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McCain "Knows" How To Get Bin Laden? (Page 2)
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 2008-10-08 4:13 PM in reply to: #1728346 |
 Mountain View, CA |  Subject: RE: McCain "Knows" How To Get Bin Laden?triturn - 2008-10-08 2:08 PM puellasolis - 2008-10-08 3:38 PM triturn - 2008-10-08 1:33 PM McCain has for 3 combat brigades to be sent to Afghanistan and for Afghan Army forces to be doubled to 160,000. He also says the improving security situation in Iraq a blueprint for success in Afghanistan. "Sen. Obama will tell you we can't win in Afghanistan without losing in Iraq. In fact, he has it exactly backwards. It is precisely the success of the surge in Iraq that shows us the way to succeed in Afghanistan. I know how to win wars. And if I'm elected president, I will turn around the war in Afghanistan, just as we have turned around the war in Iraq, with a comprehensive strategy for victory." McCain's experience as a military man is precisely why he is more qualified to get Bin Laden. I seriously doubt that Obama studied military history, tactics, and war strategy while at Harvard or on the job as a community organizer. McCain has spent a lifetime studying and implementing things while at the Academy, in war, and while in the Senate. Didn't General McKiernan say that the surge principles that were applied in Iraq can't be applied as such in Afghanistan? "Afghanistan is not Iraq," said Gen. David D. McKiernan, who led ground forces during the 2003 Iraq invasion and took over four months ago as head of the NATO-led coalition in Afghanistan. (link)Speaking in Washington yesterday, McKiernan described Afghanistan as "a far more complex environment than I ever found in Iraq." The country's mountainous terrain, rural population, poverty, illiteracy, 400 major tribal networks and history of civil war all make for unique challenges, he said. "The word I don't use for Afghanistan is 'surge,' " McKiernan stressed, saying that what is required is a "sustained commitment" to a counterinsurgency effort that could last many years and would ultimately require a political, not military, solution. The surge strategy is more than just an increase in troops. It's a dedicated effort to stabilize a situation while the local forces (160,000 Afghanis) are trained and deployed. It also uses local tribes and militias to counter the enemy wherever possible. It would also require NATO forces to actually take on some offensive roles in the area. Plus, the 3 additional US Brigades will help. I understand that we need more than just an increase in the number of troops. My point wasn't about the specifics of the strategy, it was that the top US guy in Afghanistan seems to disagree with what McCain's saying about what we need and what will work best in Afghanistan. |
| 2008-10-08 4:14 PM in reply to: #1728228 |
Extreme Veteran  500 On the road...somewhere | Subject: RE: McCain "Knows" How To Get Bin Laden? SweetK - 2008-10-08 3:39 PM triturn - 2008-10-08 4:33 PM McCain has for 3 combat brigades to be sent to Afghanistan and for Afghan Army forces to be doubled to 160,000. He also says the improving security situation in Iraq a blueprint for success in Afghanistan. "Sen. Obama will tell you we can't win in Afghanistan without losing in Iraq. In fact, he has it exactly backwards. It is precisely the success of the surge in Iraq that shows us the way to succeed in Afghanistan. I know how to win wars. And if I'm elected president, I will turn around the war in Afghanistan, just as we have turned around the war in Iraq, with a comprehensive strategy for victory." McCain's experience as a military man is precisely why he is more qualified to get Bin Laden. I seriously doubt that Obama studied military history, tactics, and war strategy while at Harvard or on the job as a community organizer. McCain has spent a lifetime studying and implementing things while at the Academy, in war, and while in the Senate. Ok...and all that, so we've been wasting how many years in Iraq when Bin Laden is clearly in Afganistan. If I recall, McCain wasn't the smartest tack in his class at the Academy - got bad grades and did his own thing - barely graduated (if it wasn't for his Admiral daddy) and would be a family embarrassment. He didn't do so good in school and is known for not following orders - so how does being reckless make him more qualified to get Bin Laden when he agreed with the other "idiots" to go into Iraq? You seem fascinated by McCain's class rank at USNA. Is the person who finishes an IM in 15 hrs less of an Ironman than one who finishes in 10? Regardless of scores, HE GRADUATED WHILE BEING EXPOSED TO 4 YEARS of military history, tactics and experience. Not to mention a bit of OJT. Where did Obama learn his brilliant military strategy? South side Chicago? |
| 2008-10-08 4:17 PM in reply to: #1727138 |
Pro 3906   St Charles, IL | Subject: RE: McCain "Knows" How To Get Bin Laden? Have you been to the South Side of Chicago?!  |
| 2008-10-08 4:22 PM in reply to: #1728383 |
| Mountain View, CA | Subject: RE: McCain "Knows" How To Get Bin Laden? coredump - 2008-10-08 2:17 PM Have you been to the South Side of Chicago?! Now *that's* funny. And I say that as a former resident of the South Side. |
| 2008-10-08 4:25 PM in reply to: #1728400 |
Champion 15211 Southern Chicago Suburbs, IL | Subject: RE: McCain "Knows" How To Get Bin Laden? puellasolis - 2008-10-08 4:22 PM coredump - 2008-10-08 2:17 PM Have you been to the South Side of Chicago?! Now *that's* funny. And I say that as a former resident of the South Side.Sout saiiide. Go Sox. DOH! |
| 2008-10-08 5:00 PM in reply to: #1728262 |
Expert 1603 Westchester, NY | Subject: RE: McCain "Knows" How To Get Bin Laden? scoobysdad - 2008-10-08 4:51 PM Fatdoggy - 2008-10-08 3:37 PM Why are you assuming that the only way to get bin Laden if by deploying more troops to Afghanistan? My take is that what John McCain is implying, but would never say publicly so as to p*ss off the Pakistan people, is that he would send in a small contingent of special forces to find and kill bin Laden when they have intelligence indicating where he is in the Pakistan mountains. If you saw this week's "60 Minutes" you would have learned that this is how they already got very close to nailing him and likely injured him. It would be done with the silent complicity of the Pakistan government, but without the knowledge of the Pakistan people, who would not stand for such a mission by a foreign entity. That's why he criticized Obama for saying we should just go in and do it, whether Pakistan would agree to it or not, as a politically clumsy way to achieve the same outcome. triturn - 2008-10-08 4:33 PM McCain has for 3 combat brigades to be sent to Afghanistan and for Afghan Army forces to be doubled to 160,000. He also says the improving security situation in Iraq a blueprint for success in Afghanistan. "Sen. Obama will tell you we can't win in Afghanistan without losing in Iraq. In fact, he has it exactly backwards. It is precisely the success of the surge in Iraq that shows us the way to succeed in Afghanistan. I know how to win wars. And if I'm elected president, I will turn around the war in Afghanistan, just as we have turned around the war in Iraq, with a comprehensive strategy for victory." McCain's experience as a military man is precisely why he is more qualified to get Bin Laden. I seriously doubt that Obama studied military history, tactics, and war strategy while at Harvard or on the job as a community organizer. McCain has spent a lifetime studying and implementing things while at the Academy, in war, and while in the Senate. I do not have that lifetime of studying war either, so maybe you could tell me where McCain thinks he is going to get the troops to increase our presence in Afghanistan while we are still in Iraq? Will he be pulling them out of the same cave he knows Bin Laden is hiding in? Or are you suggesting McCain thinks we should wait until we are "done" in Iraq before we redeploy troops to Afghanistan? Regardless, the point of my original post was that this was a ridiculous statement for McCain to make. I'm not assuming anything. I was responding to the previous person's response, which had little to do with my original post. The truth is McCain does not have some "Secret" Knowledge" which equips him to "find Bin Laden." |
| 2008-10-08 5:19 PM in reply to: #1728601 |
Champion 6056 Menomonee Falls, WI | Subject: RE: McCain "Knows" How To Get Bin Laden? Fatdoggy - 2008-10-08 5:00 PM scoobysdad - 2008-10-08 4:51 PM Fatdoggy - 2008-10-08 3:37 PM Why are you assuming that the only way to get bin Laden if by deploying more troops to Afghanistan? My take is that what John McCain is implying, but would never say publicly so as to p*ss off the Pakistan people, is that he would send in a small contingent of special forces to find and kill bin Laden when they have intelligence indicating where he is in the Pakistan mountains. If you saw this week's "60 Minutes" you would have learned that this is how they already got very close to nailing him and likely injured him. It would be done with the silent complicity of the Pakistan government, but without the knowledge of the Pakistan people, who would not stand for such a mission by a foreign entity. That's why he criticized Obama for saying we should just go in and do it, whether Pakistan would agree to it or not, as a politically clumsy way to achieve the same outcome. triturn - 2008-10-08 4:33 PM McCain has for 3 combat brigades to be sent to Afghanistan and for Afghan Army forces to be doubled to 160,000. He also says the improving security situation in Iraq a blueprint for success in Afghanistan. "Sen. Obama will tell you we can't win in Afghanistan without losing in Iraq. In fact, he has it exactly backwards. It is precisely the success of the surge in Iraq that shows us the way to succeed in Afghanistan. I know how to win wars. And if I'm elected president, I will turn around the war in Afghanistan, just as we have turned around the war in Iraq, with a comprehensive strategy for victory." McCain's experience as a military man is precisely why he is more qualified to get Bin Laden. I seriously doubt that Obama studied military history, tactics, and war strategy while at Harvard or on the job as a community organizer. McCain has spent a lifetime studying and implementing things while at the Academy, in war, and while in the Senate. I do not have that lifetime of studying war either, so maybe you could tell me where McCain thinks he is going to get the troops to increase our presence in Afghanistan while we are still in Iraq? Will he be pulling them out of the same cave he knows Bin Laden is hiding in? Or are you suggesting McCain thinks we should wait until we are "done" in Iraq before we redeploy troops to Afghanistan? Regardless, the point of my original post was that this was a ridiculous statement for McCain to make. I'm not assuming anything. I was responding to the previous person's response, which had little to do with my original post. The truth is McCain does not have some "Secret" Knowledge" which equips him to "find Bin Laden." I don't think HE would say he does. But I bet he believes the way to get it done is to put Special Forces on the ground with the silent complicity of the Pakistan government (read: people gots to get PAID, yo!) Seems to be a smarter approach than telling the Pakistan government and people, "Yeah, we're gone bomb the beejeezus out of your country whether you like it or not until we get our man!", don't you think? McCain said he knew HOW to get bin Laden (tacticly), he never claimed "Secret Knowledge" as to WHERE he is. |
| 2008-10-08 5:25 PM in reply to: #1727138 |
Runner | Subject: RE: McCain "Knows" How To Get Bin Laden? I don't care. Bin Laden is not the problem anymore. If you want to deal with the hydra, you don't just randomly hack off its heads; you have to approach the source of its strength. In this case, what we need to do is encourage the moderates in the mosques. They are the ones who can stop the extremists by teaching the people. Sure, military force is useful for certain things. But it needs to be coupled with humanitarian, economic, and political support as well. You wanna get Bin Laden? You go into the tribal regions, and convince the tribesmen that you're going to help them, you're going to bring them what they want, and their support for the extremists is misguided. You do that by getting on the ground, working the people, finding out what they want, and delivering on your promises. That's how you get the job done. |
| 2008-10-08 5:25 PM in reply to: #1727138 |
Extreme Veteran 499 Racine WI | Subject: RE: McCain "Knows" How To Get Bin Laden? It seems pretty obvious to me that after 7 + years of looking for BL, I dont think that anyone "knows" how to get him. If we get him, it will just be dumb luck, or someone on the BL side either gets p*ssed or money hungry. Otherwise, he'll die and turn to dust in those montains as a wanted man. |
| 2008-10-08 5:32 PM in reply to: #1728642 |
| Mountain View, CA | Subject: RE: McCain "Knows" How To Get Bin Laden? Scout7 - 2008-10-08 3:25 PM I don't care. Bin Laden is not the problem anymore. If you want to deal with the hydra, you don't just randomly hack off its heads; you have to approach the source of its strength. In this case, what we need to do is encourage the moderates in the mosques. They are the ones who can stop the extremists by teaching the people. Sure, military force is useful for certain things. But it needs to be coupled with humanitarian, economic, and political support as well. You wanna get Bin Laden? You go into the tribal regions, and convince the tribesmen that you're going to help them, you're going to bring them what they want, and their support for the extremists is misguided. You do that by getting on the ground, working the people, finding out what they want, and delivering on your promises. That's how you get the job done. x100. |
| 2008-10-08 5:35 PM in reply to: #1728658 |
Runner | Subject: RE: McCain "Knows" How To Get Bin Laden? |
| 2008-10-08 5:49 PM in reply to: #1728628 |
Expert 1603 Westchester, NY | Subject: RE: McCain "Knows" How To Get Bin Laden? scoobysdad - 2008-10-08 6:19 PM Fatdoggy - 2008-10-08 5:00 PM I don't think HE would say he does. But I bet he believes the way to get it done is to put Special Forces on the ground with the silent complicity of the Pakistan government (read: people gots to get PAID, yo!) Seems to be a smarter approach than telling the Pakistan government and people, "Yeah, we're gone bomb the beejeezus out of your country whether you like it or not until we get our man!", don't you think? scoobysdad - 2008-10-08 4:51 PM Fatdoggy - 2008-10-08 3:37 PM Why are you assuming that the only way to get bin Laden if by deploying more troops to Afghanistan? My take is that what John McCain is implying, but would never say publicly so as to p*ss off the Pakistan people, is that he would send in a small contingent of special forces to find and kill bin Laden when they have intelligence indicating where he is in the Pakistan mountains. If you saw this week's "60 Minutes" you would have learned that this is how they already got very close to nailing him and likely injured him. It would be done with the silent complicity of the Pakistan government, but without the knowledge of the Pakistan people, who would not stand for such a mission by a foreign entity. That's why he criticized Obama for saying we should just go in and do it, whether Pakistan would agree to it or not, as a politically clumsy way to achieve the same outcome. triturn - 2008-10-08 4:33 PM McCain has for 3 combat brigades to be sent to Afghanistan and for Afghan Army forces to be doubled to 160,000. He also says the improving security situation in Iraq a blueprint for success in Afghanistan. "Sen. Obama will tell you we can't win in Afghanistan without losing in Iraq. In fact, he has it exactly backwards. It is precisely the success of the surge in Iraq that shows us the way to succeed in Afghanistan. I know how to win wars. And if I'm elected president, I will turn around the war in Afghanistan, just as we have turned around the war in Iraq, with a comprehensive strategy for victory." McCain's experience as a military man is precisely why he is more qualified to get Bin Laden. I seriously doubt that Obama studied military history, tactics, and war strategy while at Harvard or on the job as a community organizer. McCain has spent a lifetime studying and implementing things while at the Academy, in war, and while in the Senate. I do not have that lifetime of studying war either, so maybe you could tell me where McCain thinks he is going to get the troops to increase our presence in Afghanistan while we are still in Iraq? Will he be pulling them out of the same cave he knows Bin Laden is hiding in? Or are you suggesting McCain thinks we should wait until we are "done" in Iraq before we redeploy troops to Afghanistan? Regardless, the point of my original post was that this was a ridiculous statement for McCain to make. I'm not assuming anything. I was responding to the previous person's response, which had little to do with my original post. The truth is McCain does not have some "Secret" Knowledge" which equips him to "find Bin Laden." You're not saying Obama has said this, are you?
McCain said he knew HOW to get bin Laden (tacticly), he never claimed "Secret Knowledge" as to WHERE he is. No, but some who are defending the statement I've qu0ted are saying his experience in the service give him knowledge others do not have to "get the job done." I disagree. In fact, I'm fairly confident that others who have as much experience and military knowledge, if not more, then McCain have been trying to find him for the last several years. |
| 2008-10-08 5:52 PM in reply to: #1728658 |
Expert 1603 Westchester, NY | Subject: RE: McCain "Knows" How To Get Bin Laden? puellasolis - 2008-10-08 6:32 PM Scout7 - 2008-10-08 3:25 PM x100.I don't care. Bin Laden is not the problem anymore. If you want to deal with the hydra, you don't just randomly hack off its heads; you have to approach the source of its strength. In this case, what we need to do is encourage the moderates in the mosques. They are the ones who can stop the extremists by teaching the people. Sure, military force is useful for certain things. But it needs to be coupled with humanitarian, economic, and political support as well. You wanna get Bin Laden? You go into the tribal regions, and convince the tribesmen that you're going to help them, you're going to bring them what they want, and their support for the extremists is misguided. You do that by getting on the ground, working the people, finding out what they want, and delivering on your promises. That's how you get the job done. And the candidate advocating this approach (Obama) is IMO more suited to being successful at it then the so called expert going on Letterman and singing "Bomb Iran." |
| 2008-10-08 5:53 PM in reply to: #1728678 |
Runner | Subject: RE: McCain "Knows" How To Get Bin Laden? As I demonstrated, there's a vast difference between knowing how to get it done, and accomplishing the task. I know how to get Bin Laden. Getting that done is much more difficult. In this case, however, I do think a certain understanding of how the military works and its capabilities comes into play here. |
| 2008-10-08 5:54 PM in reply to: #1728685 |
Runner | Subject: RE: McCain "Knows" How To Get Bin Laden? Fatdoggy - 2008-10-08 6:52 PM puellasolis - 2008-10-08 6:32 PM Scout7 - 2008-10-08 3:25 PM x100.I don't care. Bin Laden is not the problem anymore. If you want to deal with the hydra, you don't just randomly hack off its heads; you have to approach the source of its strength. In this case, what we need to do is encourage the moderates in the mosques. They are the ones who can stop the extremists by teaching the people. Sure, military force is useful for certain things. But it needs to be coupled with humanitarian, economic, and political support as well. You wanna get Bin Laden? You go into the tribal regions, and convince the tribesmen that you're going to help them, you're going to bring them what they want, and their support for the extremists is misguided. You do that by getting on the ground, working the people, finding out what they want, and delivering on your promises. That's how you get the job done. And the candidate advocating this approach (Obama) is IMO more suited to being successful at it then the so called expert going on Letterman and singing "Bomb Iran." I'm a candidate? Cool. This Overlord kick could really take off yet. What I wrote is my own idea. And it probably does involve bombing things. |
| 2008-10-08 6:30 PM in reply to: #1728198 |
| Houston | Subject: RE: McCain "Knows" How To Get Bin Laden? triturn - 2008-10-08 3:33 PM McCain has for 3 combat brigades to be sent to Afghanistan and for Afghan Army forces to be doubled to 160,000. He also says the improving security situation in Iraq a blueprint for success in Afghanistan. "Sen. Obama will tell you we can't win in Afghanistan without losing in Iraq. In fact, he has it exactly backwards. It is precisely the success of the surge in Iraq that shows us the way to succeed in Afghanistan. I know how to win wars. And if I'm elected president, I will turn around the war in Afghanistan, just as we have turned around the war in Iraq, with a comprehensive strategy for victory." McCain's experience as a military man is precisely why he is more qualified to get Bin Laden. I seriously doubt that Obama studied military history, tactics, and war strategy while at Harvard or on the job as a community organizer. McCain has spent a lifetime studying and implementing things while at the Academy, in war, and while in the Senate. Flying plains and getting shot down does not make you a strategic genius. Might as well say GW's time in the National Guard as a pilot makes him an excellent military commander... |
| 2008-10-08 6:34 PM in reply to: #1728777 |
Runner | Subject: RE: McCain "Knows" How To Get Bin Laden? pengy - 2008-10-08 7:30 PM Flying plains and getting shot down does not make you a strategic genius. Might as well say GW's time in the National Guard as a pilot makes him an excellent military commander... This is true. But the education received from a military academy gives you a little more exposure to strategy than one received elsewhere. |
| 2008-10-08 6:39 PM in reply to: #1728792 |
| Houston | Subject: RE: McCain "Knows" How To Get Bin Laden? Scout7 - 2008-10-08 6:34 PM pengy - 2008-10-08 7:30 PM Flying plains and getting shot down does not make you a strategic genius. Might as well say GW's time in the National Guard as a pilot makes him an excellent military commander... This is true. But the education received from a military academy gives you a little more exposure to strategy than one received elsewhere. But as you said yourself, Afghanistan is not entirely about military presence. In fact, it is more about diplomacy and nation building. A captain in the navy is not exactly a tactician, especially one that flies who would be trained more on aviation than land troops... |
| 2008-10-08 6:39 PM in reply to: #1727138 |
Expert 892 | Subject: RE: McCain "Knows" How To Get Bin Laden? |
| 2008-10-08 6:43 PM in reply to: #1728807 |
Runner | Subject: RE: McCain "Knows" How To Get Bin Laden? pengy - 2008-10-08 7:39 PM Scout7 - 2008-10-08 6:34 PM But as you said yourself, Afghanistan is not entirely about military presence. In fact, it is more about diplomacy and nation building. A captain in the navy is not exactly a tactician, especially one that flies who would be trained more on aviation than land troops...pengy - 2008-10-08 7:30 PM Flying plains and getting shot down does not make you a strategic genius. Might as well say GW's time in the National Guard as a pilot makes him an excellent military commander... This is true. But the education received from a military academy gives you a little more exposure to strategy than one received elsewhere. I understand this. Generally speaking, it doesn't matter one way or another. The President shouldn't do much more than say "This is the objective". There are generals and colonels and captains that make it actually happen. Besides, for my suggestion to work, it would require Congress to get on board. I don't see that happening. |
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