How to like running or at least tolerate it

Good post! There are certainly several of us who struggle with this. I have finally made som,e progress and feel a little better about my running, but I appreciate your leading off with a topic like this.

Thanks JayC, I know I could use an 'Intro to Running' article. I've run in the past, but only as cross-training for other sports.

sawyer

JayC,
I am getting to the "tolerance" level, finally. I appreciate your pointed reminders!! I had a coach tell me to use the "marathon shuffle" or as I have heard it called, the airborne shuffle. The thing that has continually surprised me is that I can run and bike, but on race day, almost without fail, I get ITBS in my left knee that is cripplingly painful - this last sprint, it was bearable enough for me to finish the 5K in 36 minutes, but it was excruciating - and I walked some and stopped and stretched. Any input or suggestions? I am doing my little leg exercises and weight workouts and, still, that STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING pain arises.... :-(
Thanks,
Vanessa

Thanks for the tips! Please do write an intro to running article.

I've been following the agressive run program on this website, and I've gotten to the point where I can run for 24 minutes straight (this is a big accomplishment for me!). The problem is that I've done all of my running on the treadmill, and when I tried to run outside for the first time a couple of weeks ago it was awful! I felt like I could hardly run, my chest hurt, my legs hurt, and I couldn't watch the morning news. I've been slowly trying to adapt to running outside, but the problem is that I enjoyed running on the treadmill and I loathe running outside. Hmm.

Good info! I'd like to read more, so if you are up to it, I'm here waiting!

ah.. the good ol' "Cliff Young shuffle" is what they call it here Down Under. It is a technique used by ultra marathon runners (100km>) to save energy by preventing excess movement. It may well be a great technique to begin with in order to build up fitness levels and endurance (and to encourage those without a strong background of running), however when it comes time to improve your speed and race times, its time to move on.
In the lead up to a race focus on your speed and technique, it is here you will find your main improvements will come from. leave the long runs in as an endurance base (and so you still know you will make the distance on the day ) And increase your workload progressively in order to reach your physical "peak" by race day.

So i guess my point here is once you have learnt to tolerate running, aim that one step higher

Goodluck to everyone,

::aidan::.

The 60 spm in the original post should be a 160, oops.

I have to politely disagree with this remark , I am assuming that you mean an increase in power to increase speed. If we take a look at two "shuffling" runners, we can see the difference:

We'll assume the both runners are running 10 minute miles (150 spm, 3.5 feet per stride)

Runner A increases power(stride length) first, over the course of a year he/she is able to increase stride length to 4.0 feet(14% gain) - New Pace 8.8 minutes per mile(pretty good)

Runner B focuses on increasing endurance(foot turnover) and over the course of that same year he/she manages to increase stride rate to 170 (13% gain) - New Pace 8 minutes per mile.

This is why I advocate "shuffling" first. Not only is it easier on the system, it also teaches efficiency. You can get away with power running in a 5k and 10k but not much further than that. On the other hand, an efficient runner with a high leg turnover can go about any distance they want from 5k on up.

Me thinks that this could be a second article

I'm not sure if I agree with the shuffling philosophy. What does this shuffling look like? I know that my wife received some coaching at some point in her life before we met that had her running by keeping her feet very low on the recovery portion of the step. (when your foot is moving forward through the air...) She would almost not even bend her knee and nearly scrape her foot on each step. This is a very unnatural and inefficient motion, and this goes back to physics. Simply put, it take more energy to swing a long pendulum (foot near the ground) than a short pendulum of the same weight. Therefore, I say that you should allow your toes to push off on each step, and recover with the foot at a comfortable, natural height, not focusing on trying to keep that foot low.

The exception to that for triathletes is the beginning of the run leg of a race or a brick. At this point, your calves might be trying to cramp up, and you need to not shorten that muscle on each step.

That being said, I clearly agree that the way to faster running is to quicken your cadence, while letting the step length take care of itself. However, let me close by saying that your analysis assumes that each percentage gain comes at the same price of effort, which may not be the case.

That's all I have for now. I wish I had a cure for ITBS, but I am thankful that I do not suffer from it!

I would LOVE to have a write-up on running. Seems there's lots of stuff for the swim & cycle portion for the rookie, but very little for the run. Just the above tips alone are like gold to me. Thanks!!

I do not advocate running without bending your knees, by all means bend'em that's why they are there but... Instead of working on a high knee lift and powerful push off, lessen the knee lift and shorten your stride. When people(especially new to running) want to speed up they have a tendency to "over stride" i.e. they push off hard their knees come up and they come crashing down hard on their heel with their foot too far in front of them(which slows them down and wreaks havoc on heels and knees). By focusing on foot turnover and keeping the feet lower to the ground, you protect yourself from this.
I am going to to write something up on it, I promise I'll explain it better I used the "shuffling" term simply because it was in the previous post(my mistake).

As for the pendulum, your analysis seems flawed! It's not really a pendulum but if it was, the length of travel is the same length for both (3.5 feet), the only difference is that in one example the knee is raised higher(which takes more energy and is less economical).

It's not the length of travel, it's the weight of swinging the foot through that entire length. Picture the figure skater who spins slowly with her arms extended, but brings her arms in and begins to spin faster and faster. She has the same weight, but in differentl places, so she uses less energy per revolution with her arms in, so she can spin faster without pushing again. The knee is going to travel the same distance.

In the end, I think we are saying the same thing. Raising the knee is never the answer in distance running. This is what sprinters do... Push off with the toes and kick the heel all the way up to the butt, then reach out with the foot and "paw" the ground with the toes. In distance running, this type of motion would kill you. The idea is to try to keep your head reasonably level. It's gonna bounce just because you are running. Land softly, either on your heel or on your entire foot, then travel through the step with ease and grace.

In the end we are saying the same thing. No more Physics! You are bringing back some bad "Moment of Inertia" memories. I had them repressed until now... Back to therapy

im sticking with my initial comment. Shuffling should only be used in ultra marathons. sure, if you find it hard going out for a long run then it is understandable to shuffle if it is easier, that is your choice. However if you wish to make any type of conciderable improvement at all, shuffling is not the technique to use.

I can see your theory behind your opinion JayC, however running is not as simple as that, and you are failing to include numerous other variables which have a huge effect on performance between the two stride techniques.
shuffling is an extremely restrictive technique, and as Tiger phil said, it lacks the upward momentum which causes increased stride length. This is plain to see with olympic runners in distances anywhere from 800m to the marathon - not one professional athlete uses the shuffle.

with my own personal experiences i have found that when using the shuffle, i fell short of my 5km time by 3minutes (my PB is 16.05) as i could not achieve the same stride lengths or power conversion as what i did using the proper (or conventional) technique.

aidan hobbs
(level 0 athletics coach)

http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0187.htm

JayC,
research and trial your techniques and theories before you advocate them to others and challenge generally accepted practices

.::aidan::.

Edited by Pro_rider 2004-03-25 4:54 AM

Aidan -

1) I didn't mean to make it seem like I was attacking you which I must have since your included "Level 0 Coach" and your PR(which is impressive), so I apologize for that.
2) I really do not appreciate being attacked when all I was trying to do is give some pointers on enjoying running more. I am not a coach and I don't profess to being one but I have been running for the last 20 years (with a 5 year break to bulk up ) and I have picked up a few things along the way. I am simply trying to convey that running doesn't have to be a "chore", you can enjoy it.
3) I do research through Runner's World, Jeff Galloway's Book on Running and Marathon, Several Forums including Slowtwitch, Cool Running and countless other web sites. I watch runner's everyday, you can see plain as day what works and what doesn't. You can accuse me of alot of things, this one you will always be wrong on. I am a student in everything I do.
4)I said lower knee-lift and shorter faster stride, you said shuffle and I mistakenly repeated it.
5)Have someone take a picture of you in the middle of a 5k, I'll bet your running with knees slightly bent and your feet within 6 inches of the ground.

Here are some websites that profess exactly what I am saying:

http://www.runningplanet.com/articles/article_detail.asp?article_id...
http://www.drpribut.com/sports/running_form.html
http://jeffgalloway.com/resources/rw_archives/jul_1999.html
http://jeffgalloway.com/resources/rw_archives/jul_2001.html
http://www.gugly.com/Archrunform.htm
http://www.activesports.co.zw/train_health_nutrition/tri_run_form.h...
http://www.flying-y.com/Marathon/training/running_form.html
http://www.virtualfitnesscenter.com/vfc/Running/RunningForm.htm



Edited by JayC 2004-03-25 8:14 AM

Vanessa -
I completely missed you ITBS thing, sorry! I wish I had the magic button that would cure this but I don't. You may just be overdoing it in the races. Bike = OK, Run=OK, Bike+Run = NOT OK. It could be that you are tired enough after the bike that you are getting "wobbly" on your run. The only advice I can add is to try different things until one works. I had this pop up last year when I was running on banked roads, when I started switching sides of the road and wearing a more supportive shoe, it went away.

JayC,I appreciate your post. To me there are two different audiences here. There are those who will be running for a long time - those "pro," athletes I call them even though they're not paid and folks like me, who started running five weeks ago for the first time EVER.I hate running. I despise running. And quite frankly, I don't care if my 5k is 40 min as long as I cross the finish line and run the whole way. I am a "shuffler." And I did my first 5K on St. Patty's Day. And it took me 46 min. But I did run more than I've ever ran in my life because I went slow and kept my feet close to the grown. If I'd picked up any speed or lengthen my stride I wouldn't have gotten tired and not been able to run as long. But I maintain that the longer you run the more difficult it is to remain a "shuffler," at least for me. It cramps my legs so I've been gradually increasing my speed. I started running/shuffling at about 4.2 mph on the treadmill. I have gotten up to about 13 minutes straight and as much as 19 min total. Today, for the first time, I ran as high as 5.0 and sustained that 13-min straight run the whole time w/o getting tired. So for me my body naturally wanted to go faster than the shuffle. But the shuffle allows me to sustain through the length of time I need. So I guess you're both right!

OH,And What the heck is ITBS?

Iliotibial Band Syndrome - pain on the outside of the knee.

Generally, you start out your run fine and then it creeps in. Can be really bad and it is hard to treat.

I have no problems with different opinions at all(there are plenty of them floating around) but I do have a problem when someone that does not know me starts making judgements about my character. That being said... I am finished defending myself, time to get started on my outline for the article.

I'll be happy to see that article when you're done with it, JayC.

I agree with a lot of what Ovetta says. I too am a very beginning runner who hates running and will never be very fast at it. I appreciate any tips for those of us who are at this point in our running "career". Please do write that article.