Swim Myth #7.....Busted. (Page 2)

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2010-06-03 7:49 PM
in reply to: #2899859

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Subject: RE: Swim Myth #7.....Busted.
AdventureBear - 2010-06-03 5:24 PM
trigods - 2010-06-03 1:27 PM

So my question for Mr Hall (and any other uber swimmer) is this:

So I understand the whole faster turnover thing but isnt having a faster turn over just swimming faster?

i.e. everyone talks about having a lower stroke count for 25y in the pool (somewhere around say 18) but if you increase your turnover, you are swimming faster in the water and now you have say 22 strokes per length but you swam a faster time.

To me it is not like running with a faster turn over and shorting your steps to baby steps OR is it? because you are propelling yourself thru the water and there is resistance from the water. so shorting your stroke (not taking a longer stroke) does make you faster or more fluid in the water.

to me trying to have a faster turn over is just like doing sprint work in the water but I think it is not supposed to be.

So how does one swim the same time or slower with a higher turnover rate to prevent it turning into sprint work in the pool?

 

make sense?

The math of speed makes this an easy question to answer. Velocity = stroke rate x stroke length. For any given turnover, the longer you can make your stroke, the faster you will go. (ie, taking 20 strokes at 1 sec/stroke rather than 21 strokes at the same rate has you doing a length 1 second faster). Search some of my posts on tempo trainer workouts for more ideas & info on this.


So do you leave your bike in its hardest gear at all times? Velocity = pedal stroke rate x pedal stroke length.

2010-06-05 6:37 PM
in reply to: #2900105

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Subject: RE: Swim Myth #7.....Busted.
tjfry - 2010-06-03 6:49 PM

So do you leave your bike in its hardest gear at all times? Velocity = pedal stroke rate x pedal stroke length.


No...just as I don't swim at the same tempo nor same stroke length all the time... I regularly practice at a variety of tempos and SPLs.

2010-06-05 6:52 PM
in reply to: #2898156

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Subject: RE: Swim Myth #7.....Busted.
dcon - 2010-06-03 1:28 AM One of the guys near the front of the pack (2nd or 3rd) in the 10K open water Olympic event was breathing on both sides, i.e., on each and every stroke.


now I don;t feel like such a loser for doing this.  Of course, sometime I accidently do a wheelbarrow, not sure why.
2010-06-06 2:01 PM
in reply to: #2899774


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Subject: RE: Swim Myth #7.....Busted.
Fastyellow - 2010-06-03 2:32 PM This is my pattern:

LBR, R, LBR, R, LBR, R, LSWR, R, LGAR, RBL, LCHR, RSWL.....ETC ETC


Legend:
L = Left
R = Right
B= Breath
SW = Swallow Water
GA = Gasp
CH = Choke


I tried this pattern today.  At first it was tough to get used to, but I quickly adapted to it.  What I like most is the need for pre-race hydration is eliminated.
2010-06-10 6:26 PM
in reply to: #2898101

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Subject: RE: Swim Myth #7.....Busted.
I would counter that the oxygen demand goes up tremendously with the amount of exertion and the reason we continue to hyperventilate even after we have ceased our strenuous physical activity is that we are unable to deliver enough oxygen during the activity to supply our physical requirements (so-called oxygen debt). It simply makes no physiological sense to me that since we know in every sport where air is available upon demand respiratory rates at maximal exertion are in the 50 to 65 range, that we should reduce that to 30 or less while swimming....unless of course we have no choice. But we do...even at a price. 

Gary 
2010-06-10 9:42 PM
in reply to: #2898054

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Subject: RE: Swim Myth #7.....Busted.
If you increase your turnover, you don't necessarily increase your velocity.  You only have so much power in your arms.  If you try to turn over fast and you don't have the power, you wind up slipping your hand and arm through the water.  The result is you turn over like crazy but don't go anywhere.  I coach a HS swimmer who was a state champ this past year in the 200 free.  He just looks effortless and doesn't turn over real fast and he usually takes about 13 strokes a length in practice swimming 200 repeats on 2:20 or 2:30.  So turnover is important, but stroke efficiency is much more so for the triathlete that needs to swim a thousand yards or more without a flip turn, provided you have the power to do it.  You need to find your personal balance.  Simply turning over faster doesn't make you faster; turning over faster while maintaining your distance/output per stroke will make you faster, but it comes at a price.


Edited by 3darcher2 2010-06-10 9:46 PM

2010-06-10 10:02 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim Myth #7.....Busted.
garyhallsr - 2010-06-10 6:26 PM I would counter that the oxygen demand goes up tremendously with the amount of exertion and the reason we continue to hyperventilate even after we have ceased our strenuous physical activity is that we are unable to deliver enough oxygen during the activity to supply our physical requirements (so-called oxygen debt). It simply makes no physiological sense to me that since we know in every sport where air is available upon demand respiratory rates at maximal exertion are in the 50 to 65 range, that we should reduce that to 30 or less while swimming....unless of course we have no choice. But we do...even at a price. 

Gary 


You're still off with the physiology.  Respiratory rates are that high to blow off carbon dioxide and NOT to increase oxygen consumption.  "Oxygen debt" is at the cellular level and isn't affected by ventilation in people with nondiseased lungs.  We take in all the oxygen via our lungs that we could ever use.  We just can't use it all at the cellular level.

Breathing more often lowers blood carbon dioxide levels.  This is still a very good thing. 
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