Swim Myth #7.....Busted.

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2010-06-02 10:03 PM

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Subject: Swim Myth #7.....Busted.
Myth #7: When it comes to getting oxygen in freestyle, breathing every cycle is as good as it gets. 

In almost every other sport but swimming (freestyle), we get the luxury of breathing whenever we want. Typically, with maximal exertion, that means we are inhaling at a respiratory rate of between 50 and 65 times per minute. Not so in swimming. 
Most swimmers breathe every cycle and to one side only (a cycle is two arm strokes, or hand entry to hand entry). Since most triathletes turn their arms over slowly (say 35 to 55 strokes per minute), that means the respiratory rate while swimming is 18 to 28; hardly what one would do voluntarily, if one had the choice. (try running or biking with that respiratory rate and see how you do!) 
But you do have a choice...sort of. First, you can learn to swim with a higher stroke rate and second, you can try a different breathing pattern. Specifically, I am referring to a 2:3 pattern rather than a 1:2 pattern of breathing. What that means in the Left Stroke Breath Right (LBR), Right Stroke Breathe Left (RBL) Left Stroke no breath (L), Right Stroke no breath (R) terminology is the following: 

LBR, RBL, L, RBL, LBR, R, LBR, RBL, L etc 

So, as is so common in swimming, this too presents compromise. What are the pros and cons? 

Pros: You get 27% more oxygen than if you breathe every cycle, and with oxygen you'll produce 15 times more ATP than without it, and hopefully produce less lactate. You get the associated benefit of breathing more...less fatigue. You get to see the scenery on both sides of the lake or pool. 

Cons: Most swimmers feel awkward breathing to their weak side. The act of breathing slows the stroke rate. Breathing often results in the arm being pulled too far under the body, creating more drag. If there is a nice swell on one side, breathing to that side may lead to swallowing more water. 

So this begs the question, if this 2:3 pattern is so good, why don't world class distance swimmers use it? Not sure. It may be that it is yet an undiscovered technique...or, more likely, in the world of superbly conditioned, oxygen deprived distance swimmers, it may be that the cons outweigh the pros. But for this almost 60 year old not so superbly conditioned swimmer, who enters an ocean swim once or twice a year, I love the 2:3 pattern. And for those triathletes who dare to try it (and it takes some getting used to), you may not jump out of the water any faster than by breathing every cycle, but, barring swallowing more water, I'll bet you will feel a lot better. 

Gary Sr. 

2010-06-02 10:31 PM
in reply to: #2898054

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Master
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Subject: RE: Swim Myth #7.....Busted.
Here's a link to the 2:3 breathing pattern on Youtube (from Gary's club in fact).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-bHqFVuwgM


Thanks for the tip Gary, I'm not sure if I'm at the level to even try this out (still trying to perfect my form) but when I'm ready I'll definately give it a go.  Looking forward to the other 3!

Edited by furiousferret 2010-06-02 10:34 PM
2010-06-02 10:46 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim Myth #7.....Busted.
I would counter that the main driver for increased rate of respiration is CO2 accumulation, and that the amount oxygen in the blood stream (or lack thereof) is not a limiter.

This is the whole foundation of VO2 - how much oxygen your body utilizes during activity. There is always excess oxygen in the exhaled air...the limiter is the muscles' ability to use the oxygen, not the delivery of it.

That piece of physiology aside, one does still need to find a comfortable breathing pattern to maintain during swims. But the driver is maintaining correct acidosis/blowing off CO2...not lack of oxygen.
2010-06-02 11:33 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim Myth #7.....Busted.

Fascinating.

Thanks a lot Gary!
2010-06-02 11:56 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim Myth #7.....Busted.
Gary
I ran across a link to the youtube video (on Slowtwitch IIRC ) a couple of months back.  I've tried the pattern and it seems doable for me.  My question: Is the breathe left and breathe right really a huge inhale that is split between the left and right sides or are they separated by a short exhale while rolling from left to right and vice versa?

Thanks for sharing all this info!
2010-06-03 12:28 AM
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Master
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Subject: RE: Swim Myth #7.....Busted.
One of the guys near the front of the pack (2nd or 3rd) in the 10K open water Olympic event was breathing on both sides, i.e., on each and every stroke.

2010-06-03 5:43 AM
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2010-06-03 8:11 AM
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NH
Subject: RE: Swim Myth #7.....Busted.
I'm not sure I totally follow this.  Are you saying breath two consecutive strokes, then do a stroke without breathing, then breath 2 two consecutive strokes, then do a stroke without breathing, etc?

I'm not sure I could maintain any kind of balance in the water turning my head to breath that much, but it would be TON more air than I get now doing "typical" bilateral breathing every third stroke (I guess that would be 1:3 per your nomenclature?).
2010-06-03 8:37 AM
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Champion
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Subject: RE: Swim Myth #7.....Busted.
wbayek - 2010-06-03 9:11 AM I'm not sure I totally follow this.  Are you saying breath two consecutive strokes, then do a stroke without breathing, then breath 2 two consecutive strokes, then do a stroke without breathing, etc?


Yes, that is what he is saying.

I've done this occasionally in the pool and was surprised that I liked it.

To another poster's question:  in my understanding, no it is not one big breath split into two.  Exhale between breaths.  That's how I do it anyway.  I don't see the point otherwise.
2010-06-03 8:40 AM
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Champion
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Subject: RE: Swim Myth #7.....Busted.

Interesting.  Looks like I have something to try starting in July (don't want to mess with my current rhythm with less than 3 weeks to go to my A race).

2010-06-03 8:44 AM
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Subject: RE: Swim Myth #7.....Busted.
PennState - 2010-06-03 5:43 AM This was Gary's first tip I started usuing when he posted it on ST. It is very useful in OWS, but feels awkward at first in practice. Thumbs up from me


same here,, it took me a while to get a decent rhythm but the hardest thing for me was my exhale... I haven't finished my exhale and I'm breathing already,, thats the most difficult thing for me when doing this.

2010-06-03 9:04 AM
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2010-06-03 9:09 AM
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Subject: RE: Swim Myth #7.....Busted.

PennState - 2010-06-03 9:04 AM Truthfully when I do this in ows I do a variant. I tend to breathing to one side for 3 cycles and then do the instantly breath to the opposite side. Then I will do a few cycles on that side and then switch back. It's a way to bilaterally breath without having to hold my breath for 3 separate arm strokes.

 

interesting!! I never thought of doing this.  Sounds like great gains can be made? I don't know the correct terminology, but I generally stick with stroke stroke breathe, every three strokes.  I'm better off doing breathe, breathe, breathe, stroke stroke to then change sides?

2010-06-03 9:13 AM
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Master
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Subject: RE: Swim Myth #7.....Busted.

The breathing pattern that I've started using and really like is

RBL, L, RBL, L, R, LBR, R, LBR, R, L ... and repeat

Keeps you breathing from each side, and is a good compromise between breathing every 2nd and 3rd.

2010-06-03 9:17 AM
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2010-06-03 10:06 AM
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Subject: RE: Swim Myth #7.....Busted.
AdventureBear - 2010-06-02 10:46 PM I would counter that the main driver for increased rate of respiration is CO2 accumulation, and that the amount oxygen in the blood stream (or lack thereof) is not a limiter. This is the whole foundation of VO2 - how much oxygen your body utilizes during activity. There is always excess oxygen in the exhaled air...the limiter is the muscles' ability to use the oxygen, not the delivery of it. That piece of physiology aside, one does still need to find a comfortable breathing pattern to maintain during swims. But the driver is maintaining correct acidosis/blowing off CO2...not lack of oxygen.


Agree with this completely. 

I would say that this "busted myth" is simply a myth although the breathing pattern has other benefits.

Edited by DerekL 2010-06-03 10:07 AM

2010-06-03 1:53 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim Myth #7.....Busted.

I thought about it some more, and I have a question.

This post is directed towards the idea of "maximum effort".

But for those of us who have to bike and run afterward, the swimming will certainly be at something less than maximum.  And for during ironman distance, the swim will probably be at a relatively easy cardio pace.

So, I'm wondering how this all applies to doing swims at a cardio level of effort, instead of maximum. 

If you're swimming at a pace where your breathing is relaxed and easy, is breathing once a cycle more than enough?
2010-06-03 2:27 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim Myth #7.....Busted.

So my question for Mr Hall (and any other uber swimmer) is this:

So I understand the whole faster turnover thing but isnt having a faster turn over just swimming faster?

i.e. everyone talks about having a lower stroke count for 25y in the pool (somewhere around say 18) but if you increase your turnover, you are swimming faster in the water and now you have say 22 strokes per length but you swam a faster time.

To me it is not like running with a faster turn over and shorting your steps to baby steps OR is it? because you are propelling yourself thru the water and there is resistance from the water. so shorting your stroke (not taking a longer stroke) does make you faster or more fluid in the water.

to me trying to have a faster turn over is just like doing sprint work in the water but I think it is not supposed to be.

So how does one swim the same time or slower with a higher turnover rate to prevent it turning into sprint work in the pool?

 

make sense?

2010-06-03 2:29 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim Myth #7.....Busted.
SevenZulu - 2010-06-03 10:13 AM

The breathing pattern that I've started using and really like is

RBL, L, RBL, L, R, LBR, R, LBR, R, L ... and repeat

Keeps you breathing from each side, and is a good compromise between breathing every 2nd and 3rd.



This is what I do, and I like it a lot. Masters coach mentioned it to me.
I don't feel like I need as much air as the Gary's method would provide, but like another poster stated, I am not swimming at maximum effort or anything close to it during a race or OWS. However, when I do my 300-yd swim test, I could see that this would be beneficial.
2010-06-03 4:27 PM
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2010-06-03 4:32 PM
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Master
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Subject: RE: Swim Myth #7.....Busted.
This is my pattern:

LBR, R, LBR, R, LBR, R, LSWR, R, LGAR, RBL, LCHR, RSWL.....ETC ETC


Legend:
L = Left
R = Right
B= Breath
SW = Swallow Water
GA = Gasp
CH = Choke

2010-06-03 4:45 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim Myth #7.....Busted.

So, how does a standard bilateral breathing pattern fit in?  I just breathe that way naturally, with the occasional 2:1 if I need an extra breath.    That only happens about once per length, if that.

2010-06-03 5:24 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim Myth #7.....Busted.
trigods - 2010-06-03 1:27 PM

So my question for Mr Hall (and any other uber swimmer) is this:

So I understand the whole faster turnover thing but isnt having a faster turn over just swimming faster?

i.e. everyone talks about having a lower stroke count for 25y in the pool (somewhere around say 18) but if you increase your turnover, you are swimming faster in the water and now you have say 22 strokes per length but you swam a faster time.

To me it is not like running with a faster turn over and shorting your steps to baby steps OR is it? because you are propelling yourself thru the water and there is resistance from the water. so shorting your stroke (not taking a longer stroke) does make you faster or more fluid in the water.

to me trying to have a faster turn over is just like doing sprint work in the water but I think it is not supposed to be.

So how does one swim the same time or slower with a higher turnover rate to prevent it turning into sprint work in the pool?

 

make sense?



The math of speed makes this an easy question to answer.

Velocity = stroke rate x stroke length. For any given turnover, the longer you can make your stroke, the faster you will go. (ie, taking 20 strokes at 1 sec/stroke rather than 21 strokes at the same rate has you doing a length 1 second faster).

Search some of my posts on tempo trainer workouts for more ideas & info on this.
2010-06-03 7:30 PM
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Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: Swim Myth #7.....Busted.
Wow! This is amazing! I tried it tonight and just wow! I had so much more air! Definitely going to keep swimming like this. Thanks!
2010-06-03 7:47 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim Myth #7.....Busted.
I'm gonna have to disagree on this one. You are just about to a full on pant if you are doing this at any effort/stroke rate. Get a good rhythm with your breathing and it's doubtful that you would need to inhale 2 times in 1 second, or even 1 time per second for that matter.  Go for a run and check how often you inhale, or for that matter, try and inhale (really inhale, not pant) once per second while you read this. You many pass out before you get to 30. But some will dig it, especially those who have too slow of a turnover, so go for it if it works for you.
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