All these swimming threads - "Other" strokes

Without a wetsuit (and in warm water, I consider a wetsuit a good swim ruined) I am much faster at the breaststroke than the crawl - just body positioning and musculature reasons. In addition, I swim a shorter distance because I can sight constantly. It is my responsibility to stay out of the way of other competitors. A strong breaststroke kick can break a nose 3 feet to the side. Swimming with the pack, or even down the middle where I can be overtaken, is just inconsiderate.

Because you have only done your swims in a pool I am not sure you can comprehend. When the visibility is poor and waves are tossing you it is extremely hard to avoid contact. In your pool it seems like a no brainer. 

Do this test. Close your eyes and lay on the floor. Get your wife to get down there as well. Put your head around her feet and tell her to flutter kick. (Not bad) Now position your self to the side and tell her to give you a hard breast stroke kick right in the nose. If you do this test you will come closer to understanding.

You're missing my point.  I'm not saying it's not "a" danger.  I'm saying (based on the rules) it's an UNDERSTOOD danger.

So...why all the negative comments about legal swimming?



Edited by nc452010 2010-06-29 8:38 AM

The negative comments are not about competent swimmers who happen to prefer other strokes and are considerate enough to stay out of the main lane.

And, yes, people froggy kicking do not belong in the main lane.

I told you. 

Sadly, my strongest stroke is the side stroke. I have a mental block on crawl. I am working on it. I wouldn't use a breast stroke when other people are around because it does take up too much room.

If I can convert to full crawl for my first tri, I will. I plan to start with crawl, but if I have to switch to/finish with sidestroke, I don't really care what other people think. I am competing against myself and no one else.

(I am also going, thanks to reading suggestions here, start at the back and to the side of the pack!)

I gotta agree with Karibu -- coming up on the slower folks in a previous wave, the speed differential is significant. And they're in the "main lane" flailing their legs in a wide path. You may have another swimmer to the side (from your own wave), and you CAN'T just swim around their wide kick.

Karibu:

I'm being serious.....SO, mass wave starts are part of the experience - but dealing with swimmers doing other (read - LEGAL) strokes isn't?

Yes but it is aggravating.  Bucket are allowed in the transition area but they are aggravating. It is just aggravating that's all.

Edited by Karibu 2010-06-29 8:50 AM

As someone who got an eye blacked in a race thanks to a back stroker, I will say...no, it is NOT my job to get out of your way and take a detour when you stop in the middle of the race course and start breaststroking. I am not AFRAID of being kicked, I just don't LIKE it. Contact in a tri is virtually guaranteed--lots of folks in a tiny space. But it's HIGHLY minimalized when we're all doing the same thing--crawl. I don't care if you're on the swim leg, the bike leg, or the run leg. I don't care if you're driving on the freeway... if you have to stop what you're doing and slow to stop or to do something alternate, it's YOUR responsibility to make sure the way is clear and get out of the main thoroughfare.

In addition to it being inconvenient to those around you, it's also a drain on the RDs resources. The guards are looking for people who are NOT doing the crawl. They are looking for struggling folks or people displaying signs of distress. Sidestroke, backstroke, breast stroke, dog paddle...those are all signs. You may FEEL just fine, but now a guard has to hang there and watch you--thus taking that resource away.

Here's the deal: YES you CAN legally use any stroke to complete the race. But it's DESIGNED to be done using the front crawl? Why? Because it's efficient and relatively compact. Then why can we use other strokes? B/c at some point or another we all run into a technical difficulty...broken goggles, panic attack, whathave you, and need a few strokes to regain our composure/fix our issues/assess the damage. It's designed as a safety catch...NOT a crutch for people who can't swim.

It's one thing to say "respect the distance" when it comes to the bike and run...but in those, you can always stop and walk, or drop out. In the swim, at best, people who are unprepared are using up resources that should be devoted to true emergencies and at worse...well, you drown.

The point in a tri is to swim the distance using the front crawl. (And if you want to point to the "but other strokes are LEGAL" line... well, sometimes, you have to consider the spirit of the rule, as well as the letter of it.) "Accidents" happen, and just like you may flat and have to walk your bike in, you may have to tread water or dog paddle for a minute or two. But if you cannot, using front crawl, COMPETENTLY cover not just the race distance, but over and above it... DON'T DO THE RACE.

I gotta agree with Karibu -- coming up on the slower folks in a previous wave, the speed differential is significant. And they're in the "main lane" flailing their legs in a wide path.

You mean - like approaching a biker with one on your axx? 

I'm halfway yankin' your chains.  But, the elitist attitudes come out, sometimes, here.  They're not attractive.

Edited by nc452010 2010-06-29 8:58 AM

Just do the test and it will be somewhat clearer to you.  

They are legal for the same reason it's legal to walk your bike in the ride portion if you have some sort of mechanical issue.

Sometimes, sh1t happens. You need to fix your goggles, or spit out water you just inhaled, or get your bearings, or complain that you just got kicked in the face. It's there for folks to recover from/repair an incident...NOT as a safety net because people can't swim. It's a COURTESY (well, and it makes it easier so that the RD/guards don't have to pull all those folks out.).

Sometimes people get so hung up on the LETTER of the law, the forget the spirit of it and the reason it's there.

One more thing and I am done. I am far from being an elite triathlete but for some reason I respect them. Maybe it is because they work really hard or that they know a lot more about the sport than I do. I think they deserve respect.

I gave the example about buckets in transition. To me it sounded like a good idea but when I saw the "elitists" say "please don't bring a bucket" to the OP I just said to myself OK.

I think if you stay with this long enough you won't care  much for breast strokers either.

Actually, your bike example backs her up.  You are supposed to ride as far right as safely possible, to allow faster riders to pass you.  Blocking/illegal positioning IS a time penalty in USAT races.

If I stay with this long enough, I hope they won't bother me.  I hope I remember where I came from.

Actually, your bike example backs her up.  You are supposed to ride as far right as safely possible, to allow faster riders to pass you.  Blocking/illegal positioning IS a time penalty in USAT races.
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You're being overtaken, as you BOTH roll up on a slower rider (riding on the right).  It was JUST a correlative. You can pick it to death and make anything possible.

I have NO Plans to do any other stroke than the crawl.  Have I done other strokes?  Yep.  Will, again.

  BUT, I see talking down to those who do as nothing more than elitist.  Nothing less.  It's just unattractive.

Edited by nc452010 2010-06-29 9:16 AM

Yes. Frankly, I fully believe that the way the sport was intended was for people to swim using the front crawl. And I think the fact that most folks say "I try  to crawl, but then have to use backstroke part of the way" or "Well, I can only crawl 50 meters, but can finish it breaststroke" indicates that people realize that the intended form is front crawl.

Front crawl is the most efficient, fastest way to go from a to b. It's also the safest for the people around you (yes, I know you get kicked in a mass start with freestyle, or crawled over...but your "window" is much smaller), and easiest for the RD and guards to ascertain if you are okay.

I'm not an "elitist". (And I'm not really sure what you think that is, aside from someone who doesn't agree with your view point) I firmly believe that there is a place for everyone in this sport. But I think WAY WAY WAY too many people come into the swim under- or ill-prepared--and the primary hallmark for that is not being able to do an overdistance swim in basic crawl. On the bike and run that lack of preparation it may suck for them, but on the swim it can be deadly.

Beginners are great. Long-time vets are great. Slow people, fast people, fat people, skinny people, people of all colors, genders, and sexual orientations are great. But don't go out there unless you are ready. Why rush it? What's the hurry?

I don't think people who dislike others doing breaststroke has anything to do with being elitist. Getting kicked while swimming sucks, and a breaststroker is much more likely to kick somebody swimming near them.

With near zero visibilty in many OWS, it's not like it's easy to see who ahead of you is doing what stroke. You don't get the chance to think, "Hey, there's someone doing breaststroke. I think I'll give them a wide berth" because you don't usually realize they're doing breaststroke until you get a kick in the gut or head.

I don't think ANYONE is saying "Oh, you can only do that one stroke ever and if you don't your race is over." I said, sometimes, something happens, and you have to switch to another stroke to fix/repair/recover/maneuver whatever.

The ISSUE that people are having, or the point that some folks (myself included) are trying to make is: Saying "oh, well, i can only make it 50, 100, 500 meters before I have to stop if I crawl, so I'll just do the dog paddle or the back stroke to survive the swim."

RELYING on another stroke to cover the distance because you can't consistently cover it with the crawl nis dangerous.

(And, the second point folks are making is breast stroke and back stroke are rude to use around other people. Pull off to the side if you must.)

In this context, "elitist" is someone who only has ONE point of view (and is sure that it's correct - even though the rules of the contest cite otherwise).

I don't disgree that the crawl is the most widely accepted stroke (and, for good reason).  I'm just thinking there's a good reason RD's don't specify it as the only stroke to be utilized.  You're disqualifying a LOT of triathletes, if you go this route.  Dealing with people swimming other strokes is just another part of it.  It's JUST my opinion that they shouldn't be treated like lepers.  They're playing by the rules.

RELYING on another stroke to cover the distance because you can't consistently cover it with the crawl nis dangerous.

See....I just don't understand this.  Relying on your strongest stroke is what I think everyone does.  Shouldn't the only (and I think it is) concern be......can you make the distance?

Edited by nc452010 2010-06-29 10:32 AM