now it seems like too much. I need the rest day to look forward to. Not going to swim today. Might run. (I got a new pair of CW-X insulator compression running tights that I want to check out). But I need a plan to get me to mid January when I will start with the marathon training again. It needs to keep my running base up and build up the bike muscles (maybe the swim can be on hold for now). Have you checked out Jorge's Cycling plan...I know I sound like a broken record player - but with a trainer you can really improve your bike power dramatically. My critical power increased about 12.5% over the program When is your marathon? It seems you could use a BarryP type running plan (3:2:1) to keep your base up and do the core days of the Jorge plan. It's listed in the cycling training programs on BT. |
| 2011-12-01 7:55 AM in reply to: #3921678 |
| Maple Grove, MN | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED Which Jorge plan? (Winter Cycling with Heart Rate or Winter Cycling with Power) |
| 2011-12-01 10:03 AM in reply to: #3436601 |
| Maple Grove, MN | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED Hey all. Costco.com is selling the Garmin 405 (with heart strap) for $170 including shipping. |
| 2011-12-01 10:59 AM in reply to: #3921699 |
Master 3022 | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED chris2533 - 2011-12-01 7:55 AM Which Jorge plan? (Winter Cycling with Heart Rate or Winter Cycling with Power) I use the Cycling with Power...my trainer is a Kurt Kinetic and someone built a spreadsheet that goes with the program that has the power table for converting from mph to watts. Depending on what trainer you use there may be similar spreadsheets or you could modify the formula in the spreadsheet to match the power curve for your trainer (I don't know which one you have). If you can do this that would be preferable because I started with HR but noticed that the lag in HR do effort in shorter intervals made it difficult. I knew that for whatever interval I was doing what avg speed equated what wattage I was supposed to be outputtng. I would create a cheatsheet for every workout showing my ranges in speed for each section of the workout. Ideally I would just havea power meter - but that's not in the budget yet. Please feel free to ask me any questions. There should also be a thread here in the forums in the challenge section that specifically goes with the cycling program. |
| 2011-12-01 11:00 AM in reply to: #3921979 |
Master 3022 | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED chris2533 - 2011-12-01 10:03 AM Hey all. Costco.com is selling the Garmin 405 (with heart strap) for $170 including shipping. The 310xt has been onsale at REI and Amazon too....still waiting for the 910xt here (hoping it motivates me to swim more |
| 2011-12-01 11:10 AM in reply to: #3922098 |
Expert 1109 Guatemala | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED dangremond - 2011-12-01 10:00 AM chris2533 - 2011-12-01 10:03 AM Hey all. Costco.com is selling the Garmin 405 (with heart strap) for $170 including shipping. The 310xt has been onsale at REI and Amazon too....still waiting for the 910xt here (hoping it motivates me to swim more Thanks Chris for the info on the 405! I'm in exactly the same boat as Mitch, waiting for the 910xt to be released and getting some user reviews before pulling the trigger. It seems like the 310XT is no longer an option since it went up in price already both at REI and Amazon. Let me know what you decide Mitch. |
| 2011-12-01 11:25 AM in reply to: #3922111 |
Master 3022 | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED sirgab - 2011-12-01 11:10 AM dangremond - 2011-12-01 10:00 AM chris2533 - 2011-12-01 10:03 AM Hey all. Costco.com is selling the Garmin 405 (with heart strap) for $170 including shipping. The 310xt has been onsale at REI and Amazon too....still waiting for the 910xt here (hoping it motivates me to swim more Thanks Chris for the info on the 405! I'm in exactly the same boat as Mitch, waiting for the 910xt to be released and getting some user reviews before pulling the trigger. It seems like the 310XT is no longer an option since it went up in price already both at REI and Amazon. Let me know what you decide Mitch. I'm all-in once it's released, my Admiral has approved the expenditure of funds. I'm comfortable with DC Rainmakers review, but would like to see some additional real world reviews. Maybe give it a few weeks to see what bugs exist. Edited by dangremond 2011-12-01 11:27 AM |
| 2011-12-01 1:00 PM in reply to: #3436601 |
Master 3022 | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED Chris: Midway down the page of this thread is a spreadsheet that you can download to do the mph / watts calculation. It claims that the Cycleops2 shares the same power curve. Also midway down the page is a discussion on mixing the Barry P (3:2:1) run program with the Jorge cycling program. I haven't gotten to Jorge's response yet but wanted to point it out to you. http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=273109&start=141 -Mitch |
| 2011-12-01 6:43 PM in reply to: #3436601 |
Master 2238 Dallas | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED Well, deja vu at work. Issues again, but luckily after the challenge is over. Congratulations Gabe on winning the challenge. I'll make your medal soon and you will probably get it right before IM Texas.
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| 2011-12-01 9:47 PM in reply to: #3436601 |
Regular 200 Colorado Springs | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED Thanks Ernesto. I think running near my MAF for the last couple of months is starting to pay off. Today's wind chill factor when I got home was 7 deg F, so instead of a run I opted for an indoor bike ride on the trainer. 18.8 miles in 1:15:00. Hopefully the roads will be clear of snow tomorow so I can run. Good advice to get a pace group for a race. I did that in the San Diego marathon this year and it worked well. Well, at least until I fell apart at 23 miles.
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| 2011-12-01 9:54 PM in reply to: #3436601 |
Regular 200 Colorado Springs | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED I'm pretty much addicted to going by mile splits on my garmin in races. I just set up the auto lap for every mile. I ran a 10k a few years ago that had one mile marker only 0.85 miles from the previous one. I freaked out thinking I was going way too fast (didn't have a garmin then) so I slowed down and was disappointed that my next mile was so slow. You never know when some doofus is going to misplace a mile marker so I use my garmin now to do the trust but verify routine at races. |
| 2011-12-01 9:55 PM in reply to: #3436601 |
Regular 200 Colorado Springs | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED BTW...congrats to Gabe for winning the November challenge!
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| 2011-12-02 11:02 AM in reply to: #3436601 |
Master 2238 Dallas | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED Mitch and everybody, I got an email from active.com offering all Garmin and Timex GPS for 20% off, except the new 910XT. The website is www.heartmonitors.com and the discount code is ACT20 Edited by ernestov 2011-12-02 11:26 AM |
| 2011-12-02 1:22 PM in reply to: #3923539 |
Master 3022 | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED ernestov - 2011-12-02 11:02 AM Mitch and everybody, I got an email from active.com offering all Garmin and Timex GPS for 20% off, except the new 910XT. The website is www.heartmonitors.com and the discount code is ACT20 Thank you! Looks like the 910xt will be delayed a bit...REI isn't showing it on their site at the moment. I will likely wait as my Polar w/footpod more than suffices for running indoor on the dreadmill. Looking forward to setting my bike up with Garmin speed/cadence sensor but that will wait. Also - another neat feature on the 910xt is altitude by barometric pressure (supposedly a bit more accurate (except when it isn't). |
| 2011-12-02 1:24 PM in reply to: #3436601 |
Master 3022 | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED Chris: I'm planning to formally start the Jorge cycling plan on Monday beginning with the 2 week prep period - if you plan on doing as well we can commiserate with one another...you will really learn to love the pain. Anyone else care to join in the fun? -Mitch |
| 2011-12-02 1:28 PM in reply to: #3923805 |
| Maple Grove, MN | Subject: RE: Ernesto's group - CLOSED dangremond - 2011-12-02 1:24 PM Chris: I'm planning to formally start the Jorge cycling plan on Monday beginning with the 2 week prep period - if you plan on doing as well we can commiserate with one another...you will really learn to love the pain. Anyone else care to join in the fun? -Mitch Mitch, I think I will pass. Sorry. I am going to stick with going to my power cycling class at least every other week and then working out on the drainer on my own, making things up as I go along. (Today I did 1 minute at low gear, 1 minute up a gear, and then 1 minute up another gear for 30 minutes). Again, the problem is that these programs always seem to forget the other two activities. But I will be on the drainer 3 times a week until I start training for my spring marathon, and at least 2 times a week during marathon training. Edited by chris2533 2011-12-02 1:30 PM |
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