Newbz' Spring mentor group- FULL!!!! (Page 9)

Hope you feel better soon!


On the pacing front, i'm not 100% familure with friels zones, however, using another set of zones:

Z1: recovery/very very easy
Z2: is endurance pace/mod effort, cruise pace if you will
Z3: tempo work, about 80-85% of hour long race pace on the bike/run
Z4: threshold, hardest pace you can hold for an hour cycling, 40-50min running (10k running pace ish
Z5: vo2 max/VERY hard short, few min long intervals.

For HIM racing this is going to vary a little based on the type of shape you are in for the various sports. the swim is normally taken close to as hard as you can for the distance without coming out dead, normally fairly hard compared to the other two. the bike is going to be somewhere in the Z3 range, or upper end of tempo, 80-85% of threshold. if you go much over that you are going to pay on the run big time. the more bike training you have/the faster your time/the less time you are out there the more you can bump that up a bit. the run, you come off the bike, normally take a mile or so to get into it, and then sit right on the upper end of Z3 for the most part/into Z4 near the last few miles if you can.

most people push the bike too hard and end up with a MUCH slower run than they are capable of however.

for IM its going to be lower but i dont know off the top of my head, i think the bike more like 75ish % of threshold,

On the same topic:

The typical training program calls for 2x per discipline each week.  I know some will have you doing a week leg 3x but generally speaking it seems like most have you doing each 2x.  How should those two (or maybe 3) be broken up regarding LSD, pace, tempo, etc?  or maybe I should be asking regarding the zones that you mention above?

I am specifically asking for an in season routine where a person will be racing at least every 6 weeks but nothing more than an Oly. 

if you are only doing two of each sport per week, you have a bit more flexability to push the workouts,

that said running hard before you have a running base is almost ALWAYS a bad idea.

biking wise you can push it more, siwmming you should be all the time.



the more you train the more balancing act you need.

for example, early in the year when i am not able to get out a lot, i bike roughly 3 times per week, and all are HARD. running is still easier, siwmming is all hard save warm up and cool down.

now that i am outside full time, and not in taper weeks, i am riding 5-6 times a week, running the same, and i will have two tempo rides, two harder rides, one longer ride

running 4 easy, 1 tempo, 1 hill day.

Thanks.  That's helpful.  I was going too easy on the bike until my HIM where I went too hard.  That's what got me thinking more carefully about pacing.

The zones as you define them sound pretty similar to Friel's zones.  (He breaks up Z5 into three 'sub-zones', but these subdivisions aren't relevant for racing -- at least not at my level...)

yep, the Zn5 stuff is broken up that way by most people but for most of us the subsets are not useful enough on their own.

you can deff train for logner stuff never going that hard if you do enough, but most people cook the bike on the half distance and then have a HORRIBLE run.

FWIW your half IM run should be no more than 3-6 min slower than your open time if all else is paced well.

yep, heading out to rockman and then on to boulder from there for the summer:-)

will be back in ohio late aug through TTT in the spring, then boulder for good.


time goals are laid out for what would be a perfect, good, and ok day, (4:35, :45, and :55), most of my stuff is packed. gonna be a long next few days:-)

I am heading out to rockford IL this afternoon, staying with the race dir, working there tomorrow, race on sunday, then hanging out with him and two other pros staying around for a few days to ride, then boulder for a summer of training!

David, have a wonderful race.... I look forward to hearing about it.

haha so in my ever changing last min plans i am now leaving early tomorrow morning, too much stuff to get done here;-)


Is anyone else racing this weekend?

Chris: i cant wait to get out there, the weather and training have me very excited.
plans right now are to be back in ohio aug 20th or so, racing toyota for sure, maybe one more if i can,

also tossing around the idea of either doing the full or half mary at columbus this fall if it doesnt conflict with coaching.

Hey David another race !!!! You are very active !!!! I don't know how you do all coaching,train,races. I would like to more time to train,but my job is consuming all my free time.When I come back to my house just I want to spend some time with my wife and my son. I'm trying to grow up my company that's why in the last 3 weeks I can't train like before.

Good luck to every one racing this weekend and see you on Monday with the race reports !!! 

haha this is a down year as far as racing goes for me;-)


Its the same as anything really though, its just i choose to put my time and effort into this, whereas many of you have families, full time jobs, etc.

right now i have a g/f, and a part time seasonal job, and very little money. on one side of things its a blast, i am getting to travel and pretty much train full time, but on the flip side if something goes wrong i am left scrambling to try and pull enough cash together to fix it. it wont last forever, but right now i would not trade this for anything.

David - Have fun living the dream.  We all hope to do it, but rarely get to actually live it.  CO is a great place, and if my wife didn't love the Arizona heat, I would be there in a heart beat!

So...you're saying that my HIM run split being over 30 minutes slower than my 1/2mary PR is a problem? 

Still, although my pacing was obviously way off, I would argue that I learned more by going too fast than I would have learned by going too slow, and since the point of that race was to learn, I'm not that upset...

I'm off to the beach for a week of biking on totally flat ground, running in 90+ degree heat, and OWS in the ocean.  Have fun this week, everyone.   David, and others who are racing, have a great time at your races.

full report will be up tomorrow when i have my own computer back,

but race went well, given lack of current training , am very happy, 4:45 for the time on a HILLY course and 19th overall made it a PR by 24 min and by far my best long course race to date.


On the pacing for HIM, i agree, you learned a lot more going to hard, now you have a better idea of what you can handle;-)

race report up:

http://beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid...




How is everyones training looking?

Okay.... so I'm still trying to wrap my arms around this...

So lets say I am going to run 3x per week.  Based on what you have said I should do 2 easy and a tempo run?  And you would define "easy" as a zone 2 run or a pace where I could easily hold a conversation? does that sound right?

I understand the swim.... and the bike.... but I'm still wrestling with the run.

Great race report David !!!! 19th overall is pretty good number !!! Congratulations!!! I hope you feel better and relaxed in the next couple of days !!!

Edited by ampryler 2009-06-08 6:38 PM

yes if you are going to run 3 times that is what i would do, or even 3 easier runs. the issues with running harder on that type of volume is that running harder really wont do anymore, or very little more than simply running a bit more, and without the added injury risks.

as for easy pace, yes zone 2, being able to talk, etc.

Thanks for the help.... sorry to belabor the idea.... I have always just sort of run hard for certain time or distance... never really learned about the benefits of zone training.  Trying to get my arms around it

I kind of got out of things when finals kicked in at school and then I hit racing pretty hard but i'm back now and ready to post. Quick update, since my last check-in(beginning of may after my first tri) I've done another sprint tri, a 10k and I did an olympic tri on each of these last two weekends.

Right now i'm working on putting together a weights session and  a plyometrics session to compliment my short course training. Any suggestions?

Edited by Noah_E 2009-06-11 2:59 AM

if you are going to be doing weights in season, i would pay close attention to what you are looking to get out of it (ie injury prevention, putting on muscle, etc.) and put together a carful match for that.

personally i like to lift in the winter when my total volume is a bit lower, and work mainly on places i have had injuries or imablances in the past (hips, knees, left shoulder, etc), and then once i start training full time i drop off the weights in favor of more swim/bike/run.

I'm going to say this right off the bat, and then explain myself: WEIGHTS WILL NOT MAKE YOU FASTER- ok, what i mean by this is that assuming you are training properly, you will see no time diff lifting or not lifting (assuming your not the frailest person on the planet).

in cycling, putting out around 400 watts (an output i can maintain for almost a min maybe), is about the same as leg pressing 50 pounds, thats almost nothing, at my sprint distance race pace, its more like pounds. running its even less than that.

that being said, lifting can be VERY helpful if used right. it is great for injury prevention, balancing things, getting in a workout for body parts that dont see the work through the s/b/r training, and its fun.

taylor the workouts to fit your needs and you';ll be much healthier overall.

things that are going to do more good: any type of body weight, situps, pushups, dips, etc. single leg presses with lower weights (8-14reps), anything for the hips/lateral movement, any type of ab work, etc.