Newbz'z summer mentor group is FULL!!!! (Page 98)

Sunday.

doing an easy 3 miles today...then full day off tomorrow.  Maybe just some walking around.

Good luck at the race Sunday. You're gonna smoke the course. I figure you're gonna be faster than you think. No pressure from my race btw. My race is over and its time to move on for me. I have gloated enough over my own race now its gonna be your turn.

Good luck - have a great race!! 

Tri808- Good luck Look forward to reading the RR

thanks everyone.

I look forward to writing the RR.  Just hoping it will have a heroic and happy ending.

While it's not the RR I wanted to write...the race served it's purpose.  Read the details at your leisure...

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=233023


My failure to run 1:50 wasn't so much of a lack of fitness.  More of improper pacing and lack of sufficient rest in the prior 2 weeks.  I honestly think I could have run 1:51 at the worst if I played my cards right...but hindsight is 20/20.

I was hoping to run 1:50 to give myself validation that I could try for a 3:50ish marathon (I ran 1:56 in this half last year on route to a 3:58:32 marathon)...but during the last 3 miles of this race, I forgot what it was like to suffer on the run.  I had flashbacks to last years marathon where I somehow held it together the last 6 miles.  I forgot just how deep I had to dig...and I had nowhere near that amount ot courage today...and I doubt I will for the upcoming marathon as I don't really view it the same way I did last year.

So my goal has been readjusted to simply run sub 4 again.  With increased fitness...I just hope running the same time will be much more enjoyable.

I also realized that if I really do want to run my best marathon...I have to devote more time to it.  Other races this summer clamped down my running time.  And until I can actually devote 6-8 solid months to building a strong base and a strong 18 week program, I think marathons will never be an A race for me.

But that's okay...I'm not a runner...I'm a freak'n triathlete 

Sounds like a decent race regardless of what the final results were for you.  The adrenaline at the start sounds like it caught you a bit but that is usually my trouble too.  The crowd at the start is annoying too.  I have had to deal with that as well and I have gotten out of control trying to move around those people too.  My first HM was very similar.  At mile 3-4 there were people walking 4-5 wide down the course.  Needless to say I was not a happy camper.

Anyway, when is your marathon?  Are you going to have enough time to get some hardcore training in to get the goal down a bit from "sub 4?"  The way you tackled the cycling this past summer, it seems like you could make some gains.

"But that's okay...I'm not a runner...I'm a freak'n triathlete" - That's awesome!  I may add that to my reasons for being old and slow. LOL

Thanks Dirk,

Marathon is Dec 12th.  So I have 2 more big weeks coming up and then tapering down for three weeks.  So basically...my training is where it is.  The only benefit I'll see is that my legs should be 100% unlike today.  I know deep down I could run 3:52ish, but that would take a perfectly executed race and risk blowing up.  For me personally, the satisfaction of running 3:52 isn't enough for me to risk it at this point.  3:49:59...might be...LOL...but I think I proved today that it's just a bit outside my reach.

And like I said...I haven't put my full devotion into this marathon...so that wears on me mentally.  Last year I put in a solid 7 months of training in (before I got into cycling ans swimming), so there was a lot of incentive to give my very best.  This year, I've put in good training...and I've seen improvements...but I'm honestly looking forward to my HIM more than this marathon.  And the demons in my head overwhelm me with reasons why I shouldn't go all out during a half or full marathon...but rightfully so.

Overall though...I'm still pretty happy with my fitness.  This was the first race where I totally blew up my pacing...I basically threw in the towel with 3 miles to go...and I still beat last years time by over a minute.  That's got to count for something....

Great job J! Even though you didn't hit your goal, I still think your story had a happy and heroic ending

I think you've done a great job with the marathon training, especially since you were not able to run for several weeks over the summer. And even with that bump in the road, you've managed to improve your time from last year. So that's awesome!

BTW- I'm probably that slow lady that you and Dirk are trying to run around. So hopefully I don't   annoy too many people during my HM  

I watched the Silverman today. The bike course goes right through my neighborhood. So me and Nico (my 3 year old) walked down the street and cheered for the bikers. I bike this street often and it is bit of a climb, so the bikers were not going by really fast.

 Anyhow, Nico kept yelling "Wow! Look at that guy! He's really fast!" It def put a smile on some of the athlete's faces (I think we were prob right around mile 100 of the course and you could see some people were getting tired). One of the athlete even replied "Why, thank you young man." It was pretty funny. Maybe someday I can do the HIM for this race. You never know?

Edited by jpbis26 2010-11-08 12:05 AM

I am sure you'll be fine.  What happens a lot is people don't place themselves in the correct corral or starting position.  They end up in a corral that has some of the faster runners in it or behind them and it slows them down.  I have only had a couple of problems here but they can be very annoying if I am going for a PR.  Just place yourself (if not assigned a corral) where it looks like you fit in.  You should be able to ask some of the volunteers for some help in this area.

Yeah...just seed yourself properly and it's no big deal.

I was complaining more about the race not having a chip start.  Meaning, in my race, everyone's time started when the gun went off...even if it took you 5 minutes to cross the starting line because you were in the back. 

So I don't blame the slower folks who started up at the front.  Because they have a right to go for an official PR...even if it's 2:45.  If they start at the back...they have no chance as they automatically lose a few minutes.  But if they used a chip start...where your official time starts when you cross the start line...it wouldn't have been as big a problem.

Nice job on your half J.  For some reason every one of my friends who ran a half on Sunday didn't do what they wanted.   It must have been that the planets weren't aligned properly or something. 

Either way man, I'd be pretty happy with that time.  It's faster than your previous half, right?  Is this a PR for you?

agreed with all so far, nice job.

even if things did not go exactly as you'd hoped you learned something, and often its the races that dont go as planned that you learn the most. From those you know waht needs to change for next time, and you eliminate issues each time working towards that perfect race.




I raced my 10k this weekend as part of a team (top 5 in the team across the line count towards total time).

Hard first half of the course, over a long tall bridge and back (the first 3 miles were the out and back over the bridge, 3/4 mile steep uphill, quick down, and turn around and back over for the same hills again) then a winding loop around camden.

ended up with a solid run considering where my training is right now, 37:36 and first for my team. we won the coed team division and placed 2nd overall including the male teams:-)

Yeah...it was a PR...FWIW.  Overall, I'm very happy with my fitness gains in running...but it was just a poorly thought out race plan, and then poorly executed on top of that.  Nothing I can't fix.

But I agree David.  I generally have set reasonable race goals for myself and have always beat them.  So I never did know if I have ever run (or "tri'd") a perfect race yet.  I definately learned from this...and I have to assume that you'll never know if you did your best until you know what it's like to go too hard.

that last bit is it, and one of the many many reasons i try to get people to race shorter some even if they focus on longer stuff.

forget who said it, but the quote: "you'll never know how hard you can go until you've gone too hard"
has a lot of meaning in this, and is much easier to do without killing yourself in shorter events.

If you always play it safe, you may have some great races, but until you actually cross that line of too hard, you'll never know where that line actually is. And putting together that perfect race is all about riding that razors edge between falling apart and being ok.

This is one of the reasons why you see so many high school kids able to run the 5k times they do on the mileage they run. many of them dont really run all that much (30mpw is a pretty common number for normal run of the mill CC kids), but they race a LOT, and they tend to find that edge much sooner than a lot of us.

Push too hard a bit/start too fast a few times, and you'll start to learn what it fees like to A- run close to your max, and B- what the signs of falling apart are (5ks are great for this!).

Just from what you've said, it sounds like the pacing/how you ran it was a bit more of a factor than resting (not to say that would not have helped). That said, i think you did the right thing in not 100% resting/tapering for this, if the marathon is the goal one right now.

I think you'll be in good shape come that marathon, just run it smart. like dirk pointed out in his race, you need ot run your race in something that long, there will be a lot of people that you may be faster than that will pass you and you wont see again until mile 20, or 25.

Yeah...normally I'm really good about running my own race.  That point at where I tried to draft off those two guys was basically a last ditch effort to save my goal time (which I found out was never going to happen either way).  Before I stuck with them, I knew I was in trouble, but I just wasn't sure how much I was supposed to be hurting at the time...and the stiff head wind was killing me.  So I just rolled the dice and obviously lost.

You bring up a good point though about racing shorter distances.  I've never raced an official 5k or 10k stand alone.  And I think learning that "edge" you talk about is just as important as good training when it comes to going after the perfect race.

I  like the discussion about riding that razors edge for racing.  I am really just getting to a place where I am understanding what real racing is like.  During the spring mentor session I watched as a guy trained (microspawn) HARD for his first marathon and learned a lot about racing and training from his logs and questions.  He was pretty hardcore about his run training and it paid off for him. 

For me, racing has been a "almost all out" effort for many of the running races and my first Tri in June.  But this past August 1st at tri-indy I was pretty much done when I hit the finish line.  I had to get off to the side of the finish area and just take a few minutes to catch my breath.  Then I mustered enough energy to walk to the opposite side of the finish to elevate my legs for a few minutes and take a short dip in the water to help with cool down and recover.

But the marathon for me was the first absolute all out effort I have been absolutely sure I had absolutely nothing left.  I found that fine line and crossed it to other side but I have no regrets.

I'll keep looking for that sharp point of the razor for all my races from now on.

On a side note, I put my chocolate lab, Cheyenne, down yesterday.  We have been struggling with her for many months and she finally was ready to go.  She started in April at about 58 lbs. and when we took her to the vet last night she was about 37 lbs.  In the week since we got back from my marathon she ate a total of 3 cups of food.  She was def going down faster and I decided to take her in.  Gonna miss her.  She was a really good dog.  After I got home I left for a 5 mile run and get some thinking time in.

Dirk you bring up a lot of good points.

The best part about all of this is (and this if for all of you), as you get faster, you'll learn how to psuh your body harder, and get more out of it on the same fitness level. Pacing will get better, you'll learn how you react to a faster start, or negative splitting a race, and how hard you can push without blowing up.

On of my old rowing coaches and a guy that's been to the olympics a number of times said in an article a while back "Every erg* test i've ever done, i've lost. We all lose, we lose to time, no matter what, you could have gone faster"

* an Erg is a rowing machine that you do indoor workouts on and do tests with, same as a treadmill or bike on a trainer

He goes on to talk about how knowing you can always go faster opens up a lot of doors to go for things you never thought possible, and that you'll never really hit the wall of i simply cannot go faster.

A lot of people are worried about going too hard, blowing up etc, or pushing too hard past their comfort level in training (not that i'm saying you should all the time). A lot of them seem to be worried about what will happen, but the thing is, it'll hurt a bit, you'll slow down, and thats it, you'll live to race another day. Going out of your comfort zone in training, well, you'll be a bit more tired and sore, but you wont die, the world wont end.

Once you figure all of that out, it opens a lot more doors for you and what your body is capable of doing. If you're smart about it, and keep at it, you'll go a lot further than you thought you'd be able to.





Dirk, Very sorry to hear about the dog, that's never a fun thing to have to go through but it sounds like you made the right choice there.

Dirk...sorry to hear about your dog.  Tough decision...but the right one.

My last three runs went pretty well after my half.  A short 3 mile recovery, a 5 mile easy run, then an 11 mile run yesterday where I started slow and progressively increased speed as my body adjusted.  Ended up pacing about 9:00 miles the last 8 miles and finished strong feeling like I could go farther.

So again...fitness is there...and no injuries or soreness that popped up...so I'm quite happy.  Off day today.  Playing in a company golf tournament which should be fun.  Might jump on the trainer afterwards though.

nice job with the runs.



I'm slowly getting back to the run volume i want,
ended up with 43 miles last week, and will be around 45 this week before building up over the next month and a half to 60 or so.

everything is feeling good so far.

David,

I was trying to sketch out a training plan that would transition me from my marathon to HIM training.  My plan is to take the 3 weeks after my marathon easy...then start up in January.

The problem is that I want to keep my running base of about 30 mpw...but I'm not sure how to accomplish that with adding back my swim and bike focus...and still allowing for at least one "easy" or rest day a week.

I was thinking maybe I should run 4 days a week...one with a easy 3 mile recovery, then two days of 8 and one 10-13 mile long run?  Ideally, I would like to run 5x per week...but it just seems like I would be doing too many double workout days.  I don't mind double workout days...but part of me thinks that I need more rest to see more gains.

Thoughts?

Dirk- Sorry about the dog. I know it's a sad thing to go through

I ran 7 miles yesterday with Jamie and felt good. We will be running a 10K together Nov 20th and then we will do the HM Dec 5. I'm also doing a 5K Thanksgiving day with my dad. So lots of races to look forward too.

This month marks my one year anniversary of getting off the couch and starting to run. Last Nov, I was pushing myself to run for 2 mins without stopping and wondering if I would every be able to run an entire 5K. Kind of a crazy to think that that was just a year ago. 

if you are smart about it, double workout days are really not much of an issue at all.


For some ideas on what a schedule like what you are thinking might look like, check out leegoocrap's training log. He is one of my athletes and currently running 4-6x a week plus a few swim and bike workouts.

His run volume right now is a bit lower but frequency is there, and volumes are coming up.

Dirk - so sorry to hear about your lab - that is a real bummer. my sympathies.

Jamie - that is so awesome!!!  It will be great to see where you are next year in November!!!!  You are a great inspiration to me. March will be my one year anniversary for training for triathlons, I too have come a long way. Amazing!