Consider avoiding overhead presses (Page 2)

Myself being a former personal trainer and recreational bodybuilder, I can agree with a lot that has been spoken on this thread.  Injuries, a vast majority of the time, are from poor form and too heavy a weight. Quite frankly if you are using an appropriate weight with strict movement and control an injury is an unbelievable freak occurence.

If you have control through the entire range of motion and can complete a full set of repititions odds are extremely high that there is not going to be an injury from that set that is going to hinder your use of that muscle or related joint.

When you have to drop the weight itself, change form, use other muscles to get through, (grunting, rocking, bouncing, shaking and so on) injury is seconds away.
I have been doing upright rows with a pair of dumbells, and doing a nice controlled clean and snatch from the floor with a dumbell for my shoulders, and am finding my swim getting easier, and my arms and shoulders lasting much longer for me in the pool. I am doing a moderate weight with extreme control through the entire range of motion and complete 12 reps or more a set.

As endurance atheltes do we not pride ourselves in our abilities to take the right step, the proper stroke or maintain the perfect cadence in our disciplines over long periods of time and not cause injury.  Weight lifting can and should be practiced in the same regard. Paying close attention to detail, thinking through the exercise, isolating the movement, maintaining form and posture and getting everything out of the movement.  WIth that mentallity I was always able through my career to keep my clients injury free. 

Wow there are so many different topics on this thread I'm not sure where to start.  Well, here goes.  OP quoted a Mike Boyle interview.  The strength and conditioning forums are pretty much split on this topic of overhead lifts for overhead athletes.  The safe way to go is to avoid them completely - it is possible to train muscles in a position that avoids subacromial impingement (this is the most common problem and will cause a plethora of injuries, including bursitis and rotator cuff tears).  The other school says that if you are going to perform a certain motion in competition (throwing a baseball/football, serving a tennis ball), then you better train your body to get used to it.  Like so many BTers say, if you want to get fast on the bike, ride more, and if you want to run faster, run more.  It's a philosophical question really - do you train for performance no matter what, or do you train and make sure you don't get injured.  There's no right answer.  

Second, saying that most people who get injured while lifting do so because of poor form and too much weight is only partially correct.  It may be do to ok form with an appropriate weight, performed too many times over a period of months or years.  RC injuries, especially in those older than 40 with no history of acute trauma, are due to degenerative changes in the RC tendons and not to one days worth of lifting.  

As for upright rows, I personally can't do em.  But I can do 2 or 3 different exercises that target the same muscles.  But if you can, you better use an EZ curl bar, bc a straight bar is going to play havoc with your wrists at some point or another.  


Oh, and here's a crazy example for you.  I know a guy who had shoulder pain with no trauma.  Competitive natural bodybuilder who was very strict with his form.  Eventually diagnosed with a rotator cuff muscle that hypertrophied so much it was too large for the shoulder girdle and was getting pinched.  So the idea that perfect form will avoid injury may just not be the answer either.  

I'm gonna add to what chunta said in the post before.. As I said form is everything, well weight is second after that.

First you need to get the lifting form correctly before you stepped up the weight. Analyze your movement by doing it in front of the mirror, have it tape to be viewed later. Do it in slow and controlled manner, feel which muscle is being worked.

After you feel that you can do it with your eyes shut, then increase the weight. This is where A LOT of beginner lifter made the mistake. Once they think they can lift, they have this thoughts of they are superman all of sudden. What you need to learn is gradual increase on the weight.. Say your bench is 185 lb in 6 reps, to increase it to 255 is just ridiculous and asking for injuries!

In the gym, that little plate of 2.5 lb is your best friend, use it!! You are not a pro that lifts hundreds of lb of weight! Always lift with your brain, not your ego.

The safest way to train is by measuring your 1 max rm, which is your maximum strength to lift an amount of weight in 1 repletion. You can check it at http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/betteru2i.htm

Train safe and smart