Just followed a school bus through town... (Page 6)

I don’t know about you but I don’t know anyone who said to themselves “I think I will start to become an alcoholic today”. Most of them started drinking with their buddies, just like their buddies and their buddies never develop a problem. I also don’t know an alcoholic who, when the addiction was developing, said to themselves “gee I’m becoming an alcoholic I’d better stop”. I’m sure there are some just as there are some people who choose to lose the weight at 20 or 30 lbs. By the way you can live your entire life without ever taking another drink. I can also go the rest of my life without eating food ever again but our lifespans will be drastically different. Also, as with alcoholism, making the choice to change is not easy and actually doing it may be the hardest thing you have ever done. Also choosing to change is not a guarantee of success. You may not succeed the first time or the second and some people never succeed. There is no one who knows more than I do about it being a personal choice; I make that choice every day. I don’t berate people who have not been able to make that choice yet because I know how hard it it and what they will have to face.  Do you?  As with your life, my story is long and you have no idea where I have been. Until you have walked with me and tried to understand me reserve your judgment because you don’t know me. That has been my point that others don’t want to hear.

Where you not the one who said it was easy to get a good idea of people's life style from the snapshot pictures of them. This statement from you followed posts such as:

How many adults watch TV, internet etc more than 2 hours a day? I would say the vast majority. It is all about priorities some people rank watching TV and sitting on their A more than cooking decent meals for their kids and kicking a ball around after work or on the weekend.

As for it not being about me you are quite right but I am one of the people you are talking about. My experiences are the ones I am most familiar with and the most comfortable with using, but I am by no means alone. I'm sorry if you thought I was trying to make anything about me, I was just trying to give you a real view of the people that you are talking about. As for your right to restrict my life to fit what you believe is important, as I have said before, your rights end where mine begin. There are costs associated with society that we all bear some times we are beneficiaries sometimes we are not. If you want to help people make better choices then I applaud you and I never said you shouldn't. I was addressing the attitude: "Well if they just...” Things like your post where you imply that people are obese because they are too lazy to go to the store to buy "good" food and would rather just go To McD's. That is judgmental no two ways about it.

Wow you see everything in terms of black and white don't you.  I never said I was the exception I said I am part of a spectrum of people out there and to paint them all with a broad brush is judgmental.  I said to believe that you could tell about a person's life by looking at them and taking a snapshot of that life is being judgmental.  To take a complex problem and say “it's just a matter of X..., fix that then everything would be better, is judgmental. But I guess this is where we disagree I see the obesity problem as a complex one and you see it as a matter of sloth and gluttony.   I am truly sorry you do not wish to pay for the follies of others in this society but that is what it means to be a part of society.  You pay a little extra for the follies of others and we pay a little extra for your follies. 

I just wanted to chime in and say the following:

A.  This thread is great.

and

B. As an economics major I would propose a similar solution that was stated earlier.  Simply Tax the high fat content foods (most fast food establishments) probably 10c on a dollar would be more than enough and then use that money to subsidize healthier foods (example: fruits, vegetables, organicly grown foods, etc).

One additional thought:

We never really had a problem with child obesity until standardize testing forced teachers to cut down recess and PE time in favor of teaching kindergarteners things they probably won't need to know until they enter the work force.  Standardized testing creates a gross incentive for teachers to cut out Physical Education.

Except that higher fat isn't necessarily a bad thing.  Lots of good kinds of fat. 

I don't recall ever saying not to do anything. If you want to do something, go volunteer at your local school. My son’s school has a program where the kids get little feet necklaces for running at recess. See if your local schools have anything like that and go run with the kids. There are many ways of helping people lose weight. May be you could volunteer to help set up nutritional counseling for those who can't afford to see a nutritionist. May be just stop, listen to one person, try to understand what brought them to where they are, and then be there when they need help and support. If it is really an issue to you and not just something to about and say “look how bad those other people are compared to me” then by all means dig in, get your hands dirty and help.

As for "you pay for yours and I'll pay for mine." Seems a lot more fair to me" then there will be no bike lanes unless cyclists pay for them. This is a benefit for all of us but most tax payers will never use them. There are a myriad of things you pay for everyday that you receive no benefit from and things that others pay for that benefit you as a small minority.

Yes, I know.  I love almonds :p  Implementation would be somewhat complex, but it could be done.

Really how long does it take to become an alcoholic?

How long does it take to gain 150 lbs?

So we have now gone from obese to morbidly obese, which usually starts at ~100 lbs overweight. By the way a person who is 5'8'' weighing 200 lbs which is ~40-50 lbs overweight is considered by gov't standards to be obese not 150 lbs. So how long does it take to gain 50 or 60 lbs is a more appropriate measure.

Nowadays people think they can't even let their kids hang out in their own yards unless the parents stare at them the whole time. 35 minutes of PE is nothing compared to 6-7 hours a day of outdoor play.

On this score I agree with you 100% for many more reasons than how it applies to obesity but that is an entirely different discussion

My point exactly.

According to you, I know plenty of people who live healthy lifestyles that have never gotten on a bike and never will. I know plenty of people who if you asked them to voluntarily give up their tax dollars so you can ride they would tell you no.

So no one should live in New Orleans ever again because the insurance costs for hurricane losses are offset the same way. There will be no one living on barrier reefs, no one living in the mountains (forest fires you know). We pay higher insurance premiums because young men are reckless drivers so how shall we address that? Are you saying there is nothing you do that puts you at greater risk for medical injury. Look at the injury subfolder in this forum may be triathletes should be subjected to DISINCENTIVES for leading a lifestyle that disproportionately (than say needlepoint and Tai Chi) leads to injury. So again we subsidize your follies and you subsidize ours.

Uninsured vs. obese are two different issues and to lump them together is nothing more than a red herring.

Alright look there are two different issues going on here.

A)     The first issue is whether or not some of the comments posted were judgmental; I by no means ever said all comments.  There are no easy answers to complex questions be it alcoholism or obesity. But judging people on the way they look is still judging people, even if that judgment is socially acceptable.  There are plenty of people on these boards who have started the journey but are not there yet.  These are some of the people you are judging by how they look, and you are wrong.

B)     The second issue is should obese people be penalized.  Do not make a mistake here we are not talking about penalizing people for an unhealthy lifestyle.  Why don’t you ask some of the docs on the boards about the studies of overweight but active people vs. normal weight inactive people and who is healthier.  There are plenty of people who lead unhealthy lifestyles who are not obese and you are not talking about penalizing them.  You are talking about penalizing a group of people for how they look.  All I have really said on that score is beware the slippery slope you want to walk down, next time it may be you they come for.

I am sorry I didn’t know there was a point I was supposed to back down in order to remain popular.  May be I should just stick to the Athena/ Clyde boards and not come play with the big boys till I learn the rules.

Rule 1: Don't buck the popular opinion.

Since it bothers you I will leave it alone

Have a nice day

I've been gone for a week and just read through all the pages.

Here is my take.  By taking a snapshot of someone, it is a moment in time.  Yes, that moment may be incorrect, but it's just that... a moment.  You can never know someone from a brief glance.  But you can take that moment and combine it with the knowlege you have an get a best guess.  You said, "These are some of the people you are judging by how they look, and you are wrong".  I disagree..he may be wrong in one instance, but not always.  We're discussing generalities here.

Also, you keep mentioning, "The Look".  I'm sorry, but there is only one person that determines if "the look" affects them.  The person that is apprarently receiving the look.  There is no difference between a 'skinny' person looking at a 'fat' person thinking, "If only they ate less and exercised more" and a 'fat' person looking at a 'skinny' person thinking, "it's so easy for them"  Guess what?  BOTH ARE WRONG 

I've been on the receiving end of 'the look' more times than I care.  And yes, I have given the look too.  But along the same vein, I have more respect for the overwight person attempting to do something about it than the skinny person who doesn't care about their body.

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that it takes a long time to become obese.  And it takes a long time to reverse that.  You can't gain X pounds over 10 yrs and then get upset that it doesn't come off in 10 weeks.  I understand that it's a long process.  It's no different than going from the couch to an Ironman.

If I had decided when I had to walk half of my first 400 meter swim...that's right...walk to quit, I would not be an Ironman today.  It IS a long journey.  But you have to stay positive, use your resources and if no one will encourage you, encourage yourself.  It's not easy.  Nothing worth doing ever is.

Serious question:  How was your test?