Ironman on nothing but CrossFit and CrossFit Endurance (Page 6)

Due to family and health issues, I had almost zero tri training--in 4 months leading up to the race, I swam once, biked once or twice and went for a few 3-ish mile runs, and that's it. 

As much as I believe in the benefits of CrossFit, it's not going to overcome that much lack of prep.  But like I said it was either DNS or enjoy as much as possible of a supported brick in the company of amazing athletes on a beautiful day.  So I had 5 hours of fun and called it a day. 

And the next day I started training for next year.  Recuperative ability is one of the biggest things I've noticed from my CF training--a 5 hour effort was more than 3 times longer than anything I'd done in 6 months, but any fatigue or soreness the next day was pretty minimal.

Thanks.  I enjoy a good "argument" as long as it involves actually listening to the other side and trying to learn something and not just "defend my position at all costs."

The CrossFit HQ official party line as I understand it is that CF is a "be-all end-all" BASE for training in other sports and does NOT replace the necessity of sport specific training.  I definitely have some reservations about CFE and don't know T.J. Murphy from a hole in the wall, but the article seemed to be "here's my experience" which one can't really argue with.

Nope, never heard of him.  In the article you linked, there's some that I agree with and some I definitely disagree with.  How can you "become a better athlete" and have that NOT improve your running?  Most runners have very poor core strength, and gross muscular imbalances both of which affect your running performance.  Nothing quite like developing dead butt syndrome.

He also makes the statement that CF does not improve "aerobic capacity".  I guess I don't know for sure what he means by that, but CF does increase cardiac stroke volume which is a primary component of VO2 max (which obviously affects what most people would call aerobic capacity.)

But in the same sentence he mentions mitochondrial count and fuel efficiency which I absolutely agree with that you've gotta run (Z1 and Z2) to develop these, and that doesn't happen in a CF program.

Not sure if the "CFE athletes" was supposed to refer to me, but if you check my earlier posts I think their program is lacking in regards to ultra distance events and am not a CFE athlete.    This year I was a "get off the couch if possible" athlete and spent more time at the Mayo clinic than I did training, but managed to stay somewhat consistent in my regular CF WODs.  Hoping this year will be different.  If not I wasted a whole lot of money on a Computrainer! 

4:14:27 marathon last Sunday. Felt strong the entire day. Suck it.

The "suck it" quote is quite mature.

Are you certain that was your run split?  There doesn't appear to be a single athlete in the entire field who posted that particular time.

Are you sure??? Perhaps you should check again.  I mean dude has like a grand total of 3 posts here.  He wouldn't fib.

Wow, you guys need to chill a bit.  Or a lot.  Yeah, he only has 3 posts, and with attitudes like this I'd be surprised if he ever bother to come back.  Yes, the "Suck it" was a bit less than polite, but keep in mind he was also bashed after one of his first posts--"Are you planning on walking the entire course?"

Personally I keep/use my race results from my watch and often prefer those over the "official" results (so for example my swim is actually swim time, not swim + 200 yard run up the beach), so just because there's no official time that matches his doesn't make it impossible or even unlikely.

And let's try to make this a friendly, respectful place, otherwise we should all just go join slowtwitch.

I gave no attitude.  I called him out for acting like a jerk with the "suck it" comment, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt for the reason you stated.  I didn't say he was lying.  I was trying to look up his overall performance, and was unable to find it based on the time he gave.  Any time someone posts on a public board bragging about their performance, they should expect others to analyze that performance.  One split in a tri is meaningless without putting it in context of the other splits.

ETA: If he doesn't come back, then I will question whether it was a lie rather than a typo or discrepancy between official timing and his GPS.

I agree--it would be awesome if we could get a detailed race report from this person as it could contribute greatly to this thread.  I certainly have no reason to believe he's lying, but without some additional detail it's not terribly useful information.

Now I will weigh in on this again. I did crossfit, then didn't, and am back doing it again. I approach it very differently than last time, however, in that I am aware it is a PART of an overall training program, for me, and certainly not essential.

The comment of "suck it" really does delve into the heart of why a LOT of serious people in the exercise world will always have trouble with crossfit. The closed minded, elitist, us and them mentality is CRAZY. It probably suits their target market, 20 something "bro science" guys. I know for me (40 something, professionally educated, in the health field), a lot of what crossfit and CFE does and says is just utter rubbish. That being said I like the workouts, I like the people, and I do get fitter and a little stronger.

So while you may say he has been hard done by, and he should be proud of his achievements, his comment was rather poorly done, and without the context of the rest of the race, does not tell us anything we have not already gone through in here. Yes you may be able to pre-pair for a marathon/ironman on CFE only. It is not the best. No elite athlete is doing so. 

I think the other thing that would be worthwhile mentioning here is the impression that crossfit will make you significantly stronger and therefore faster, and that it is good for injury prevention. Firstly, some crossfit gyms focus on strength, but the majority (at least here in Australia) are more "metcon" biased, which after a beginners training effect, will have little effect on your overall strength. Even if it were a real strength builder, that is only useful to a point (before you argue, if strength was an absolute speed builder, power lifters would be the fastest people on earth!).

Secondly, crossfit is considered to have a higher than average rate of injury. I could not find any definitive stats, as basically CF HQ does not mention relative injury rates. However, it is a common observation from fitness professionals that injurys are not uncommon, and can be very severe within crossfit.

With all that being said, if, like me, you enjoy it, like the atmosphere, and ignore the chest beating foolery, then by all means go and have a ball. Just do not think it is an IDEAL preparation for an iron man (and maybe refrain from the abusive comments when you manage to finish a race on it)

Excellent post!

Just thought I'd chime in as a current crossfitter and former Ironman.

I did IM Wisconsin in 2011 in 10:20ish with a 3:23 marathon and missed a Kona spot by 8minutes. Ouch!

Training was mostly modeled of the Endurance Nation workouts (lots of FTP/Threshold/killer long rides, etc)- i'd guess i maxed out at 15hrs.

After IMWI, i promised my wife I was done with the multisport thing for a while, and started CF a few months later.  A year later i've put on about 15lbs and definitely added a lot of strength in all areas.  I did keep up with some MTB riding in the past year, but no running outside crossfit.  I recently did a 5k in 20:xx, 6:30ish pace- in other words a minute per mile slower than when I was in "ironman shape".

I found that pretty depressing. I didnt know what to expect, but I paced evenly and left everything out on the course.  Fueled by that i did an FTP test on the bike last weekend ~215W- "ironman shape" was ~270w.

It hit me that i need to find a better balance.  I like being strong, and my wife likes my new shape:-). But I think I define fitness for me being able to jump into any race, or help a neighbor move a piece of furniture upstairs- and have enough energy to play with my nephews for hours at a time. Probably look to do Steelhead this year and keep a log to see what strength numbers vs. ride/run numbers evolve to.

My point is- yes you could finish an endurance event off CF/CFE alone, especially if you have any type of endurance background.  Is it the best way?  Depends on what your goals are.

That sounds like a very reasonable experience. It is a shame a few bad apples spoil the bunch, because there does seem to be a lot to like. Even I was burnt out a bit, so I am taking a break and went back to the gym. It's nice to do some strength stuff again. I looked into doing CF in my area, but at a $150/mo... that is a little steep to put up with the sterotypes. I get that it is instructor led stuff, but still.

Why does CF HQ have to keep saying stupid things like this?  Tweeted yesterday:

CrossFit ‏@CrossFit

We do your stuff nearly as well as you do, you can't do ours very well at all, & we do everything that we both don't do much better than you

Foolish statements like that are what hurts Crossfit's credibility with coaches and other fitness professionals.

It would have been nice for the author to come back and detail how he thought CFE contributed to his IMWI time.  race summary states he felt strong the entire race - detailed report has lots of talk of cramping and a significantly slower time than his previous IM. 

My question was not bashing him at all.  I am constantly amazed by anyone who thinks they can race long distances well by running very little in training.   99% of the people in the world can't. 

If he actually did run a 4:14 marathon on running 2x per week, then I must say he is one incredibly gifted athlete.  I would also be interested to know how the recovery went, and if he was in any amount of pain in the following days because his muscles, ligaments and tendons weren't prepared for the distance.

These are all legitimate questions and shouldn't be construed as bashing.  I don't understand all the defensive posturing.

And if this were slowtwitch, I would have been notified that somone replied to my post 6 weeks ago and wouldn't be so late in replying!

Well you learn something new every day.  Thanks!

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Hey all,

An interesting discussion (minus the aggressive posts), but I thought I'd provide my two cents:

I've been racing tris for about 6 years with no background as a runner (I'm a bit too mesomorphic to be a great runner), but some decent cycling and swimming background.  I have had decent success at OLY and HIM distances (sub-3 hour and sub-6 hour, respectively), but again, nothing tremendous due to my lack of love for running.  I am active with TNT, and am a Tier 1 Coach (taught by the great Dave Scott).

I started CrossFit this year in my off-season to build strength for my Ironman Lake Tahoe training.  I've been easing out of 3-4 CF WODs/ week since November into maybe 1 CF WOD and 5 LSD SBR workouts/ week.  This is all in preparation for Ironman Tahoe in September.

I truly believe that CF and CFE are the best programs to build strength and toughness physically and mentally, but that they are designed for shorter-duration events, up to and including a 1/2 iron distance.  Full iron (12+ hours of exertion) is a VERY different ball of wax and it would take a true genetic outlier to be successful at IM with CF-CFE.

So I think you can get away with using CF/CFE for OLY and HIM tris.  For IM, train with CF/CFE in the off-season to get strong and lean.  When in-season (maybe 6months to race day), shift to LSD/SBR with the occasional WOD to maintain strength.  I'll let you know how it works for me.

ok I am way to lazy to read through all of this: can someone update me on the whole thread? Has someone done this? Is someone signed up to do it? I really think I can do it and pretty sure I want to try it.

ok I am way to lazy to read through all of this: can someone update me on the whole thread? Has someone done this? Is someone signed up to do it? I really think I can do it and pretty sure I want to try it.

Yep people have "done this" if that means finish the race.  For more details, read the thread.  ;-)