jesse_d Mentor Group - Closed

Hi! I'd love to join your group as I train for my first sprint tri on May 30. I have never done anything over a 5K, but I'm starting my training in relatively good fitness shape. I have NO idea what to expect, and am following an 8 week training program I found on the web. I would love any and all info. to help me out.

I was a competitive gymnast growing up and a college athlete. After becoming a wife and full-time mom (I am 29 and have 2 year old boy), I have had little time for anything "ambitious". I do most of my biking now with him on the back and my running with him in a jogging stroller. My husband is gone for up to two weeks at a time for work, and we live in a new place with no family/babysitting nearby. I have a two-year-old strapped to me 24/7! LOL I normally work out every day at the gym ( 45 minute runs or interval training, followed by strength work), but TRAINING is a new thing for me. I hope this works out! If I love my first sprint, I'm ready to train for an olympic distance tri. I'm thinking I may need a mother's morning out program!

Hello and Welcome

Cheryl

Christina

Nikki

Michelle

ljnlj 

Carter

Rafael

I closed the group out early just so we can have a nice focused group.

I really look forward to working with everyone. 

If everyone could do the following for me it would really help:

1 –  Which days of the week do you currently work out and what is your workout schedule?  Do you have additional time that could be added if needed?  (This includes how many days a week in each sport (running, biking, swimming.)

2 -  What are your goals and what is your next race?   (Example: August 27^th, a Sprint, and I just want to finish or August 27^th, an OLY, and I want to get top 3 in AG, or whatever your goals might be)/

You should know that I am open 100% of the time to any questions you have.  I don’t have any expectations other that to assist and guide everyone as little or as much as you want.  Please feel free to ask as many questions as you want – and please ask the ones you think are stupid!  I have been through them all a) what do wear for a race b) bathroom stuff, etc.)

Thanks

Jesse

Ljnlj –

You sound like a dedicated and busy mom.  Congrats on doing what you are doing – very impressive.  Do you have a pool at your gym?  If not, where do you practice swimming?

Jesse

Thanks Jesse,

Glad you are feeling better.

Current weekly training: weight 3x a week and cardio 4x a week with 2 of events on weekend. Rest days on Tues, Wed, and Sun

Goal for weekly training: Starting this week

Mon - weights, swimming
Tues - rest
Wed - weights, running (working on this, depends on schedule)
Thurs - spinning class (1 hr)
Fri - weights, poss. running
Sat - 2 of 3 events
Sun - 2 of 3 events

My weakness is swimming and running endurance after a long layoff.  Any suggestion on training plans for swimming.

I am current signed up for a sprint triathlon in July and poss. one in Aug. My goal is to finish in a reasonable time which I know I can and then hopefully longer races. Looking at half IM next year. Wanted to do it this year, but it is the same weekend as the Bike MS.

I added everyone on friends list, so if anyone  has suggestions or advice please let me know.

Hi Jesse,

The flu.. sounds awful! Glad you are feeling better.

I usually workout 5 - 6 days a week. The day off during the week usually adjusts with my work schedule. During the week, I work out at the gym in Boston (no pool) during my lunch - 1hr or so and on the weekend at the Y or outside. Right now, I've been doing bike and run at least twice a week, but swimming only once a week. This is what I have been doing:

Mon - 45 min spinning class
Tues - Brick: 30-45 min bike/ 15-20 min run or 5K run
Wed - Class - 1 hr core workout/muscle conditioning
Thurs - 45 min spinning class / 15 min abs
Fri - yoga/pilates class or 5K run
Sat/ Sun - one day swim 1/2 mile (done in sets and have worked up to 6 sets of 150s); another day run: 5K, bike 1 hr or brick workout.

I will adjust Monday or Tues on whether I biked over the weekend and took Mon or Tues off, so that I am not doing the same event 2 days in a row. I feel better over time with my run. I've only gotten outside once with the bike and did the race course. I am coming along with the swim, but am finding it very challenging.

I don't really have any extra time to workout, as I have a demanding job and don't get home till after 7 and then I take care of my son. This doesn't leave me a lot of me time! I am sure others can relate!!! Like Ljnlj, I am able to get out with the jogging stroller and we bring him to the Y where they will watch him for a few hours.

2. My only tri is scheduled for Aug 29th. A sprint: 1/2 mile S, 12 mile B, 5K R. And my goal right now is to finish it, but I would ideally like to finish with a decent time in my AG. (35-40). I plan to do a few road races (runs) before the tri. So far planning on a 6K in June.

I will be adding others in this group as friends - so any advice or comments is greatly appreciated!

Good Luck everyone!
Michelle

Carter,

It sounds like you have some decent base built in with some longer distance running.

It also sounds like you have ample time to train which is a great advantage in this sport.

Let me start by saying that I may suggest things that have worked for me that may not work for you or that you may not be willing to do and I understand that.  My goal was to become a good Triathlete and so I catered all of my training towards that goal.  Your goal might be to be a decent athlete and then do some triathlons.  That is just something you’ll have to figure out over time.

With that being a couple thoughts come to me when I first looked at your schedule:

You do a lot of weights for a Triathlete    3 days a week in addition to a spinning class.  Before triathlons I used to lift 3 to 4 days a week.  I actually stopped doing all weights over a year ago and don’t regret it a bit.  I am much more defined now and while I can’t bench what I used to feel much better.  I don’t suggest that you up and quit all weights but exchanging some of the weight workouts for SBR (swim, bike, run) might be a good idea.

Here is just one idea/theory as a starting point and maybe we can work on this over time.  Given how much time you have I would try to, as a starting point, run 4 days a week, bike 3 – 4 days a week, and swim 3 times a week.  This would be a great balanced approach and allow you to increase this over time as you prepare for longer distances.

a)      you (not just you) need to make sure that you get your legs used to running.  The joints/ligaments of the knee need to be used to pounding.  This will make recovery a lot easier too.  During my marathon training I actually run 6 days a week.  During tri training I do 5 – 6 days a week.  But, I think 4 days of consistent training is a good starting poing.

b)      I think there are staples of a program.  Every person should do the basics, which for me, consists of,  1 distance, 1 speed, and one recovery session per week in each sport.   I’ll elaborate on this more in detail later.

So, a potential schedule, given what you have laid out above, could be”

(Just an example on times and so forth – something to work out over time)

Mon – swimming (40 min), Base Run (50 min)
Tues - rest
Wed – running (tempo) – Bike (depends on schedule)
Thurs - spinning class (1 hr), weights
Fri – running (long run)
Sat – swim - bike (distance depends on time)
Sun – swim - run (distance depends on time)

I think your goals are reasonable and the increased distance of HIM will be attainable as well as you tweak your schedule to allow for more SBR.

Michelle,

I think your schedule is pretty good really.

Comments/Thoughts/Questions:

1)      We need to work on your swim    You mentioned a swim team background.  What does this consist of?  What can you do right now in the pool?  I mean like can you swim 500M pretty easy.  Do you know what your 100M time is, etc.?  If you don’t know any of this that is fine…

2)      I would say we just need to tweak your schedule just a bit.

3)      I like the spin class idea considering your constraints.

4)      It seems like to reach your goal we need to do the following

a.       Work on stretching out your long ride just a bit.

b.      Work on stretching out your long run past 5k.

c.       Get your swim really cranking.

I have an office lunch right now but will post some additional thoughts when I get back.

Regards,

Jesse 

I definitely agree that I need to do more SBR. I’m just so accustomed to lifting a lot. I really need help in swimming. I have very little endurance. Bike and run I am good at just need to put in more time. Any training ideas for swimming. Sat – Mon are days I can usually spend 2+ hrs training. Tues are off days and Wed-Fri about 1 hr – 1.5 hr avail for training. Depends on wife’s schedule also. I have not set training plan so any ideas from anyone will be welcome.

Carter:

Ok, that helps to know your time constraints.

On swimming (for Carter or anyone) – if you have a video of yourself I’ll be happy to look at it.  If you don’t I think it would be a great idea to have a video taken.  They are pretty inexpensive.  The way I found someone to do mine was through a coach.  He recommended someone.  So, that might be a good start.  It is extremely beneficial to see yourself under water.  You might think you are doing one thing but really you are doing something completely different.  I got a lot better in swimming by watching a lot of videos of good swimmers and then trying to incorporate one thing at a time from them.

Here are a few beneficial links/suggestion that I have looked at one time or another:

1 – Articles: (Google) look at articles by Terry Laughlin.  You should be able to find quite a few articles.  Read these by incorporate slowly.  There are probably 10 or so really useful ones.

2 – Articles: (Google) How to Master the Top 5 Challenges to Breathing in Freestyle by Kevin Koskella www.triswimcoach.com

3 -  I do recommend coaching with regards to swimming (and I don’t recommend biking or running coaches).  I usually go to coaches when I hit a plateau.  So, I’ll go to a coach.  They’ll give me pointers and tips.  I’ll work on those.  Get better.  Then hit another plateau.  Then I know it is time to see the coach again.  I’ll actually be going to see one after the HIM in a few weeks as I don’t want to do anything to close to a race.

(I’ll post a few of these to the boards as well – the ones I found most useful)

Your cardio in swimming is not bad – your technique is bad.  I mean if you have good cardio outside the pool then you can translate this in the water as well – but you must just be doing something incorrect in the pool.  Speaking in generalities but it could be 1) Not breathing under the water.  You should be exhaling out at an even pace under the water and taking your breathe when you lift head/rotate body.  2) It could be that you are lifting your head up way to much  3) Could be timing issues, etc.

Regards,

Jesse

How to Master the Top 5 Challenges to Breathing in Freestyle
by Kevin Koskella
www.triswimcoach.com

The most common question I hear in the triathlete world about the mysteries of swimming efficiently usually involves something with breathing. In freestyle, it is the first step to get your body position right. Then, for many, you throw in breathing and everything goes haywire! This has to do with lack of balance, using your head instead of your core to breath, and a few other factors.

Here are the top 5 challenges in learning how to breathe in freestyle, along with the remedies on how to get over these:

1. Not Getting Enough Air. There are a couple of reasons this typically happens in freestyle. First, make sure you breathe out all of your air before you rotate to take a breath. When learning, some people try to exhale and inhale while they are rolling to the side for air. There simply is not enough time for this! Your exhalations should only be in the water in the form of bubbles. At first the timing may seem difficult, but eventually you will get used to it. Second, you may be sinking as you breathe. Make sure you are rolling to the side to breathe, and not rotating your head and looking straight up. Practicing the side kicking and shark fin drills, as discussed in The Complete Guide and in the introductory 4-session online clinic you get by signing up for the Tri Swim Coach newsletter will also help you with this challenge.

2. Extended Arm Sinks While Taking a Breath. This is mainly a balance issue. While you breathe to one side, your other arm should be extending. For many swimmers, this extended arm pushes down into the water (elbow drops) and they are sinking while trying to inhale. The side kicking and shark fin drills will also help to improve this. Another drill also discussed in the materials that will help with this challenge is the fist drill, which forces you to not use your hands, therefore improves your balance in the water.

3. Speed is Sacrificed because of a “Pause” While Breathing. A typical scenario is that you feel like you’re cruising along just fine and then you take a breath and it feels like you’ve just lost all your momentum. To remedy this, when you breathe, concentrate first on breathing to the side (as in #1), then on having your mouth parallel to the water, instead of over the water. The latter will take a while to master, but once you do, it will take care of the pause, and improve your speed overall.

4. Difficulty breathing while navigating in a race. You need to look up to see where you are going, and at the same time grab a breath. How can you do both? Start with bilateral breathing (breathing on both sides every 3 strokes). This will help you to see about where you are without lifting your head up as much. When you need to lift your head up to sight, try not to look straight ahead- this will make your hips sink and throw you off balance. Instead, take a quick peek at your target, roll to the side to breath, and bring your head right back down into position.

Carter,

Why not just try substituting one of your weight workouts for a SBR.  And if you see improvements and you want to progress further in tri you may find that you’ll start substituting more.   I would never suggest changing everything at once – and hey – you probably really enjoy the weights     But, I must tell you that you will really have to adjust your schedule when training for the HIM.  You’ll want to get in some long rides (3 hours) and some group rides – but no need to get into that so much now.

The bottom line is you want to finish a sprint and be happy with it.  It sounds like based on your experience you will be able to complete the bike and run with no problem.  But, as I cautioned previously, you’ll really want to work on your swim or you’ll be wiped out by the time you get to the other two.

In general (if we are only considering the Sprint tri) I would recommend something like the following: (I’m going to stretch you to 1.5 the 4 days you mentioned you workout during the week – Hey, I get up at 5:05 every morning J ) 

Obviously there is change time and drive time but I am just considering the actual workout time. 

Mon (1.5 hours) – swimming (40 min), Run (50 min – Middle 15 min at Tempo)
Tues - rest
Wed (1.5 hours) – Run (50 mins) – Weights (So maybe you do some weights – run from Gym – drive back home or get ready at Gym ???)
Thurs (1.5 hours)  - Spinning class (1 hr), Swim (30 mins) If possible.
Fri (1.5 hours) – Run Long (start at 60 min and work your way up) / Weights (30 mins)
Sat (2 hours) –  All bike – Maybe every other week you work in some intervals.
Sun (2 hours) – swim (45 mins) – Run (or maybe tempo bike)

This workout only consists of 2 - 3 bike workouts (depends on Sun).  I would think you need more but at least it includes the ample amount of swims and runs – and keeps your weight workouts.

I know every situation is different regarding where the gym is, if you can run from you gym, if you get ready at the gym for work, etc…

Regards,

Jesse

Jesse,
1. I swam 4 yrs of swim team when I was younger and took classes up to basic rescue. While I am familar with lap swimming, flip turns and drills, it is taking me a while to get there -mostly b/c I only do it once a week. I have a workout plan that I have been following from a book that I have: The Woman Triathlete by Christina Gandolfo. It started with sets of 25M and I have worked my way to 6X150M sets w/ 20 sec RI. Each workout is only a total of 500M, instead I have been doing a full 804ish meters each time. (the race I am doing is a 1/2 mile.) At this time, I don't know how far I can swim b/c I have been doing them as sets.

My 100M time is approx. 2.20 minutes. (maybe a little less)

4a. I did 15 miles on the bike last week. How much should I be doing? I have to admit is was the first time out on the road. And I thought it was a lot more difficult than a spin class. I am using a mountain bike for my race - and had the shop put on road tires and clipless pedals. I just need to get comfortable with it all.

4b. I completely agree on the long run approach. Now that the weather is nice here in Boston - I am able to run outside again. (Don't like the treadmill much) Last fall, I was up to 5 mile runs and that's the most I have ever done.
Thanks for your help!

Cheryl,

Nice to meet you.  Well, you did a tri already so that is great! 

How long is the Timberman Short Race?  Is that another Sprint or an OLY? (Looking back through your post I think you answered this already - that it is a Sprint - just a very important one)

Maybe you can break down for me the days of the week along with how much time you have to devout to each?  For example, "Mondays I have 12 - 12:30 pm and 5 - 6pm)" etc.  Do you have any mornings?

-I think the weekly training schedule will be easy.

-Improve the times should be easy.

-What do you mean comfortable?  Do you mean physically (like your saddle) or just getting better?

-Stronger swimmer – swimming is the toughest to diagnose across the internet but hopefully we’ll get you pointed in the right direction.

- My personal philosophy is that if you running, biking and swimming correctly (with intervals and strength sets) that you won’t feel the need to workout too much.  There are some very good triathletes that do weights and some very good triathletes that don’t.  But, with limited time I would rather have you in the pool (for example) than in the weightroom.  But, again, just my opinion.  Plus, I can give you some great stretch training in the pool that will have your legs and arms burning J

So, let’s start with the schedule and then I’ll give you some easy things to improve for starters.

Question – do you have a computer on your bike for speed?  Do you use a pace watch for running for pace (min/mile)? 

Jesse

Michelle,

First, let me state that you are a great woman from the city of my favorite baseball – the all-time best Boston Red Sox.  I am a proud and faithful fan since my father took me as a young boy in 76’. 

OK – now on to some business.

First, I love the interval sets you are doing.  I do something very similar which is sets of 100M.  When I do intervals though I do them faster than I would do a swim for a tri.  The real purpose of these sets is to get into lactate threshold (where you are breathing rapidly) and to strength train.  If you are not pushing these sets then I am not sure they are really doing you a whole lot of good – what I mean by that is that you don’t want to do these sets at the same speed/pace/effort you could do a normal 500M swim in.  You want to push them.  So, please let me know on this.  I must say though that doing fast intervals or too much swimming without the proper mechanics is pretty self defeating as well.  So, I really want to delve into your mechanics.  In general, unless you are doing 100M sets at around 1:45 – 1:50 then we really need to work on your mechanics first using a lot of drills.  Then work in the intervals and what not.  So, let’s go into mechanics this week. 

Second, on the amount of training time for ½ swim.   A .5 mile swim for your first tri is ambitious.  I think it is quite attainable but it is almost twice as long as the normal .3 for a sprint.  My thought is, at minimum, you will want to do 2 swims a week.  The focus should be a) one swim at equal distance to your tri b) drill sets  c) intervals.  For example, maybe you start in the water and do a 400M (increasing to 700M over time).  This will be your long set.  Then after the 400M you do drills for 20 mins.  Then the next time in the pool you do 200M warm up, 200M drills, then intervals.   Again, some of this depends on your time contraints.

Are you able to get in ANY open water swims?  I believe this will be important.

Jump topic:

You have one very BIG advantage – that your husband is doing this with you.  This means that you guys can bike and run together with baby!  He understands all that you are going through.  And this also means that you’ll be able to, hopefully, trade off some training time with him.  Maybe one day of the week you do an hour workout while he sits and on another day visa versa.

Also, take advantage of the running together with the running stroller.  Maybe you do a 4 mile run where you alternate miles of pushing.

To the others questions:

4a) Preface: I am going to give you a really bad answer on how much should you be doing.  As much as you can!  Haha.  To be honest that is really the correct answer though.  I think many people have the notion that if they can bike as far as their distance they will be okay.  But, in reality you need to bike a lot more so that you come off the bike feeling good.  Same for swimming. 

But, I have a super secret for getting better on the bike.  And this is what helped me the most.  Intervals!  I would start with 2 min intervals.  First, I would get a bike computer if you don’t have one.  Really, you just need something on it with speedometer and the time.  Then you want to warm up for 10 mins, then alternate going as fast as you can for 2 mins, followed by taking it easy for 2 mins.  Do, this for as many sets as time will allow.  Maybe you start with 3 sets then work your way to 5.

I would say your long ride should be 15 miles – where you’ll really start to push the middle miles as time moves on.  I love the spinning classes and hear they are great so I wouldn’t switch them.  If you have a choice then I would bike on the road. 

4b)  For me, the long is vital.  I really build my conditioning from my run.  On off weeks I run 40 – 45 miles.  I have noticed a great correlation between becoming more run fit and how that translates into the other sports.  Definitely, and slowly, move your long run up, up, up…  Please let me know if you need any advice here.

More to come… especially on the swimming...

Jesse

ON SWIMMING –

Ok – from what I gather so far it seems like most people need/want to improve on swimming the most.  Let me give you some tips of things that I have learned or have been passed down to me by coaches.

1 – Swimming is really about balance in the water.  You want your body to be fairly horizontal in the water.  This reduces drag and allows you to go faster.  Well, how do you do this?  You have to do a series of drills to improve your balance in the water.  And over time you will achieve proper positioning.  TIP1 for balance – swim with fins.  When I was first told to swim with fins I was nervous that I would use them as a crutch.  But, really it helped my get the feel of what proper positioning was and it also allowed me to focus on my upper body instead of concentrating on staying afloat.  So, go get some fins.  Make sure they are good fins that fit your feet well.  You don’t want a lot of wiggle room or they will hurt.  I got mine from a coach so I am not sure they are sold – but just look online at some and look at reviews.  You don’t want the kind that strap around your ankle.  Also, the longer the fin the better.

On fin swimming.  You are NOT going to actually move your feet with the fins on.  You are just using them to keep your body in proper position.  Also, highly recommended, you can flip on your back and do dolphin kicks.  This is a great leg strengthening exercise and a great ab workout (for the person that said they do 15 mins of abs – shoot, just do 200M of these and that will be all you’ll need J  ) 

Other balance oriented skills will come from me giving you specific drills catered to you.  So, I hope to get some videos from you guys in due time or just let me know what you think you are lacking.  Everything in the water can pretty much be boiled down to bad balance/technique. 

2 – Using drills.  There are drills for just about everything.  Many of you have races coming up within a few months.  And many of you have limited schedules.  So, it is going to be a tough balance between getting you better by doing drills and the like and getting in enough straight swim time so that you can complete the swim portion of the event.   

As I said previous I would try to have a nice balance between drills, straight swimming, and intervals.  If you are really not that comfortably with swimming that I would rather you focus a majority of the time on drills and straight swimming while incorporating the intervals a little later on once you have the basic technique down.

3 – Arm positioning.  I’ll try to post more video and articles in the next day.  But, the things to remember here are a) You want your arm to extend all the way out in front of you just to the side of your head – you don’t want it crossing over your head.  B) You want to catch the water with your hand and forearm  c) you want to push the water all the way behind you.

THE ABSOLUTE BEST THING YOU CAN DO IS WATCH A BUNCH OF VIDEOS OF PEOPLE (YOUTUBE THANK YOU) AND THEN TRY TO INCORPORATE THE PARTS YOU CAN.

4 – I would not use hand paddles yet.  Feet paddes = yes.  Hand paddles = no. 

5 – Breathing – exhale under the water and let EVERYTHING out and then take a quick breath when you lift your head barely out of the water.  You really only want about ½ of your face out of the water when you take a breath.  You will look like Popeye.  Your mouth will be crooked.  Only one eye will be out of the water.   When you lift more than that out of the water you start having to do crazy things with your body to compensate.

6 – Alternate breathing on ride and left sides.  This is for balance between both sides.  Also, if you are open water you will want to be able to breath on either side.  ONE NOTE – I almost always breathe on just one side (my strong side) in races.  But, in practice (other than intervals) I try to alternate breating.

More later… I have some good vids somewhere so let me try to go find them.

Jesse