kaburns1214 Mentor Group - CLOSED (Page 81)

I've never needed to eat anything on the run while training (up to 12 miles) and finished fine - almost all these runs with only water.  I guess I can't imagine changing what I've been doing for the last 6 months.  You know? 

How many gels would I have to consume during a training run to simulate the race run?  Would I be faster if I consumed them?  Would I have more energy afterwards?  I could give it a shot.  I want to consume what is on the course, as I don't want to wear a fuel belt or anything for the race.  I am a very, very thirsty runner, and I drink at least 48 oz. on my long runs, so I prefer to drink some of the gatorade on the course.    

I just got yelled at for this last week.  You need to practice race day nutrition when you train otherwise you're setting yourself up for GI problems on race day.  Generally its about 200 calories / hour on the run.  You can consume calories through sports drink, gels or a combination of both.  On the run I take a Gel every 4-5 miles and sports drin kwhereever I can get it. 

By comsuming calories when you run you'll also improve the quality of your run.  You should be able to sustain a given pace longer and your muscles should recover better afterwards (because your body used fuel you put it rather than catabolizing muscle).  An average person only has about 90 minutes worth of fuel (glycogen) stored in their bodies (no matter how much you carbo load -- this is a whole nother topic -- carbo loading is really not necessary) so if you don't fuel your body and you're training or racing longer than 90 minutes, you start to break down tissue in order to keep going.

Here's a good blog post on the issue:  http://dmacleantri.blogspot.com/2011/02/do-you-really-need-to-consume-energy.html

Here's the text of the post:

Short answer:  No, but with a HUGE caveat.
Long answer:  Here we go...
         Carbohydrates are needed as fuel for muscle contraction.  A typical human can store enough muscle glycogen for roughly 60-90 minutes of strenuous exercise.  After that, your stores of readily available glycogen will be very low.  You've gotta either seriously back off the intensity, or run a serious risk of bonking (no longer enough blood sugar for the brain - dizziness, jelly legs, and disorientation are common symptoms of a bonk).  How do we combat this?  By consuming carbohydrates during exercise.  There are countless choices for your CHO source, but time and again, I advise my athletes to consume gels, specific sports drinks, bars, and blocks.  (disclaimer: I always roll with Gu products, but I'm not dumb or that much of a sellout... I do recognize that other companies out there are also making some good products, specifically Clif and Power Bar).
         So what do we want in a CHO source?  Multiple studies have shown that a mixture of sugar types is the way to go.  A glucose:fructose blend has been shown to promote higher carbohydrate oxidation rates than glucose alone.  The blend, when compared with pure glucose, is associated with improved performace, increased fluid delivery and lower probability of GI distress (Jeukendrup).  O'Brien et. al., showed that an approximately equal mixture of fructose:maltodextrin had similar benefits when compared to a blend that was predominantly maltodextrin.
        Why the benefits?  It is suspected that different sugars are going through different transport pathways, and therefore, the sugars are more readily digested and delivered to muscles.  Consuming only one type of sugar can cause a specific transport pathway to get "backed up", and thus CHO delivery hits a bottleneck, and your performance suffers.
         This is where the gels/drinks/bars/blocks come into play.  Surprise (surprise!) but some of the people at sports nutrition companies actually know what they're doing and they want to produce good products.  It's easy to find the carbohydrate blends in sports nutrition products - just look at the ingredients and nutrition info.  Any reasonable product will tell you exactly what carbohydrates they use.  Some will go so far as to tell you the ratio, and some don't.  If no ratios are listed, then just look at the nutrition label.  It should have "Carbohydrates" and "Sugars" listed.  All of the sugars will likely be some combination of glucose and fructose.  Any remaining carbohydrates will likely by maltodextrin (i.e. if there are 25 g of carbohydrates, and 10 g of sugars, then that means there are 15g of maltodextrin).
         I advise all of my athletes to use these specially made products (although I generally only recommend Gu, Power Bar, or Clif) because these companies produce carbohydrate blends in desirable ratios, have different caffeine levels in various products (so you can closely control caffeine intake), and they come in packaging that is convenient to carry and use during exercise.
         Could you use other carbohydrate sources (bread, bananas, etc...)?  Sure, they're cheaper, and in some cases, they can work well.  But you have to be very careful.  "Normal" foods will often come along with excess nutrients that may hinder performance (fiber, fats, excess protein, etc...), and you will have to put some effort into getting a good carbohydrate blend.  Something like white bread with jelly on it comes to mind as a decent CHO source, but really... who wants to carry a bunch of bread and jelly with them while running?  Not me.  I'll keep using my gels and Gu Chomps, thanks.  (also- where are you getting your sodium from if you're relying on bread/jelly/bananas/etc...?)
     The most important thing to remember is, when in intense activities, you only want to give your body exactly what it needs at that moment.  You can worry about vitamins, protein, fats, etc.. when you're sitting around eating dinner. 

References:
1) Jeukendrup, AE "Carbohydrate and Exercise Performance:  the role of multiple transportable carbohydrates"
2) O'Brien WJ, Rowlands DS "Fructose-maltodextrin ratio in a carbohydrate-electrolyte solution differentially affects exogenous carbohydrate oxidation rate, gut comfort, and performance"

notice his sponsors

BTW, Bob Babbit, publisher of Competitor Magazine and one the fathers of multisport, competed in the early Hawaii Ironman using bread and jelly as his fuel source. 

Actually its a little more - probably closer to 3 hours (and I've got zero scientific proof for this)

I hear you.  Its been working so far, so why mess with it.  Try it on a long run and see how it works.  You might feel better for the second half of the run or you might not.

Generally, I try for one gel every 45 minutes with the last one at about 1 hour to go.   And on my longer runs I usually take in about 24 oz. of water/gatorade, mostly because my fuel belt holds 4 6 oz. bottles, and maybe 2 gels.  For my marathon I'm planning on 4 gels, 24 oz. of gatorade and whatever water I can get on course.

Sorry you had to bail on the HIM.  Will you be doing some sprints or olys instead?  Or will you just focus on running?

Thank you all for the nutrition feedback.  I think I'm going to experiment with it during the next few long runs.  I'm sure I'll find something that works for me. 

Up early this morning for an easy trainer ride, and then I have a 5k to run later.  I'm getting really excited for my swimming workshop (Sat. & Sunday).  I'll try to upload some of the video - before & after.  I'm dying to know where I can improve my stroke.  I know that I've definitely improved my 100 time over the last few months - 1:40 down to 1:30 when I'm pushing myself.  It's nice to see hard work pay off

I am already signed up for 3 shorter tris, but my focus will be on running - it is my weakness so it could use alot of work.  So any bike and swim will be cross trainig for me as my #1 goal now is the Chicago marathon!

I just didn't want to training half on all aspects, so I just decided on running . . . plus, I am enjoying that the most right now.

Thanks for the support

Just for fun I signed up for our annual LITH (Lake in the Hills . . . note Hills) run with my nephew this weekend.  (10 miler on Saturday, so will take this race slow)

I will do the 5k  and my nephew Howie will do the kids 1/2 mile.  He only agreed because he gets a medal

Are you following a plan for Chicago?  I know Jeff has had good luck with the Hal Higdeon running plans.

One more thought on fueling from http://www.qt2systems.com/tips/:

4) Never, Ever, Bonk - Fuel properly during training. Never step out the door without at least 2 gels (or 1 bar) more than what you believe is required for your workout (at least 1/3 your body weight in CHO per hour). The physiologic impact of a bonk is so great that you just can't afford to let it happen. There are many, many things that you don't have control over in triathlon. This is NOT one of those. Take advantage of that fact.

Right now my training motivation is as up and down as our weather. Yesterday sunny and I had a great swim and run. Today rain truning to snow that is supposed to last through SAturday and here I sit reading posts on BT instead of doing anything. I still have to stand outside in this and shoot golf and softball today in the freeking cold wind if it doesn't start raining too much. Guess I'll drag the bike back to the drainer just to do something

You can tell the weather is getting better - there's less posting and (hopefully) more training.

Yesterday's run was great - shorts, ball cap and a long and a short sleeved shirt.  Haven't been that undressed in ages it seems.  Today, back to the tights, jacket and watch cap.  Still a really nice run.

My training plan has me biking - so I better get with the program and dust off the bike.

Higdon's plans are good  to get you to the finish line.  If you want to meet a time, I would add in at least 2-4 additional base weeks and at least 1-2 additional runs of 22+ miles.  Aerobicly i was ready for the mary, but i was not from a muscular endurace stand point. 

to add to what kelly said, follow routes where you have rest stops and bring a few bucks.  if you need supplies you can always stop.  On a super hot day you may go through 30-40 oz of water (about the max you can carry without a camel back) in 90 minutes.  

Also, carry a cell phone.  I was 6 miles into a 18 miler last year - on the hotest day of the year I left my house at 1030 to meet my family at the pool [can you say dumb?] - when i realized how stupid i was.  I called my wife and she rescued me. 

I thought this morning would be like yesterday -- I was wrong and froze.  My hands are still cold 8 hours later.

what happened?? 

We are archived now?

I have never tried them, but I know people who love love love them. They kind of look like candy.

I bought a few a few weeks ago. They taste pretty good, but a little dryer than I expected. 

I'll keep posting if y'all do. 

BTW got a FB message from my LBS that they had a ton extra of those waffles ordered for some reason and are offloading them cheap.  May grab some for the back to back 90 mile ride next weekend.