General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Post HIM analysis Rss Feed  
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2010-06-22 3:31 PM

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Subject: Post HIM analysis
I've included links below to my blogged race report and my BT race report. Overall I'm happy with my performance finishing my first HIM but I'm going over things in my head and my power results/splits to see what should have been done differently. Not having done a HIM before I'm curious how my thoughts compare with this communities thoughts.

Nutrition plan: 350 calorie breakfast 3 hours prior to start. ~150 calorie/hour 16 oz perpetuem until race start. ~300 calories/hour primarily perpetuem augments with HEED. Fluid intake ~30oz/hour. 2 Endurolyte tablets/hour.

I had a nutrition plan and stuck to it. I bumped my fluid intake up from my normal 24oz/hour to 30oz/hour because of the heat. I had to use the bathroom shortly after finish and had the slight urge to go most of the race. It appears I stayed sufficiently hydrated.

Swim: Fine. Pace was supposedly 2:09/100 but I (and several others) thought the course was long by at least 0.1 miles which would put my pace right around or sub 2:00/100 which is what I expected to swim. 1:59/100 is my 1500 pace in a pool and I don't flip turn.

Bike: Had power goal of 204 W based on 80% of LTR (255 W). Tested this with 50% race distance simulation 2 weeks prior and ran 5k after bike successfully. 204W felt hard and I ended up with:
Lap 1 - 186W VI 1.05
Lap 2 - 169W VI 1.07

I started having lower back pains the final 10 miles of the ride. My takeaway is that my bike fitness was not sufficient (especially core strength). I had to come out of aero frequently in last 10 miles and my power felt more "stabby" and less even and is reflected in the higher VI.

Run: Really though I was running slowly out of T2 but did an 8:45 mile 1. I had some twinges of quad issues and a lot of lower back pain extending around to my front, lower rib cage. Ran until mile 4 (all sub 10). Walked uphills until mile 8. Walked flats and uphills miles 8-13. Ended up with an 11:00/mi pace which was my biggest disappointment with the race. As a data point my fastest mile this year is 6:30 and I ran back to back (5 minute rest) 5ks at a 7:50/mi pace.

I'm having a hard time describing what my failure mode was when I went from running to walking as it wasn't just one issue. My heart rate would start to spike as would my respiration. I suffer from breathing problems in hot weather while exercising and I had problems getting a full breath. It also hurt to breathe deeply from the back and rib pain. My legs did hurt, but I certainly felt like I could keep turning my legs over if needed. My body just made me stop and walk to recover my breath. it's a failure mode I have not yet experienced.

My personal takeaways: I set my initial bike power too high. I may have had a bad 5 minute power test result which inflated my LTR slightly but not the 24W I was off. I also feel like my core strength and skipping most of my long rides late in my training hurt me.

I went out too fast on the run. Add this to the heat, breathing issues, and a lack of core strength and I ended up having poor run showing. The biggest things that I can do are to continue to lose weight (I carry an extra 20 pounds easily) and to not skip the long workouts. Also, do not neglect the core strength.

Positives: I finished my first HIM I attempted. I had a nutrition and race plan that I largely stuck to and allowed me to feel pretty good post race. My mental preparation allowed me to anticipate feeling like quitting in the first 4 miles of the run and made me push through. I still finished 20/32 in AG and had I raced Clyde would have been 3rd. (I weighed 201 pre race and 196 post) I prefer to race AG for the earlier swim wave since I'm not really competitive.

Any thoughts the community have on my race/analysis are appreciated!

Blog race report (with pics):
http://www.juddmansee.com/blog/?p=734

BT Race report:
http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp...


2010-06-22 3:47 PM
in reply to: #2937308

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Subject: RE: Post HIM analysis
Congrats on finishing your first HIM!

I agree with your assessments and think it is great you learned a lot from your first HIM that is key to improving learning from what went right and also what went wrong.

My suggestions:
1. Doing race simulations do more like 3 hour bike at race pace watts before a 5K run.  Skiba's book is meant for MOP or FOP athletes. I currently can't hold the % FTP he recommends but I'm not MOP in HIM. With more training I believe I can get closer to his guidelines. Besides % of FTP you need to consider TSS and the longer you are out there lower your % of FTP you can ride to have same TSS.

2. Bike fitness..how many bikes over 3 hours had you done prior? How many  in 4-6 weeks prior to race?

3. How did you set your goal run pace?

Very rarely does first HIM or IM go as expected, evaluate, learn, and take that into your training so you can do better next time. It took me 5 times and 3 years of doing longer races to feel that I finally nailed a longer tri.
2010-06-22 3:47 PM
in reply to: #2937308

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NH
Subject: RE: Post HIM analysis
Totally untrained eye here, but it looks like overall a good first HIM so shortly into your tri training.  I'd be happy with that result.  I heard from a few others that their swim times were way longer than they expected, so I'd agree the swim was long.

You can wait for the expert opinions, but it simply looks like you went too hard on the bike for your current fitness and paid for it on the run.  Using a 29 mile ride and a 5k to judge the target race power was probably a little short on the bike, especially given you hadn't done many long rides going in.

But again, congrats on the finish.
2010-06-22 4:06 PM
in reply to: #2937308

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Colorado Springs
Subject: RE: Post HIM analysis

Not trying to say mean in the least bit, but you based your target wattage for a 3 hour ride off of a 5 minute test??? You've provided some good info and I think you could have done much better overall had you tested using an hour (hard for a lot of folks) or the 20 minute protocol you'll find scattered throughout the internet. First thing I can think of is you overcooked the bike.  Not just by your VI reference, but the #'s you provided with your run. Get some good test numbers under ya, some good training, and practice long course patience on the race course and you kill it next time. 

2010-06-22 4:08 PM
in reply to: #2937400

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Subject: RE: Post HIM analysis
kilo_dave - 2010-06-22 5:06 PM

Not trying to say mean in the least bit, but you based your target wattage for a 3 hour ride off of a 5 minute test??? You've provided some good info and I think you could have done much better overall had you tested using an hour (hard for a lot of folks) or the 20 minute protocol you'll find scattered throughout the internet. First thing I can think of is you overcooked the bike.  Not just by your VI reference, but the #'s you provided with your run. Get some good test numbers under ya, some good training, and practice long course patience on the race course and you kill it next time. 



Sorry, let me clarify. I think my 5 minute power test result was low, which when combined with the 20 minute test result would give an artificially high LT number. I ride every training ride with my powertap and now have almost 1 years worth of power data to work off of. I use the testing and power limit guidelines as outlined by Skiba in Triathlete's Guide to Training with Power. I agree picking a 3 hour number with just a 5 minute test would be crazy

Edited by Beej 2010-06-22 4:11 PM
2010-06-22 4:19 PM
in reply to: #2937404

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Colorado Springs
Subject: RE: Post HIM analysis

Ok that makes more sense now. I think you're right that skipping your key workouts hurt ya. If you get a chance check out"Training and Racing with Power Meter". In addition to Skiba. Do you train much in "aero"?



2010-06-22 6:08 PM
in reply to: #2937308

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Subject: RE: Post HIM analysis

If your logs are accurate it looks like a classic case of being undertrained, then pushing too hard for your fitness. Your logs don't show any bike longer than 40 miles since April and nothing even as long as 30 since May. Couple that with light volume for run training and your run fell apart as you described.

The good thing here is for the minimal amount of training you did, your results were very good. Bump up your biking to include multiple rides of 50-70 miles within 4-6 weeks of the race, and running volume consistently around 25-30 miles/week.

The more you bike and run, the bigger and better you will build your endurance base. That will allow you to not only race at a faster pace, but also to avoid slowing down so much.

All told, it was a solid effort for a first HIM and with better training you'll likely take off huge chunks of time in the next race.

2010-06-22 8:19 PM
in reply to: #2937308

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Subject: RE: Post HIM analysis
Thanks Don. It may seem strange but sometimes it's hard to read what you already know. I know I skipped or missed a bunch of long bikes over the last 6 weeks. I know my fitness level wasn't sufficient for my expectations. I also know I did a solid race given what I had put into it and the conditions on race day. It's a strange mix of being proud of my accomplishment and disappointed because I know there was more I could have done. I guess the only solution is to do more HIMs and keep improving

Thanks for the honest feedback.

2010-06-22 8:40 PM
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Subject: RE: Post HIM analysis

If you're logs are indeed correct, you were likely undertrained, and somehow did an awesome job recording a 6:12.

2010-06-23 5:52 AM
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Subject: RE: Post HIM analysis
If you want an accurate powermeter reading for use in training & racing read the link below.

Max Heart Rate sucks use Anaerobic Threshold to define your training zones more accurately..http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2010/05/quick-guide-to-training-with-heart-rate-power-and-pace.html

Edited by Dom77mu 2010-06-23 5:52 AM
2010-06-23 5:56 AM
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Subject: RE: Post HIM analysis
Great job on your first HIM!  I agree with the others that based on your training volume you did very well!



2010-06-23 7:49 AM
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NH
Subject: RE: Post HIM analysis
I kind of assumed your logs weren't accurate, but knowing they are - 6:12 on the training you did is outstanding.  Spend some more time on the bike and running and your times will be amazing.
2010-06-23 8:05 AM
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Subject: RE: Post HIM analysis
I'm using the Skiba books too, and maintaining 80% of FTP for 56 miles is challenging for me as well.  I'm putting in about 130-150 mpw on the bike.  I can just now do it, but I couldn't run off the bike afterwards. 

I'm new too, and I'd love to be able to race at 80%, but I'm going to use that as a "not to exceed" number in case I'm feeling froggy rather than a target.  70-75% is more realisitic for me at this point.  It's just a recommendation and everyone is different...you can only do what you can do.

Anyway, great race man!  Seriously, WTG, thats a great time!
2010-06-23 8:06 AM
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Subject: RE: Post HIM analysis
wbayek - 2010-06-23 8:49 AM

I kind of assumed your logs weren't accurate, but knowing they are - 6:12 on the training you did is outstanding.  Spend some more time on the bike and running and your times will be amazing.


Ok, you can all stop piling on the training volume bandwagon now. You have confirmed my suspicions

No, the logs are accurate. I have lots of good excuses for why my training slipped -- distracted supporting wife in her ultra training, death in the family, got bored training 20 weeks with no race, got bored with the program and should have tweaked it, started a new job -- but in the end they're just excuses that I could have worked around. The thing I was proudest of last season was that I never skipped two workouts in a row. Anytime I fell off of the horse I was back on the very next day. I ended up completing > 95% of my planned workouts that way. This 20 weeks period I only did 85% and it showed.

Edit: A large personal victory was that 3 weeks out I knew I had been neglecting training and got a bit down on myself. At that point I made the decision that I couldn't make up the lost time physically but I could have a positive attitude and race with what I had built.

For my first Sprint and Oly I was physically prepared but not mentally since I didn't know what to expect out of race day. This time around I spent a lot of mental effort preparing for race day and neglected my training.

I am happy with my result given my preparation level (and the race itself was a ton of fun). I definitely learned to respect the raw distance and additional strain the HIM length puts on my body as well. I'm sure next time will be an even better experience.

Edited by Beej 2010-06-23 8:08 AM
2010-06-23 8:13 AM
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Subject: RE: Post HIM analysis
Your race report on your blog is great!

You have accomplished a lot in a year and should be proud of it.

Enjoy your unstructured training while you figure out what you want to do next in the world of tris~
2010-06-23 2:36 PM
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Subject: RE: Post HIM analysis

Great job on the first HIM. I made some of the same mistakes on my first one and have been waiting a year for my oportunity at redemption. That is the way this game seems to work. I have to keep reminding myself that long course triathlon is all about being patient. How patient will you be on race day? I am hoping that my race report after the Musselman is that I should have / could have pushed harder. Your time was great be proud of your accomplishment. 

Kevin



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