jsiegs and slornow's Train Hard and Have Fun group - CLOSED for Training (Page 9)
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() chugger99 - 2011-05-02 4:15 PM I was on a long ride today (60 miles) and it got me thinking about nutrition aswell. What do people use on rides? What is hamme perpeteum and heed?
James
cbrookhart - 2011-05-02 9:56 PM Can we go back to the nutrition talk for a minute? I got some Hamme Perpetuem today. I normally use HEED, I figured for my race I'd try the Perpetuem so I am going to try it out during a few training rides. Anyone tried them both? Did you notice a difference? I also saw a thread on Triathlon Talk about taking Imodium before a race. I have stomach issues during the run and I've thought about taking something but I'm worried about it being safe. I realize you are not doctors (well, i'm assuming you're not, maybe you are.) so i'm not looking for medical advice, just wondering if anyone has tried it and how it worked out for you.
That should say Hammer, not Hamme. Oops. Hammer is the maker of Heed and Perpetuem. They are sports drinks. Perpetuem is used for longer training and races. At least that's what the package says. Right now I'm trying out different things, trying to find out what works best. |
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New user ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Great job, Matt! Anyone heard of Natural Running? I am reading it now and thinking about the new Newton shoes. My running seems to be my real weak point right now and it's very frustrating! |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Jumping in on the weight training thread here. Having been active in the weight group for the past 14 years I can say that I'm a well rounded person. I personally perfer to use free weights, low weight high reps. About six months ago I was having a lot of problems with shin splits. It got so bad that I would actually hit the ground running and not be able to get back up. Not a good thing considering that I run in a park that has no vehicle access to the running trails. When I saw a sports medicine doctor he comented on how as a runner how flexable I was and how well develped my muscles were over my entire body. After talking with him he told me that my years in the weight room saved me from serious injury. Now I'm not saying that you HAVE to use free weights the way I do, it's just what works for me. The point is that as people who do a lot of cardio it is in our best intrest to find time to be in the weight room several times a week. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Today was my first time doing a road bike to running transition. Before I had rode on the stationay expercise bike in the gym then jumed on the treadmill and ran without a problem. Today was much different. After a six mile ride with rests between I was feeling alright. I headed out to my run and was soon very frustrated. I just could not seem to get a good cadance going with my feet. Have you every seen people 'running' to get somewhere where it is more like a speed walk but in running form? That is what I was doing. The farther I ran the more frustrated I got. To make matters worse no matter how hard I tried to get a longer and more fluent stride the shorter my stride got. By the time I got to my 3/4 mile mark I had shin splints like no other and had to limp the rest of the way back to my car. What's going on here? How can I do so well in the gym but so so poorly on the road? This is frustrating as all get. I have my first sprint Tri in July and after today I am severly discouraged feelign that I will never make it out of the T2 area. Any help or suggestions? Beth |
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Regular ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() @Deb- Check out Matt Dixon's running drills videos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2L-w5fa2OM, thats just the intro but the connected videos that go along with it from Fitness Anywhere are great. I would focus more on correct form before going to a neutral shoe like Newtons or the big fad in running right now 'Vibram 5 Finger shoes'. The drills that Matt Dixon shows I will use pretty much every day before I go run as my warm up and sometimes will do them after a run as well. Video #1 on body position and arm carry have been the most important things for me to focus on and I have felt my cadence and foot strike position really improve in the past couple months. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Hubbie - 2011-05-02 11:33 PM Today was my first time doing a road bike to running transition. Before I had rode on the stationay expercise bike in the gym then jumed on the treadmill and ran without a problem. Today was much different. After a six mile ride with rests between I was feeling alright. I headed out to my run and was soon very frustrated. I just could not seem to get a good cadance going with my feet. Have you every seen people 'running' to get somewhere where it is more like a speed walk but in running form? That is what I was doing. The farther I ran the more frustrated I got. To make matters worse no matter how hard I tried to get a longer and more fluent stride the shorter my stride got. By the time I got to my 3/4 mile mark I had shin splints like no other and had to limp the rest of the way back to my car. What's going on here? How can I do so well in the gym but so so poorly on the road? This is frustrating as all get. I have my first sprint Tri in July and after today I am severly discouraged feelign that I will never make it out of the T2 area. Any help or suggestions? Beth It is hard to go from the bike to run. Your legs feel heavy and it's hard to get into a goove. I think this is why bike/runs are called bricks. That's how your legs feel when you try to run. Just keep doing it. You have plenty of time. I'm not sure about the shin splints. That doesn't seem normal, at least in my experience. If you do have shin splints, ignore my advice above, and stop running. If your shins are just hurting a little, keep practicing. Best of luck! |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Hubbie - 2011-05-03 12:33 AM Today was my first time doing a road bike to running transition. Before I had rode on the stationay expercise bike in the gym then jumed on the treadmill and ran without a problem. Today was much different. After a six mile ride with rests between I was feeling alright. I headed out to my run and was soon very frustrated. I just could not seem to get a good cadance going with my feet. Have you every seen people 'running' to get somewhere where it is more like a speed walk but in running form? That is what I was doing. The farther I ran the more frustrated I got. To make matters worse no matter how hard I tried to get a longer and more fluent stride the shorter my stride got. By the time I got to my 3/4 mile mark I had shin splints like no other and had to limp the rest of the way back to my car. What's going on here? How can I do so well in the gym but so so poorly on the road? This is frustrating as all get. I have my first sprint Tri in July and after today I am severly discouraged feelign that I will never make it out of the T2 area. Any help or suggestions? Beth Firstly, don't worry, you're definitely not alone in what happened to you. 4 years in and it still happens to me when I don't execute my bike correctly.
I'm gonna throw out a guess here, but that's all it is, a guess. I doubt you were working as hard on the stationary bike as you were on the road bike. That's just a function of the inside vs outside differences. Your RPE feels higher inside, so you can be working less but feel like your working the same. I know this sounds counterintuitive, but it really is "harder" to work at the same level inside, due to the heat loading and mental aspects (yes, being bored inside can really affect motivation, while having fun, going fast can really boost it). In the world of Power, where a watt is a watt no matter where you are, people generally put out somewhere around 5% fewer watts indoors when they test themselves. Now, I'm guessing your intensity level (even if it didn't feel it) was higher outside. Therefor, your run suffered because your body wasn't ready for that level of effort before running. The answer? You probably guessed it - ride a LOT more! The fresher you can come off the bike, the better your run will be. Obviously, I could be wrong here (perhaps your effort on the stationary was really hard), but if you keep using the stationary, make an effort to go a little harder. Some good "tricks" to do this inside are to dive into some intervals - the hard work, rest, hard work, rest, etc. The shorter sections help break up the monotiny of steady riding (save that for outside). |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Nice race Matt! Sounds like a fun race from reading your report. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() djb45 - 2011-05-02 11:30 PM Great job, Matt! Anyone heard of Natural Running? I am reading it now and thinking about the new Newton shoes. My running seems to be my real weak point right now and it's very frustrating!
I haven't read the book but the barefoot running craze is really interesting (to the point that I bought some Vibrams on a whim). It certainly makes sense to me, run the way our bodies evolved to run. But on the other hand, if it ain't broke, don't fix it (for me at least). Unfortunately, I haven't been able to ease into it slowly enough to start using the Vibrams running (they're still comfortable to wear otherwise). Just don't expect the barefoot experience to make you faster in itself - the purpose/gains seem to be mostly from injury prevention (although, if you can run more without injury...you may just get a little faster). |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() OK - I know we've got some topics on the table to discuss. The one's I'm remembering are - Tri gear - clothing, aero "stuff" and other gear - HR training
I'm going to post some stuff I found about exercise physiology and HR training to start that discussion and if you have questions or want to add please do.
I'm not sure where to start with the gear discussion, so please just fire away with some questions and hopefully as a group we can all give some good answers/advice. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I really like this article : http://physfarm.com/new/?page_id=511
It discusses the idea of "threshold" which is central to all HR, power, RPE or pace training and using zones. The concept of "critical power" (which can also be pace or HR) is actually what most people mean when they talk about Lactate Threshold (e.g. when you do a LT field test with a HR monitor to determine your training zones).
For additional background: http://www.physfarm.com/inside/articles_planetx.html, check out any of these articles, but Exercise Physiology for Beginners and Training Zones and Specificity are really good for getting into training with a device that measures intensity (e.g. HR, gps watch for pace, powermeter etc). |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() The "minimalist running" concept seems to be very popular. As with anything you should work into it gradually. You are much more likely to get injured if you go from a stability shoe to vibrams. Most of the folks at the running stores recommend getting a pair of "neutral" running shoes and gradually working those into your scheduled runs. A couple of miles here and there to help with the transition. Then do the same with an even more "natural" shoe. Almost all of the major companies are making more minimalist shoes so there are lots of choices. May take a little time to make the switch but staying injury free is a priority. I have a pair of the Vibrams and have used them for doing strides after a workout. I like them but seem to have trouble getting them on ![]() Newtons-I started using a Newton racing shoe about a year ago and liked it. Then I bought the more heavy duty trainer and did not like it nearly as much. Again, transition into something like this gradually. The change in gait can be particularly hard on your calves. Not currently using the Newtons.....a little expensive....and I feel that a more midfoot strike is something I should be able to achieve with most any shoe with sufficient focus on technique...Your mileage may vary ![]() Randy |
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New user ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Matt, Thanks for this! I looked at this morning and will incorporate drills in my next run! I really appreciate how we can all bring something different to the table, as well as new ideas and sources of info. Really looking forward to making progress.... |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Joe-there was also a mention about bike trainers/rollers. Might be worth discussing as well. Not sure how many folks have one or are looking at buying one but I know both you and I use them alot as a part of our training. Randy |
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New user ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Thanks, Randy! I'll take things slowly. Trying to figure out why my knees are acting up suddenly and willing to try whatever to correct form, etc. |
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New user ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I would like to know more about trainers...vs. spin classes? |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() OK-I'll give the bike trainer subject a shot. You have your typical stationary bike like at the gym, spin bikes, resistance trainers which typically provide resistance through a magnet or fan, rollers and computrainers (which I know nothing about). Of the people that do alot of riding I think most will use resistance trainers, computrainer or rollers of some sort. I know that Joe uses a Kurt Kinetic Rock & Roll Road Machine. This is a really nice resistance trainer and Kurt Kinetic is usually a recommended brand. For these types of trainers you use the rear wheel skewer to attach you rear wheel/bike to the trainer. The rear wheel typically rests on a cylinder or another surface that spins when the rear wheel spins. Resistance is provided through a magnet or fan. Some of these trainers will have meters that show watts and other info. Some of the really basic trainers can be bought for $100-200. Depending on the resistance method they can be loud-typically with the fan resistance.......Help me out here joe or anyone else as I have never owned a resistance trainer. Rollers-these can be very difficult to ride. Basically you are riding your bike on a set of static cylinders. Are claimed to be a great way to 1) bust your A$$ and 2) improve your bike handling skills. Basic sets are around $100-200 with "Kreitler" being one of the better reviewed brands coming in at $300-500. Some offer a resistance unit but as I understand it the level of resistance can also depend on the size of the roller cylinder. There is typically a big learning curve..most recommend riding in a doorway so you have something to grab onto on both sides. E-motion Rollers-this is what I have. It is a variation of the roller but the rollers are mounted to a frame that "floats" within an outer frame. Much easier to learn than traditional rollers. It took me maybe 15 minutes to get comfortable on them and another 15 to feel good in an aero position. Mine has a magnet resistance unit with numerous settings. They are more pricey than trainers and regular rollers coming in at $850...they were maybe $695 when I bought mine 2 years ago. Why did I go with these? I liked being able to simply pick up my bike off the rollers and head out on the road. Some trainers are very hard on tires and folks will use a special trainer tire to keep from wearing out their good tires. If you are curious you can see the e-motion rollers at www.insideride.com. Not sure exactly but I probably have 5000+ miles on mine so far. Stationary bikes/spin bikes-I think these have their benefits but it is all what you put into it. I use them if I am traveling and want to get a workout in but still prefer my set up at home. I know there is a newer trainer out there. Lemond something or another that just came out within the last 6 months that I have heard good things about. Computrainers allow you to simulate rides through a computer or on you TV. I know very little about these. The benefit of having a trainer/rollers etc is that you can get a workout in regardless of outside conditions. I have mine set up in the garage with 2 big fans. I have it next to a workbench where I keep my water. I watch dvds on a small player while working out and have a Netflix subscription to keep it interesting. Hope this helps. Others that know more or have different experience please chime in. Randy Edited by slornow 2011-05-03 10:43 AM |
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Member![]() ![]() | ![]() Good Morning All! Another chilly, windy spring day in central Iowa - the weather is preparing me well if the race is chilly and windy! But i hope it's not this cold (high 40s) for Elkhart Lake WI in June. Workout question specific to my BT program "Basic Sprint to Olympic Triathlon Bridge Training Plan - 12 Week": 6 wks from race, today's workout calls for 1:20 bike and 1:00 run. Am i supposed to do this as a brick? No mention of brick in workout notes, but this seems pretty intense for a _brick_. (on the other hand, this IS a build week). my schedule allows the time: Bike 1h 20m Big Gear Power 80 WU: 15' MS: 12 x 1' - (30" fast, 30" sprint) 3-5' FULL recovery. Start out sitting and pedal very hard getting up to race speed, once you hit 30', STAND UP and REALLY push hard on the sprint for another 30'. This will hurt. A lot. It's supposed too! CD: 15' Run 1h 00m Raise LT Race Specific 60 10 minute warm-up, start out slowly and build to Zone 2, after 7 minutes do 4x30 second accelerations building each repeat faster. Take at least 1:00 between each to recover and prepare yourself for the next acceleration. Main set is 3 x 5 minutes at LT, #1 should have you ending your 5 minutes at just about mid-Zone 3. #2 should see you finishing right at Zone 4a. #3 should have you finishing right at Z5. Between repeats you will get a rest interval of 3 minutes. The 3 minutes should be easy enough to allow your heart rate to come back down to Zone 2. Thanks for your thoughts-- Considering the timing of my question, i will fuel well, do it as a brick, and see what happens! Glenn |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Glenn-given the intensity of each of the workouts I would doubt that it is meant to be be done as a brick. I have not really reviewed the plan so just my thoughts. Usually with a brick (classic bike then run) the run is pretty easy and done to get your legs accustom to the feel of running off the bike. Randy |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() slornow - 2011-05-03 11:02 AM OK-I'll give the bike trainer subject a shot. You have your typical stationary bike like at the gym, spin bikes, resistance trainers which typically provide resistance through a magnet or fan, rollers and computrainers (which I know nothing about). Of the people that do alot of riding I think most will use resistance trainers, computrainer or rollers of some sort. I know that Joe uses a Kurt Kinetic Rock & Roll Road Machine. This is a really nice resistance trainer and Kurt Kinetic is usually a recommended brand. For these types of trainers you use the rear wheel skewer to attach you rear wheel/bike to the trainer. The rear wheel typically rests on a cylinder or another surface that spins when the rear wheel spins. Resistance is provide through a magnet or fan. Some of these trainers will have meters that show watts and other info. Some of the really basic trainers can be bought for $100-200. Depending on the resistance method they can be loud-typically with the fan resistance.......Help me out here joe or anyone else as I have never owned a resistance trainer. Rollers-these can be very difficult to ride. Basically you are riding your bike on a set of static cylinders. Are claimed to be a great way to 1) bust your A$$ and 2) improve your bike handling skills. Basic sets are around $100-200 with "Kreitler" being one of the better reviewed brands coming in at $300-500. Some offer a resistance unit but as I understand it the level of resistance can also depend on the size of the roller cylinder. There is typically a big learning curve..most recommend riding in a doorway so you have something to grad onto on both sides. E-motion Rollers-this is what I have. It is a variation of the roller but the rollers are mounted to a frame that "floats" within an outer frame. Much easier to learn than traditional rollers. It took me maybe 15 minutes to get comfortable on them and another 15 to feel good in an aero position. Mine has a magnet resistance unit with numerous settings. They are more pricey than trainers and regular rollers coming in at $850...they were maybe $695 when I bought mine 2 years ago. Why did I go with these? I liked being able to simply pick up my bike off the rollers and head out on the road. Some trainers are very hard on tires and folks will use a special trainer tire to keep from wearing out their good tires. If you are curious you can see the e-motion rollers at www.insideride.com. Not sure exactly but I probably have 5000+ miles on mine so far. Stationary bikes/spin bikes-I think these have their benefits but it is all what you put into it. I use them if I am traveling and want to get a workout in but still prefer my set up at home. I know there is a newer trainer out there. Lemond something or another that just came out within the last 6 months that I have heard good things about. Computrainers allow you to simulate rides through a computer or on you TV. I know very little about these. The benefit of having a trainer/rollers etc is that you can get a workout in regardless of outside conditions. I have mine set up in the garage with 2 big fans. I have it next to a workbench where I keep my water. I watch dvds on a small player while working out and have a Netflix subscription to keep it interesting. Hope this helps. Others that know more or have different experience please chime in. Randy
Very good overview Randy. I'll add a little with the resistance trainers. There are a couple types, which vary in price, "feel" and noise. Fan and Magnetic are cheapest and tend to be louder. They don't "feel" quite like riding on a road as the resistance curve as you speed up doesn't match up (so you'll find yourself riding 15 mph instead of 20 mph). Not a big deal really. Fluid trainers have a curve that more closely mimics riding on the road and the effects of wind. (so low resistance change going from 5-10 mph but very large going from 20-25). They still won't perfectly match the road, but that's ok. They are also a little quieter. I'll admit when I bought my new fluid trainer to replace my mag, I was hoping for a lot bigger difference that I actually got. Expect to blast the TV (unless it's very close) with either (especially with fans too). I got a pair of wireless headphones which are awesome. I can hear the TV and normal volumens without bothering everyone around me. Trainer tires are nice, but not necessary. Most people use old tires on the trainer because the trainer will burn through a tire much quicker than the road. With a computrainer or tacx system, the bike trainer has a motor built in which can provide variable resistance. So if you program a course, it will get harder when you go uphill and easier when you go down. You can also use another mode where the trainer is set at a certain wattage, say 200 watts. So no the resistance will always be 200 W no matter how fast you pedal (it will be less resistance when you pedal faster and more when you pedal slower). I think people like this because if you need to do 10 min at 200 watts, you just set it in this mode and don't have to worry about monitoring your power. They can be really fun because you can program real courses in there. I did an Alp d'Huez hill climb on one at a shop that carries them, it was pretty cool! That can be a HUGE motivational tool since riding inside on a trainer really, really sucks. In general, setting your bike up on a trainer or rollers is (can be) a better workout than spin classes because you are working on your bike (i.e. the exact position and exact muscles you'll be racing with) and doing your work out. I did a lot of spin classes when I started (until my coach told me I couldn't and gave me workouts to do on a trainer instead). I got a lot faster too. While not optimal, it will still give you a very good workout, especially if you can set up the bike to a close position as your road bike. Also, despite the instructor yelling at you, you don't have to follow their workout all the time. When they did stuff I didn't think was good for me, I did something else on my own. They gear those classes towards fitness more than bike racing, so some stuff doesn't carry over. But if you're more motivated and are able to give more effort in a spin class than on your trainer, they could be a better training tool. It's all up to you and how you plan use use them. I used to loathe the trainer. It's sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo boring. And Hard. And Hot. and did I mention boring? But as with all things, you get used to it. Movies and TV help a lot. Following a workout video (like Spinnervals or Sufferfest) also help a lot. Now though, I really like the trainer and will continue to use it all summer. It's nice because I can't bike from my front door (I live in the city) so it saves a lot of travel time. You never have to worry about weather or daylight. But the real reason I'll keep using it is that there are some workouts I do that I want to do uninterrupted (so no hills, stop signs, lights, etc). You can't beat it for getting a workout of intervals in exactly as prescribed in your plan. This is something that I've come to appreciate since I bought a powermeter. I'm willing to bet Randy will agree with me here. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I did a really good bike yesterday. I was a little frustrated from being off training so much and let loose a bit with some intervals. I just tried another easy run today at lunch again and the vertigo is back badly again. I need a follow up with the ENT I guess. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() jsiegs - 2011-05-03 12:55 PM I just tried another easy run today at lunch again and the vertigo is back badly again. I need a follow up with the ENT I guess. Joe that stinks. I know its frustrating. But, regardless of how long you are away from running you will still be faster than me! Agree with Joe's thoughts on trainers above. I love mine for the flexibility of the workouts I can do. Most of my workouts have some degree of intervals involved and the consistency of the conditions from the rollers makes it easy to track my progress. I use a powertap for training/racing and enjoy reviewing the data to see how I have (hopefully) improved. Ultimately for me the trainer just makes it easier to get that time in the saddle...really no excuse for me to miss a bike workout due to weather or conditions. Of course, general laziness is always a valid excuse...but I try to avoid that. Randy |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I'm just checking in for some motivation. Spent most of the day at a funeral and reception for a friend's father. It has been an emotional day. I'd really like to climb in bed with a bottle of wine, but i'm going to force myself to get a ride in. Then have a bottle of wine. @Joe-I'm sorry about you're still having problems running. I'll chime in on trainers after i spend 90 mins on mine |
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New user ![]() ![]() | ![]() Sounds like a tough day. Good job getting a ride in...maybe you'll only need half that bottle after you finish. |
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