Got Your Mojo WORKIN'! group - CLOSED (Page 97)

stevebradley - 2011-04-11 10:53 AM GENE - You asked George....but may I chime in here? One way I think of it is that gels and drinks don't necessarily make you feel better, but prevent you from feeling worse. Kind of like gas in your car -- you don't notice it doing anything while you're driving and there' sneough in the tank, but if it runs out...... The basic idea behind gels and drinks (such as HEED) is that these can be the best way to keep your calories elevated, and energy flowing, and disaster from occurring. I have read that the average-sized person burns 200-300cal/hour during exercise, although thos e figures vary according to the source and the study. It is unrealistic to try to replenish 100% of what is lost, be it calories or electrolytes or protein, but to NOT try to attempt to replenish anything is a disaster waiting to happen. It's at times like this when people "bonk" or "hit the wall" -- nightmares worth anything to avoid. Hammer would tell you that thier gel and drink (HEED) will serve all of your caloric and energy needs up to about two hours of exertion, after which a protein may need to be added to the mix -- otherwise the body will catabolize( I think that's the term) its own muscle stores (risk even higher, then, of bonking and hitting the wall). I don't have a Hammer Gel at hand, but two others I have contain 100 and 110 calories per packet. So, following the standard gel-protocol of a couple an hour, and you're at 200+ calories right there. (I just found two H.G., one with 100cal and one with 90cal; a CarbBoom! I just found has 110.) Using 2 scoops of HEED in a 24oz bottle will provide 200cal, so when I go through 1/2-3/4 of a bottle on an oly bike ride, which is about 70min for me, I'm doing okay calorie-wise. The other advantage for HEED is that it contains a few electrolytes that aren't in Hammer Gel (or most gels). H.G. will have some sodium, but that's it; HEED has sodium+potassium+calcium+magnesium. I rarely think about my race nutrition anymore, at least for sprints and olys. But thinking about it now, for an oly it will be a gel pre-swim, and a bottle of stuff (usually HEED) during the ride, a gel towards the end of the bike, and at least one gel during the run. So, that'll be 100+200+100+100 in calories, and given that I'm through an oly in 2:25-2:30, that's at the lower limit for the recom of 200-300cal/hour. BUT, I also drink from each aid station, so 3-5 slurps of drink there will add another 100 or so calories, I would think. All of that is to say that I never run out of energy (in a serious deprivational sense that affects my performance) in an olympic-distance race, and I do it by keeping simple -- gels and energy drink. I can and have at times added a bit of something solid, usually a Clif Bar morsel, but I mostly try to stay away from solids in the rsces in which I will be going hard from wall-to-wall --- who needs the gastric distress?!? Finally, I will say that at times I feel that getting a gel into me will provide an actual physical "kick" of sorts, especially if I have gone a long time without getting anything into me, and have begun to flag noticeably. This might be a placebo-effect.....but I think not. I never count on it happening, yet sometimes it seems to.

 If I remember correctly this all has to to do with glycogen stores or something. We all have a finite reserve of glycogen to draw on, that is our "tank". for me that is 2.5 hours. At 2;25 I can be feeling great, fast strong motivated-at 2;30 and can barely turn my legs over, trouble concentrating etc-like running out of gas-one coke or a snickers bar has saved me and fueled me enough to get home in the past, like scavenging lose change in your car seats for gas. The idea as I understand it with gu's and the like is to be able to keep the fuel flowing in an easily digested and readily accessible, by your body, manner to avoid that "bonk". That extra kick might be the dramatic difference between feeling near dead and alive again. There is a powerful psychological link with this, your brain burns fuel too.

 When I did ultra distance stuff I would make a point of keeping the gu coming every 30 minutes or so starting fairly early and adding Ensure every hour, if I could get it cold. If that wasn't practical It was raiding convenience stores every 20 miles or so

It's always good to have an anecdote validated.

One year I was on Gerry Tatrai's RAAM support crew-he liked to mix Ensure and Mountain Dew in his bottle-eewe.

At Ironbutt (24 hour time trial) one year I had quit drinking coffee or any caffeine for six weeks prior to lower my tolerance until race day. I can't really report any difference, there are too many other variables but it was an interesting plan.

In the dark days of down tube shifters, before all these scientific nutrition products, cyclists relied on flat coke in their bottles. I think there is a scene in American Flyers depicting this.

Somewhere there is a poster of TDF riders in wool shorts with their leather tires over their shoulders having a smoke before hitting the mountains-to "strengthen the lungs"

I have read enough race reports to think that some racers attribute poor performance to a nutrition problem too often, when the real culprit was a training or pacing issue.

No point to all this-just rambling-still feeling a little strung out from my weekend's long ride and run

Only swam 2000 yards at noon. I was going to try for 3000 but it got crowded and I was actually the fastest swimmer in the lane.  That never happens.  So I got frustrated and am back at work.

Does anyone use a nutrition calculator on the web or elsewhere?  I am wondering how much trouble they are.

I drank coke at last year's Eagleman.  I had not had a coke with sugar for aabout 20 years but I drank it that day.  It was cold and wonderful.  I guess I don't run fast enough for it to upset my stomach.

Your son is pretty adorable and he does look fast.  I guess that's genetic.

Steve,

The nutrition explanation makes sense.  For long workout days, 90+ minutes, do the gels or HEED help with recovery?  If yes for a 90 minute workout should the gel/drinK be at the front end of the workout, during, or after?  Or should i just stick with eating a healthy diet.  

Av8rTx - 2011-04-11 9:04 AM

stevebradley - 2011-04-11 10:53 AM GENE - You asked George....but may I chime in here? One way I think of it is that gels and drinks don't necessarily make you feel better, but prevent you from feeling worse. Kind of like gas in your car -- you don't notice it doing anything while you're driving and there' sneough in the tank, but if it runs out...... The basic idea behind gels and drinks (such as HEED) is that these can be the best way to keep your calories elevated, and energy flowing, and disaster from occurring. I have read that the average-sized person burns 200-300cal/hour during exercise, although thos e figures vary according to the source and the study. It is unrealistic to try to replenish 100% of what is lost, be it calories or electrolytes or protein, but to NOT try to attempt to replenish anything is a disaster waiting to happen. It's at times like this when people "bonk" or "hit the wall" -- nightmares worth anything to avoid. Hammer would tell you that thier gel and drink (HEED) will serve all of your caloric and energy needs up to about two hours of exertion, after which a protein may need to be added to the mix -- otherwise the body will catabolize( I think that's the term) its own muscle stores (risk even higher, then, of bonking and hitting the wall). I don't have a Hammer Gel at hand, but two others I have contain 100 and 110 calories per packet. So, following the standard gel-protocol of a couple an hour, and you're at 200+ calories right there. (I just found two H.G., one with 100cal and one with 90cal; a CarbBoom! I just found has 110.) Using 2 scoops of HEED in a 24oz bottle will provide 200cal, so when I go through 1/2-3/4 of a bottle on an oly bike ride, which is about 70min for me, I'm doing okay calorie-wise. The other advantage for HEED is that it contains a few electrolytes that aren't in Hammer Gel (or most gels). H.G. will have some sodium, but that's it; HEED has sodium+potassium+calcium+magnesium. I rarely think about my race nutrition anymore, at least for sprints and olys. But thinking about it now, for an oly it will be a gel pre-swim, and a bottle of stuff (usually HEED) during the ride, a gel towards the end of the bike, and at least one gel during the run. So, that'll be 100+200+100+100 in calories, and given that I'm through an oly in 2:25-2:30, that's at the lower limit for the recom of 200-300cal/hour. BUT, I also drink from each aid station, so 3-5 slurps of drink there will add another 100 or so calories, I would think. All of that is to say that I never run out of energy (in a serious deprivational sense that affects my performance) in an olympic-distance race, and I do it by keeping simple -- gels and energy drink. I can and have at times added a bit of something solid, usually a Clif Bar morsel, but I mostly try to stay away from solids in the rsces in which I will be going hard from wall-to-wall --- who needs the gastric distress?!? Finally, I will say that at times I feel that getting a gel into me will provide an actual physical "kick" of sorts, especially if I have gone a long time without getting anything into me, and have begun to flag noticeably. This might be a placebo-effect.....but I think not. I never count on it happening, yet sometimes it seems to.

 If I remember correctly this all has to to do with glycogen stores or something. We all have a finite reserve of glycogen to draw on, that is our "tank". for me that is 2.5 hours. At 2;25 I can be feeling great, fast strong motivated-at 2;30 and can barely turn my legs over, trouble concentrating etc-like running out of gas-one coke or a snickers bar has saved me and fueled me enough to get home in the past, like scavenging lose change in your car seats for gas. The idea as I understand it with gu's and the like is to be able to keep the fuel flowing in an easily digested and readily accessible, by your body, manner to avoid that "bonk". That extra kick might be the dramatic difference between feeling near dead and alive again. There is a powerful psychological link with this, your brain burns fuel too.

 When I did ultra distance stuff I would make a point of keeping the gu coming every 30 minutes or so starting fairly early and adding Ensure every hour, if I could get it cold. If that wasn't practical It was raiding convenience stores every 20 miles or so

Knowing your wall is at 2:30 when do you go to the gu to get it into your system before the wall?

stevebradley - 2011-04-11 10:57 AM ALEX - Lemon-Lime HEED has 2g sugars in a 29g scoop, and the recommendation is for 1-2 scoops per 16oz-24oz water bottle. EFS is not for you, though, having 16g sugars per 32oz scoop. I dislike the "cloying" drinks, which maybe explains why I do well with HEED. Many stores that carry HEED at all will carry it in individual packets, and that would be a good way to give it a try without buying a big 2320g vat. If you can't find any of the packets, let me know and I can get you a couple and send them to you -- just somehting I do as a Full Service Mentor! EFS seems to really unsettle me -- might be the sugars, might be the huge electrolytes. It has a whopping 750mg of sodium, as opposed to 100mg in HEED. Others, with EFS first and then HEED: potassium, 160mg vs 16mg; calcium, 100mg vs. 31mg; magnesium, 150mg vs 16mg. Those a re all approximate, as serving sizes differ slightly. But what isn't approxiamte is that I can drink HEED until the cows come home, but with EFS I'm not not sure how it will affcet me (and have never dared try it in a race!!!)

Steve,

If you mix up a bottle of HEED for a training ride and don't drink it all can you leave the rest in your bottle and drink it on your next ride?

I guess I will be drinking it again this year.  As you know there is not a whole lot of shade on that course and it does get hot.  My head got sunburned last year. That may be because I was out there too long but I hesitate to cover my hair with sunscreen.  You are yucky enough when you finish.  Last year I hustled home which meant I got inline to cross the Bay Bridge.  Thank goodness for air conditioning.  I really needed a shower.  It's also good that I was alone.

Today I am planning to go to the Y before my class and run as long as I can on the treadmill.  It is not enough, but I figure if my plans don't go as predicted I should do something everyday.  These people I work with keep planning meetings for lunch time.  I guess they are not aware of my priorities.  I should have insisted that my son go to the state school but he didn't so I guess I will be here for the duration (~3 more years).  Actually, I like my  job (jobs), so things could be a lot worse.

The scale is pretty cool. remember I told you about DC Rainmaker? He did one of his product reviews on it. 

?http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2010/02/tanita-bc-1000-scale-review-in-depth.html

Check it out.

Holy Moly Ellen, I looked at the link on the scale, heck I dont have Rocket Scientist Degree, I could never figure out how to work that one.  I like the ones I pull out of the box and stand on.  I do need to replace mine at home since it says Im 5 pounds heavier then the one at the Doctor and the gym, so to me it broke.  I admire your training Ellen, it makes me tired reading your log.

Well I went to the local tri meeting last night and they were really nice and it seems like they have a lot of support from local business around the area.  I plan to join this weekend.  I plan to do some training on the weekend with them sometimes, but I still like be solo and doing my own thing.