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2013-01-16 10:58 PM
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Subject: RE: Gary's Mentor Group - Closed for Training
Dorm57 - 2013-01-16 6:00 AM

kmfioc - 2013-01-15 11:20 PM I had a similar run today dorm, except shorter ...  Also got in 45 minutes on the trainer ... Starting week 2 of the winter cycling program ... New Year is off to a good start

K - excellente' ... Oh and you are doing it right.  The real runners in the group have stressed all along that it's the time one puts in that pays off.  My direction is to focus on running for 1/2 hour, 45 mins, etc in lieu of how far and at what pace.  If I focus on the time, then the others aspect will come.

Interesting fact from the group run last night ... we had about 30 people in all which were split into 2 groups - fast and slow.  One of the leads in my group was a young lady who has qualified to compete in world triathlon competitions.  I'll have to find out more, but I really need to hang in there with this group .



Regarding the running comment, I set an aggressive half marathon goal last year and started to do speed work at the track at age 46 and hurt my knees. After backing off I did most of my runs at an easy pace, no speed work, and occasional tempo runs if my first half split was good and I felt good. I didn't hit my aggressive goal but I cut five minutes off my half marathon PR and didn't get hurt. I'm now a believer of mostly slow running, sometimes fast as you will see in different threads on BT.


2013-01-17 9:25 AM
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Keller
Subject: RE: Gary's Mentor Group - Closed for Training
Speed vs long&slow.I like Rich Roll's take on the subject. It's about pushing yourself inside HR zone 2. Some of my best running gains were in the army doing Indian runs. I have gone back to to that training thought with 2 out 3 runs, and the third being at recovery pace. It is an approach that requires more patience, but my heavier legs seem to be responding well.For those don't know what an Indian run is: after warm up. The last guy in the formation sprints to the front on command while the rest of the formation is at a slow jog. I've adapted by splitting my run time into segments:10% warm up, 80% minimal threshold for HR zone 2 & 10% high threshold for HR zone 2. The planned segments are only goals with my HR alerts on the GArmin guiding execution. Ransick - your the kinda of the running guru. What do you think? Tracy
2013-01-17 3:06 PM
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Subject: RE: Gary's Mentor Group - Closed for Training
stratigos - 2013-01-17 9:25 AM
I've adapted by splitting my run time into segments:10% warm up, 80% minimal threshold for HR zone 2 & 10% high threshold for HR zone 2. The planned segments are only goals with my HR alerts on the GArmin guiding execution. Ransick - your the kinda of the running guru. What do you think? Tracy


Strat...I am curious to hear others responses on this as well. I like the idea of giving this a try soon. I understand what you are doing, but could you break it down a little bit for me. I am just starting to figure out HR training a little.

More specifically, what do you mean when you say 80% min threashold in z2 and 10% high threshold in z2. I understand what zone two is, but the rest confused me a little.

If I had to guess, I would say that you mean, 80% of your time spent at the lowest hr and still be in zone 2 and 10% highest hr possible and still be in zone two. Is this correct?
2013-01-18 9:49 PM
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Subject: RE: Gary's Mentor Group - Closed for Training
Now that the snow is gone going to try for a 13 mile run tomorrow. I have to get ready for the race in 4 weeks. Any advice for this newbie would be greatly appreciated. This will be my first ever race of any kind.
2013-01-18 10:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Gary's Mentor Group - Closed for Training
stratigos - 2013-01-17 9:25 AM

Speed vs long&slow.I like Rich Roll's take on the subject. It's about pushing yourself inside HR zone 2. Some of my best running gains were in the army doing Indian runs. I have gone back to to that training thought with 2 out 3 runs, and the third being at recovery pace. It is an approach that requires more patience, but my heavier legs seem to be responding well.For those don't know what an Indian run is: after warm up. The last guy in the formation sprints to the front on command while the rest of the formation is at a slow jog. I've adapted by splitting my run time into segments:10% warm up, 80% minimal threshold for HR zone 2 & 10% high threshold for HR zone 2. The planned segments are only goals with my HR alerts on the GArmin guiding execution. Ransick - your the kinda of the running guru. What do you think? Tracy


I'm a big fan of running mostly in zone 2. Minimizes risk of injury and reduces recovery time. I have trouble always staying in zone 2 but have read about people sticking with it and having there hr drop over time while maintaining the same speed and I believe it.

The other keys are consistency and frequency. If you could add a fourth run a week, you would likely see even bigger gains. I know it's tough when training for three sports and a lot of plans call for three runs. Are you following a plan?

2013-01-18 10:21 PM
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Subject: RE: Gary's Mentor Group - Closed for Training
Brett's - 2013-01-18 9:49 PM

Now that the snow is gone going to try for a 13 mile run tomorrow. I have to get ready for the race in 4 weeks. Any advice for this newbie would be greatly appreciated. This will be my first ever race of any kind.


How many miles are you running per week? How many runs per week? What race in four weeks?


2013-01-19 12:06 AM
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Subject: RE: Gary's Mentor Group - Closed for Training
Now that the snow is gone going to try for a 13 mile run tomorrow. I have to get ready for the race in 4 weeks. Any advice for this newbie would be greatly appreciated. This will be my first ever race of any kind.


How many miles are you running per week? How many runs per week? What race in four weeks?


I am currently running around 10-15 per week I usually run Monday, Wednesday, and Friday and try to do 3 miles each if those days and then one longer run (between 6-10) on the weekend. I am going to run the Mercedes half Mary here in Birmingham. I have not been able to run at all this week week do to the cold wet weather. I am a little intemidated with just the thought of 13.1 miles but I am sure it is just rookie nerves. Haha
2013-01-19 6:39 AM
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Subject: RE: Gary's Mentor Group - Closed for Training

Gary, what are your thoughts on wearing a tri-top during the swim?  My first race of the season is a sprint with an indoor pool swim and I'm looking to reduce T1 time by wearing the top during the swim.  Does wearing the top add drag? I'm envisioning either a poly top or suit ... is there a particular brand you'd recommend?

2013-01-19 7:33 AM
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Subject: RE: Gary's Mentor Group - Closed for Training
Dorm57 - 2013-01-19 6:39 AM

Gary, what are your thoughts on wearing a tri-top during the swim?  My first race of the season is a sprint with an indoor pool swim and I'm looking to reduce T1 time by wearing the top during the swim.  Does wearing the top add drag? I'm envisioning either a poly top or suit ... is there a particular brand you'd recommend?

I always wear my top on the swim.  You will lose a lot more time by not wearing it and trying to put it on in T1.  That said you need to make sure that you have a properly fitting top.  I had one that I gave away because it was too loose on me.  As soon as I hit the water it became a bit of a drag.  Even still I am guessing I lost maybe 2 seconds per 100 meters.  On a sprint that could be 16 seconds.  Trying to put a tight shirt (or semi tight shirt) on a wet body is going to take more than that.

2013-01-19 7:57 AM
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Subject: RE: Gary's Mentor Group - Closed for Training

My two cents on running.  As a background for the newer folks, I was a runner often and on and got serious about running.  My 5k times were dropping and had my sites set on a half.  Started ramping up my mileage when I ended up injurying my in a non-running related incident.  PT then eventually surgery and Dr saying cut back or off running, if I do run no marathons or even half's.

Its taken a few years but my running is much better.  I run three days a week with an occasional extra 1-2 mile run.  I do a short, medium and long run each week with relative lengths determined by what distance I am training for.  I don't use HR but try to listen to what my body is telling me and simple tests such as "at this pace could I hold a conversation?" for easy runs versus "at this pace could all I do was blurt out single words" for instense runs.  I usually never fall into the "Maximum effort and conversation isn't even a consideration"

Last parting comments, I think way too many beginner runners (including myself) concentrate on speed work for their first year or two of running.  That first year really needs to be about building your base and getting your body used to running.  But I do believe that varying your pace, having some of your runs be at a pace that you can give short but not single word answer to questions is important as long as that is not where you are concentrating your training.

BTW, its called Rate of Perceived Exertion (RPE) which uses a scale of 1-10.  Its not a fool proof method and takes time to learn how to use it.

Okay, off my soap box and about to hop on the bike with the trainer.  Its in the low 40's out there and I am taking the easy route this morning.

Later

2013-01-19 9:14 AM
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Subject: RE: Gary's Mentor Group - Closed for Training
Dorm57 - 2013-01-19 6:39 AM

 I'm envisioning either a poly top or suit ... is there a particular brand you'd recommend?

Sorry, missed the 2nd half here. Fit and comfort is key here.  For racing, I wear my tri clubs race top but I also have a Zoot tri top that I have used.  Note that you want it to be a tight/snug fit, last thing you want is when you hit the water it balloons out.  But since you will also be running in it you have to be comfortable.  Sorry, not a lot of help here.  May be others can recommend a brand?



2013-01-19 10:31 AM
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Subject: RE: Gary's Mentor Group - Closed for Training
Brett's - 2013-01-19 12:06 AM

Now that the snow is gone going to try for a 13 mile run tomorrow. I have to get ready for the race in 4 weeks. Any advice for this newbie would be greatly appreciated. This will be my first ever race of any kind.


How many miles are you running per week? How many runs per week? What race in four weeks?


I am currently running around 10-15 per week I usually run Monday, Wednesday, and Friday and try to do 3 miles each if those days and then one longer run (between 6-10) on the weekend. I am going to run the Mercedes half Mary here in Birmingham. I have not been able to run at all this week week do to the cold wet weather. I am a little intemidated with just the thought of 13.1 miles but I am sure it is just rookie nerves. Haha


In general, the long run shouldn't be more than 30-40% of your weekly volume. Some people can get away with more and the younger you are, the more likely you are to get away with it. I like Gary's one short, one medium, and one long run approach if you are running three times a week. If running four, throw in another short run, five throw in another medium, six throw in another short. I don't think many normal people can run 6x a week and swim and bike too (and have a family, job, life, etc). At the end of the tri season last year, I tried to run six times per week and didn't hit it very often even without swimming and biking.
2013-01-20 11:37 AM
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Subject: RE: Gary's Mentor Group - Open for Training

RCatoire001 - 2012-12-27 9:41 PM Thanks for fitting me in.  I will be down in Baton Rouge next month for Louisiana 1/2 marathon.  Will be doing it with a friend from work.  Will you be running in it?

Inquiring minds want to know, how did it go?  Beautiful day for a run in BTR!

As a reminder to the group, you are all required (in a good sort of way) to do race reports.  Race reports are a great way for others to learn and also a good learning tool for you.  Many times I have gone to past RR's for the same race I am about to do. 

2013-01-20 11:39 AM
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Subject: RE: Gary's Mentor Group - Closed for Training

ransick - 2013-01-19 10:31 AM  In general, the long run shouldn't be more than 30-40% of your weekly volume. Some people can get away with more and the younger you are, the more likely you are to get away with it.

Mike, great advice that I generally follow but I need to follow closer.

2013-01-20 2:12 PM
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Subject: RE: Gary's Mentor Group - Closed for Training

Beautiful weather here over the weekend as compared to rain and 40's temps most of last week.  I decided to do some wrenching on Ruby (my Cannondale System-Six) on Saturday wherein I changed out the crank back to a compact instead of standard gearing and the shifters, brakes, etc.  Long story short, I bought another frame off CL and the gent just started throwing in Dura-Ace components ... brake calipers, front-rear derailleurs, carbon stem, Look Keo pedals, 2 wheel sets, etc.  So I just swapped out the stuff on Ruby over to the DA components.  Once assembled, I took the bike to the LBS to have these adjust the derailleurs and shifters.  I have spent hours trying to adjust these before, with no luck whatsoever.  To me, this is an area where it is so technical my time is better spent taking the bike to someone who knows.

While I was in the LBS, I spied a trainer ... I've been looking at these for a while and I finally broke down and got one.  Not the typical stationary one, but the rollers.  It was a closeout model and marked down low, so I could not resist.  I've already been warned about how twitchy these are and plan to set the thing up in the hallway or a doorway because I am definitely crash prone

Like this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSaPajfc4Zc

2013-01-20 3:34 PM
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Subject: RE: Gary's Mentor Group - Closed for Training
Score on the components!

Awesome about the rollers. I've heard they are great once you get coordinated enough to use them without worrying. Interested to hear how they work out for you.


2013-01-20 9:04 PM
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Subject: RE: Gary's Mentor Group - Closed for Training
GaryRM - 2013-01-19 7:57 AM

My two cents on running.  As a background for the newer folks, I was a runner often and on and got serious about running.  My 5k times were dropping and had my sites set on a half.  Started ramping up my mileage when I ended up injurying my in a non-running related incident.  PT then eventually surgery and Dr saying cut back or off running, if I do run no marathons or even half's.

Its taken a few years but my running is much better.  I run three days a week with an occasional extra 1-2 mile run.  I do a short, medium and long run each week with relative lengths determined by what distance I am training for.  I don't use HR but try to listen to what my body is telling me and simple tests such as "at this pace could I hold a conversation?" for easy runs versus "at this pace could all I do was blurt out single words" for instense runs.  I usually never fall into the "Maximum effort and conversation isn't even a consideration"

Last parting comments, I think way too many beginner runners (including myself) concentrate on speed work for their first year or two of running.  That first year really needs to be about building your base and getting your body used to running.  But I do believe that varying your pace, having some of your runs be at a pace that you can give short but not single word answer to questions is important as long as that is not where you are concentrating your training.

BTW, its called Rate of Perceived Exertion (RPE) which uses a scale of 1-10.  Its not a fool proof method and takes time to learn how to use it.

Okay, off my soap box and about to hop on the bike with the trainer.  Its in the low 40's out there and I am taking the easy route this morning.

Later

Thanks for the great thoughts on this.

2013-01-20 9:06 PM
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Subject: RE: Gary's Mentor Group - Closed for Training

I start my run training tomorrow.  I purchased new running shoes this last weekend at a local running store in Houston called Fleet Feet.  The guys in there were great and wanted to make sure that I had a good fit.  Ended up with Asics.

2013-01-20 10:08 PM
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Subject: RE: Gary's Mentor Group - Closed for Training
sspicer - 2013-01-20 9:06 PM

I start my run training tomorrow.  I purchased new running shoes this last weekend at a local running store in Houston called Fleet Feet.  The guys in there were great and wanted to make sure that I had a good fit.  Ended up with Asics.

Fleet feet is a chain but a very good one depending upon the owner of each store.  I have bought many shoes from our local FF and the owner helps put on several tris and a few running races in the area.  Which Asics did you get?  I run in the 21x0's(started with the 2140's and currently have the 2170's).

2013-01-20 10:59 PM
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Subject: RE: Gary's Mentor Group - Closed for Training
GaryRM - 2013-01-20 10:08 PM
sspicer - 2013-01-20 9:06 PM

I start my run training tomorrow.  I purchased new running shoes this last weekend at a local running store in Houston called Fleet Feet.  The guys in there were great and wanted to make sure that I had a good fit.  Ended up with Asics.

Fleet feet is a chain but a very good one depending upon the owner of each store.  I have bought many shoes from our local FF and the owner helps put on several tris and a few running races in the area.  Which Asics did you get?  I run in the 21x0's(started with the 2140's and currently have the 2170's).

Ya know, I have no clue which model number I have.  It is a stability shoe and there are soooo many numbers on the box Smile.  They are called Gel-NOOSA Tri 8 and the only 4 digit number is 9990.

2013-01-21 11:45 AM
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Subject: RE: Gary's Mentor Group - Closed for Training
Well finally got a good brick in yesterday. Got 10.2 miles on the bike and 4.3 on the run. Got it all done in 1 hr 23mins. I think I could have gone a little more on my run but kids got home. It felt amazing to finally get a good ride and a good run in. Short runs are still good but I don't feel like I get anywhere with them. I'm sure I do but just don't feel it.


2013-01-22 6:49 AM
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Subject: RE: Gary's Mentor Group - Closed for Training
Brett's - 2013-01-21 6:45 AM Well finally got a good brick in yesterday. Got 10.2 miles on the bike and 4.3 on the run. Got it all done in 1 hr 23mins. I think I could have gone a little more on my run but kids got home. It felt amazing to finally get a good ride and a good run in. Short runs are still good but I don't feel like I get anywhere with them. I'm sure I do but just don't feel it.
2013-01-22 6:49 AM
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Subject: RE: Gary's Mentor Group - Closed for Training

We got some nice weather here, so I got brave and took the bike off the trainer and clipped in for a quick 7 mile ride.  It went very well and did wonders for my confidence on the road. One of bigger concerns was getting in and out of the clips without shredding my knee and it wopund up being a complete non-issue.  Of course we went into a deep freeze yesterday for the foreseeable future, so its back to the trainer.



Edited by Patman99 2013-01-22 6:57 AM
2013-01-22 6:54 AM
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Subject: RE: Gary's Mentor Group - Closed for Training

Brett's - 2013-01-21 6:45 AM Well finally got a good brick in yesterday. Got 10.2 miles on the bike and 4.3 on the run. Got it all done in 1 hr 23mins. I think I could have gone a little more on my run but kids got home. It felt amazing to finally get a good ride and a good run in. Short runs are still good but I don't feel like I get anywhere with them. I'm sure I do but just don't feel it.

Very cool!  Every little bit helps!

  I managed to do my version of a brick indoors yesterday, 11.25 on the bike trainer inn 34 minutes, followe by a 2.5 mile run/fast walk in 34 minutes.  Considering I'm still only 6 weeks out from knee surgery, I'm very happy.  Even better was the fact that I didn't reach for the ibuprofen this morning (the first time since the injury).  Here's hoping they let me back in the pool this week.

2013-01-22 7:35 AM
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Subject: RE: Gary's Mentor Group - Closed for Training
sspicer - 2013-01-20 10:59 PM
GaryRM - 2013-01-20 10:08 PM
sspicer - 2013-01-20 9:06 PM

I start my run training tomorrow.  I purchased new running shoes this last weekend at a local running store in Houston called Fleet Feet.  The guys in there were great and wanted to make sure that I had a good fit.  Ended up with Asics.

Fleet feet is a chain but a very good one depending upon the owner of each store.  I have bought many shoes from our local FF and the owner helps put on several tris and a few running races in the area.  Which Asics did you get?  I run in the 21x0's(started with the 2140's and currently have the 2170's).

Gel Noosa is what I was looking for, the 2170's are just a different Asics shoe.  Let me know how you like them.

Ya know, I have no clue which model number I have.  It is a stability shoe and there are soooo many numbers on the box Smile.  They are called Gel-NOOSA Tri 8 and the only 4 digit number is 9990.

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