Newbz'z summer mentor group is FULL!!!! (Page 97)

Dirk...congrats again on what sounds like an amazing experience.

Same here.  I ended up having a great long run.  I went out a bit quick...but I still negative split.  The last 4-5 miles were tough to hold pace, but I used it as a way to build my mental toughness.  It's about then I started thinking about how Dirk must have been feeling...and that he must be hurting way more than I was at the time.

It will be a nice mini taper week for me coming up...then racing a half marathon next Sunday.  Very curious to see what type of time I'll put up. 

Edited by tri808 2010-10-31 6:36 PM

Hey just an FYI, someone is selling a carbon beaker concepts hydro tail and carbon cages for $65 in the classifieds.  The cages alone are $45 each I think.  Looks like it's in perfect shape.  The exact setup that I have and works great!  One of you needs this.

I just had my first chance to plug in my Garmin after the race and check out the lap details for my race. 

Overall my watch said I ran 26.4 miles in 3:25:02 for a 7:46 pace avg.  I had to stop for a nature break right a mile 2 (to nervous at the start and nothing real close) and that explains the difference in my official time and my Garmin time.  I stopped my watch while I excused myself to the trees and remembered to start it right back up.  I didn't think I was gone that long but whatever.

My official chip time was 3:26:06 and gun time was 3:26:24 which is probably pretty accurate to when I started and finished because I was fairly close to the start line.  My official pace time is 7:52.

HR data shows I was pretty consistent with my effort all the way to mile 24.  The last 2 miles were lower HR's but I was willing myself to keep running at that point.  Those 2 avg. HR's were 159 and 156 respectively.  Otherwise my avg. HR was 163 for the other 24 miles and for the race overall.  Obviously I had some higher spikes but only one other lower than 160 and it was 159 at mile 4.  This was about right for me at this distance I would think.  Going back to my last 5k race on April 17 (which was a PR at 21:00) my HR avg. HR was the same, at 163.  With this information it seems to confirm that I laid it all on the line.

I am still in recover mode......obviously!  I can hardly walk because of massive muscle soreness and my family is currently call me "Mr. Waddles."  The 9 hour ride in the car yesterday didn't help my current lack of mobility situation, I am sure.  But all in all, it was worth every ounce of pain and grief I have dealt with over the past many months of training and injury recovery (more than a year ago) to finish.  If I had a choice to go back knowing what I know now, I wouldn't change any of the experiences I have had.  From the frustration of the knee injuries to the painful training runs and grueling triathlon training sessions to cross train for this race, EVERY minute of it was worth it.

Have a great day to all of you.

Dirk,

thats awesome and i'm glad everything came together like that. for a first marathon i dont think you could ask for anything more, and frankly there are people that have been racing them MUCH longer than you that still dont come as close to getting it right as you did.

Only two real struggling miles in that race is something to be proud of, and on your first no less.
You did a very good job pacing (something most do not), and ran a good time because of it and all the hard work you put in.

Now on to Mr Waddles. I'd recommend (if you have not before), and even if you never do again, take an ice bath, like up to the waist. (put on some gloves, hat, and a compression top, you'll need it).
It will do wonders for your legs and speed up the healing process a LOT. It will suck hardcore for the first 2-5min while your feet go numb, but you'll be fine after that. dont stay in more than 10 min or so though.

Also, if you can get in a pool or on a bike sometime in the next day or so, EASY, but move around. again this will help things loosen up and heal quicker.

yup...ice bath and movement.

LOL!  I mean seriously! I was laughing out loud for the Mr. Waddles comment.  Now my family has my mentor group calling me that name. Hilarious!

Seriously though,  I have taken ice baths but thought they should be taken fairly soon after the race/training session.  And frankly I didn't have the energy to go through that agony soon after the race, nor did I even think about it until about 8 PM when I heard someone else say something about it, then I thought it was to late to be effective.  Should I go ahead and still do one?

As far as the bike I was thinking about doing that today too.  Like you said, very easy pace kind of thing.  I know it will help me to get some of the soreness and stiffness out.  I'm gonna do that a bit later on.

far as the pacing thing goes., I talked to some people at the start line that told me to make sure I held my pace.  They told me "no matter how you feel at mile 15-16, there are still 11-12 miles to go, don't turn it up any."  This constantly reverberated through my mind as I ran!  There were several times where people were passing me that I was getting frustrated thinking "I feel good, I can go faster" but I held my pace no matter what my mind was telling me "I can do."  Honestly (not to make myself out to be a real level headed athlete) I am very proud of myself for keeping my pace where I did.  My mind was screaming........ "turn it on."  I got frustrated because I felt like I was being passed by everyone and some people I thought I shouldn't be.  I kept telling myself "they're gonna pay at the end, while I am cruising to the line."  In some cases I know this was true because I saw many of them on the side of the road stretching and walking with 2-3 miles to go.  Thats when I started thanking myself some......but mostly I was just hurting to bad to care about them at that point.

Dirk...yup...that was the same experience I had during my first.  I was actually chuckling to myself when people would pass me after the 9 mile mark.  Because if you weren't ahead of me by 9 miles...you have no business passing me now unless you had a long bathroom break.

Needless to say...I can count on one hand how many people passed me during the last 12 miles...and I passed a few hundred. 

It's also why I'm a big fan of negative splitting over trying to bank time...even if it's just a couple of minutes.  The motivation you get when you are slowly picking people off during the last 5 miles is really uplifting...and helps hide the pain.  And on the flip side...it has to be very demoralizing when you're struggling to hold pace...and people are passing you.

Dirk- Great job on the race and nice write up in your RR. A marathon still seems like an impossible distance, so its all very impressive to me. Hopefully, I can be smart with the pacing of my HM in 5 weeks.

Which leads me to my next question. As Jamie and I are doing longer and longer runs, we have been taking 1 minute water breaks every 2 miles. This all started because Jamie didn't have a fuel belt and needed water. We run a 2 mile loop in her neighborhood, so we decided to just leave our water bottles on her porch and take a drink everytime we passed. We do the same thing when we run in my neighborhood, only doing a 3.5 mile loop and stopping back at my house for water. We don't completely stop moving. We grab the water and kinda pace back and forth for about a minute while drinking, then run another loop.

I kinda like this, because I know I just have to run for 2-3 miles before getting a small break. We were thinking that during the HM, we would run from aide station to aide station. When we got to the aide station we would grab water and walk while drinking it for about a minute then start running again. I know everyone has different opinions about the run/walk thing, but what are your opinions on this strategy? Should I try to run the whole thing? Or would I have a better overall time if I took a few short breaks?

When in a race...I prefer to run through the aid stations because for me...that's the fastest way to the finish line.  Unless I'm doing an ultra, I have the fitness to run the whole way, so stopping to get water will likely slow me down...IMO.

During training...I think the run/walk method when getting a drink of water is perfectly fine.  I usually stop at a water fountain for about 20-30 seconds (every 2-3 miles) to get a drink...then start back up again. 

Remember...the goal of the long run is to build endurance...not speed.  Taking walk breaks or water breaks means your overall pace is slower...but it also means you are spending more time out on the road...and that has it's benefit too.

The only reason I would advocate for trying to minimize walk breaks during a long run is just so you can mentally get used to how it feels...and not rely on walk breaks as a crutch during a race (assuming your goal is to run the whole way).  Once you understand and get used to that mental part...I really see no need to avoid walk breaks during training...and I would actually encourage them just to make sure you are getting enough water.

Dirk: awesome that you were able to hold the same HR you hit in the April 5K race.  

Jackie:  if you are training using a walk/run approach, I would say use it for the race too.   You might want to try slowly knocking down your walk times during training.   I ended up walking 15-20 seconds at the aid stations in my last couple of Olys just so I could make sure I got the water in me instead of on me. 

Yeah Waddles, I would definitely still do the ice bath.  I did one the night I got home from my HIM and it helped a lot.  You still have that inflammation to get rid of.  Probably not as much as right after the race, but it will probably still help you.

I re-read my post and just wanted to be clear.  It's perfectly okay to walk through aid stations during a race...like dcon mentioned...just try to cut them down a bit.  I was just referencing to how I race.

My main point though was to make sure you differentiate your long runs from your races.  You don't need to simulate your races in your long runs...so don't feel like you need to take minimal time during water or walk breaks.  So for me...the 20-30 seconds I take turning training is a big difference from not stopping during races...but that's not a big deal for me.  If you plan to walk 30 seconds at each aid station during a race...don't feel that a 1-2 minute walk break during training is a bad thing.

Jackie and dcon, thanks for the props for my race.  As you have read, it was pretty tough but I am very happy to have trained and completed it.

Jackie,  I agree with J an dcon as well.  I would plan to take those walking water break if you need to during a race since your exertion level may be higher than your training runs.  I actually had to walk for 2 of the aid stations during my race but it was because, as dcon said, I wanted to consume some water "rather than wear it."  I was getting dehydrated as well despite taking on small amounts of fluids at nearly every station.  Also, as others have said, your training runs are your training runs and your races are just that....races.

For example, my training runs for my marathon were in the neighborhood of 8:25 - 8:35 minute miles for all of my long runs and my race avg. from this past weekend was 7:52.  During all of my training I carried water with me and stopped once for a restroom break or to refill my water bottles.  I say these things to encourage you.  You can do what your mind will allow yourself to do......If you think you can run through a couple of aid stations try it and then you can back down if you need to.  But if you need to stop because of dehydration or the need to stretch out a bit, by all means do so.  your goal is to finish, not be carried off.  You'll be fine!  You training hard.  Just keep it up.!

i too stop during training runs, for water, road crossings, geese, crazed bikes, etc.
no pacing, jsut dead stop normally. it wont hurt your run, just get moving again quickly.

Thanks everyone for the advice and encouragement.

lol....the first time I read through this my brain came up with "crazed geese".   For some reason that sounded more logical than crazed bikes.  

my closer to home runs, they are sort of one and the same.

Getting pretty excited about this weekends half marathon.

Getting a bit nervous about following up after Dirk's impressive race at MCM.  My goal is 1:50, but I think I can go faster than that on my best day.  So I'm going to pace 1:50 going out the first 7 miles, and try to negative split if possible.

Weather is forecasted as clear, 74-76 degrees, and 70% humidity...perfect weather for these areas.

 

Edited by tri808 2010-11-05 3:07 PM

after my race, i'd say get in a 10-15 min warm up!

Good luck, even or neg splits is the way to go if you can.
I wanted to, but was not happening for me.



Good luck, have a fun race and let us know how it goes.




I'm running a 10k as part of a team at teh bridge run this sunday, should be fun but not expecting anything time wise, just a fun hard-ish run to help my team out.

Yeah...I'm actually thinking of a 15-25 minute warm-up, with at least a few bursts at race pace like you mentioned before

I think I've got a pretty good idea of what my body needs to warm up.  Usually it's right around 20 minutes.  I'll still feel a bit "junk" for the next 10 minutes at race pace...but I can't use up too much energy warming up.  I figure the first 1.5 miles of the race is flat, and it's also congested...so it's not like I can go fast right off the bat.  The first of two major hills also starts after the first 1.5 miles, so as long as I'm "in the groove" by then, no problems.

yeah,

the way i look at it right now,

the shorter the race the more i'll risk warming up a bit too much. 5ks i've done up to 4 miles total.

the longer the race, the more i'm ok letting the first mile suck a bit due to lack of warmup as you start runnign the risk of burning to many matches during the warm up.

if you are going to be a bit boxed in during the first mile i'd take a bit off the warm up and use that first mile as the rest of it. you're already planning on being out there just under two hours so keep that in mind

of the 15-25 minutes...at least 10-15 minutes will be brisk walking or light jogging.  Only about 10 minutes max of actual "running" and only a few short 30 second bursts at HM pace.  I just thought I would extend it out longer to allow a longer time period for blood flow...but the actual running part of the warmup is essentially 10-15 minutes.

sounds good. is the race tomorrow or sunday?