RE-OPENED Birkierunner's 2013 mentor group - RE-OPENED!!! (Page 9)

I could, but I admit that I like the power data staring me in the face during the ride.  I also scroll through a couple of different screens, so keeping it on my wrist would be less than ideal.

TI has kind of a love/hate relationship.  Many new swimmers use it and find a lot of success embedding some fundamentals - others argue that it teaches you to swim slower, and differently than optimal.  There was a actually an old thread on here from a year or so ago where Terry Laughlin was going at it with some of the fish on this site about stroke mechanics, etc., but these guys were really talking about swimming at FOP speeds.  Gary Hall Sr may have chimed in as well.

I've read the book, and used some of the drills when I was starting out, and some of the key points have stuck with me in my head (though maybe not in my stroke).  Mostly though, I swam more, and I tried to swim more often.  If you have the time, then it helps to incorporate drills with swimming.  As a new swimmer you need to build both fitness, and a reasonable stroke.

The one take away you should remember - you should always be thinking about at least one thing with your technique on every stroke.  As an adult swimmer it will never be fully engrained, and you'll have to focus every time you're in the water.  Gets really tough as you tire and the stroke falls apart.

Glad to hear that you keep checking in Dave.  Don't hesitate to ask questions if any of the discussion gets too complex or uses too much jargon.

With regards to TI, I actually took some private lessons from a coach that was a certified TI instructor.  For whatever reason, we never seemed to be on the same page.  He simply couldn't put into words (he taught entirely from the deck) what he wanted me to do in a way that my brain could wrap itself around.  So, I have a negative view of TI from that experience.  The one thing I did take away from it was the way to keep your legs from sinking was to push your head and torso down...but I'm still not totally sure I'm even doing that right and when I focus on that my stroke goes to heck.  I took more lessons from another coach who did a major overhaul of my pull and that alone helped me tremendously rather than doing some of the drills that TI seemed to focus on too much imho.

Scott,

I'm curious what your thoughts on a pull buoy would be.  I received one as a gift over the holidays.  I haven't yet put it to use, but I tend to swim very flat, so I was thinking it would maybe help me to rotate more during my stroke.  Like you said though, it won't be there during the race. 

I train mostly freestyle, but I do some limited breaststroke (and some backstroke mainly as "active rest")

I don't do butterfly because I'm afraid the lifeguard would jump in to try to save me!

Thanks, Todd

Hey Todd -

I think a pull buoy can be beneficial when used in conjunction with paddles.  Ideally, when you use a pull buoy you also have a band around your ankles.  We use to use truck tire inner tubes that were cut into about 2" bands.  The reason for using the buoy and ankle band is to isolate the arms.  By using the buoy you can drag the legs without them sinking and creating drag.  Just dragging the legs helps to promote proper body roll - assuming you are using proper stroke technique.  I do encourage the use of paddles, especially for beginner or intermediate swimmers.

You put on the paddles and you have INSTANT feedback on whether your hand position in the water is correct or not.  I'll give a quick analogy to explain - Imagine you are going down the highway at 70 MPH.  You put your hand out the window and turn your hand upright with your thumb towards the sky.  There is a great deal of resistance as the moving air tries to push your hand back.  Now if you rotate your hand so your thumb is towards the front of the car, your hand suddenly slices through the air, there is very little resistance.  If you turn your hand just a few degrees, the air will 'slip' off your hand and it will go up or down, depending upon which way you turn it (really rudimentary description of what is happening but sufficient to illustrate the concept).  In exactly the same way, when you have paddles on, you will feel the resistance of the water on your hand during your stoke.  If your hand position is not right, you will feel the water 'slipping' off the paddles, just like when your hand was out the window and slightly turned.  The paddles also help with the recovery and entry into the water - for the same reason.  If your hand position is not right, you will feel the drag.  During the stroke, you want the most resistance, during the recovery and entry, you want the least resistance.

So that is probably WAY more than you wanted.  The short answer is, "A pull buoy can be beneficial if used properly."

What's everyone got on tap for today?  I'm aiming to do a triple for the first time in a while.

Rode the trainer for 50min this morning, plan to swim for 30-40min on lunch, and then run with the LRS after work. 

Had a massage on my leg yesterday, and as soon as she touched my ITB (through the heating pad), she loked at me and said "that's not good...".  Needless to say the entire session was spent on just the one leg.

30 minute run on the treadmill at work and then FINALLY I will get on x-c skis this afternoon and do a skate workout.  Its taken me forever to get my skis prepped from summer storage so this is pretty late in the season to be getting on snow. 

Nice job Jim, that's a good number.  Do you not ride the PT on the trainer at the same time?

I have the PT mounted on a separate wheel that has a road tire on it, sitting in the basement.  The wheel currently on the computrainer has a Conti trainer tire on it.  I've just been too lazy to switch out wheels so I can compare power measurements from the CT to the PT. But, I'll do the comparison soon.

I always ride the PT on the trainer.  MyTacx trainer softerware gives me my power numbers, but they tend to be about 20 watts higher than the PT, and when I ride an actual video course then the numbers can be a little out to lunch.

Plus I can drop the PT numbers into whichever software and keep a good record.

still primarily just running.  a bit disappointed with myself from yesterday.  Scheduled to run 18, but couldn't get out of bed early enough to get in long run before work.  (430 wake-up on a cold and rainy day... ugh)  Ended up doing 8 on the treadmill, which is about as long as I can endure that monotony.  I'll be traveling this weekend, so I won't be able to make it up this weekend.  

I've got 60 days until the marathon, and only 3 more long runs on the schedule.  I think I'll still be ok, but I hate missing key workouts.

I want to give a decent answer so give me a little while :-)

Thanks Jim.

For anyone interested there is a really good thread about big training days in Tri Talk.  Terrible thread name, but some good responses and differing views.

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=475039&start=1

I'm a big fan of the paddles -- they really do teach you good hand position and stroke mechanics, which, as a relative new swimmer (just since last September), has taken some getting used to.  I've tried using a pull buoy -- even two, at times -- with absolutely no success.  My legs sink like lead weights.  So, most of the time when I use the paddles, I kick with my legs as well.  I'm sure I'm doing something wrong.  Any suggestions?

Gary

Sorry for the delay in responding.  I had to get a lot of work done on a white paper for work the past few days and couldn’t get quality time to answer your question.  One of your first priorities is determining your goals and limitations, which might sound obvious but many athletes probably skip this step - only knowing the race date.  Limitations refer to things like family, work, friends, time constraints, and fitness constraints.  Next you need to determine your needs…what are your strengths and weaknesses? What is your fitness today compared to what it will need to be come race day?  Are there any technique or skill issues that need to be addressed?  Once you determine the above you can start to build your program keeping in mind what you need to do to maintain strengths and address weaknesses.  Initial field testing in s/b/r is essential for determining where you’re at and subsequent testing at ca. 6 week intervals will be used to evaluate progress (or lack of), and adjust training intensities.  Be honest with yourself during these periodic assessments and make necessary adjustments and be prepared to re-assess your goals if your body isn’t responding properly to the training load you’re putting on it.

I’m assuming you’ve already laid a solid foundation phase to start a race specific training program (see my reference to these phases back on page 8).  A logical place to start is to count the weeks between today and your goal race and determine the number of weeks to be spent in the general phase and then the specific phase.  Without any further information on an athlete, and we’re talking 20 weeks until the goal race, then 10 weeks can be spent in the general phase and the remaining 10 weeks in the specific phase.  The general phase is used to elicit adaptations that aren’t necessarily specific to the goal race before we switch focus to addressing race specific training.  As mentioned above, initial field testing in s/b/r will determine your strengths and weaknesses.  Use the general phase to work on your weaknesses in s/b/r while maintaining your strengths in same.  Weekly hours should average somewhere between 9-11 hours/week, building those hours from start to finish of the general phase.

The specific phase is where we transition to more specific training, achieve the greatest workload, and conduct race simulation training.  I would have your peak hours of about 13-14 hours occur about 5-6 weeks out from your goal race.  Again, building on duration and intensity through the peak. During the most intense block you’ll be doing competition-specific training loads including race simulations at race intensity.  This is also the time when you will be perfecting your race fueling plan, which you should have been practicing starting way back in the general phase as well.  Pay particular attention to proper recovery after these key sessions.  After the peak block your duration of workouts will be shorter, but be sure to maintain adequate intensity at race pace for key workouts.  Start your taper about 10 days out from the race.

I’m willing to bet this answer falls well short of what you are looking for and I haven’t presented anything new.  Providing a specific training plan is beyond the intent of the mentor groups, but there are plenty of resources out there if someone wants a pre-packaged training plan.  I would start with the training plans offered right here on BT.  As mentors, we are never asked to promote the BT plans but it’s a logical place to start.   You can review the plans as a non-paying member but if you want the details of each BT plans you would need to bump up from the free membership to one of the bronze, silver, or gold packages.