General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Total Immersion - The Answer? Rss Feed  
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2011-05-09 2:40 PM


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Subject: Total Immersion - The Answer?

Hi,

I am wondering if Total Immersion swimming instruction videos/books are as good as the TI website says they are. I am not making a lot of progress with swimming and I want to know if the three book/video collection for open water/triathlon swimming is worth the $70 that the TI website is selling them for.

Has anyone made significant progress with the TI program/books? And has anyone read/watched the three book/video collection for open water triathlon swimming?

Appreciate the answers you can provide.

John



2011-05-09 2:41 PM
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Subject: RE: Total Immersion - The Answer?
"Total Immersion - The Answer?"

What's the question? Yes, maybe, hard to say.

Edited by bryancd 2011-05-09 2:42 PM
2011-05-09 2:49 PM
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Subject: RE: Total Immersion - The Answer?

have the book have the vid.  did it help....some will say yes some will say its garbage...i was an ok swimmer and it made me more efficient but i don't swim nearly enough to move me to the next bracket. 

i think its a good start as far as self coaching is concerned better then majority out there.  but it won't beat real coaching. 

2011-05-09 2:56 PM
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Subject: RE: Total Immersion - The Answer?
I'm a fan of TI because it has helped me swim further, easier and much less fatigue. There are some significant changes that I made based on the combination of the book and watching some videos.

As far as recommending it for you based on where you are stagnated, I don't think I can do that without more info. What are your swim times, distances and perceived effort? What have you been doing up to this time?

TI takes a commitment to start from the beginning and so you shouldn't expect a quick answer.

As far as method of learning, I would prefer a knowledgeable instructor rather than book and video any day. As a person who taught swimming for years and still had to re-learn my stroke, don't take for granted that every swim instructor knows the nuances of teaching the freestyle stroke.

A TI instructor would probably be awesome.
2011-05-09 3:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Total Immersion - The Answer?
I like TI. I bought the book and DVD, but didn't really see significant improvement until I took lessons from a TI trained instructor. I am not sure that I am all that much faster, but I do feel I am more efficient and swim with more ease and less work now than before.
2011-05-09 3:24 PM
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Subject: RE: Total Immersion - The Answer?
As a 40 y/o who'd never had swim lessons, could only dogpaddle, and with a fear of deep water, I bought the video, book and drill cards. My kicks caused me to go in reverse, to the amusement of many around me! Although I had run marathons and biked centuries, I couldn't swim the 25 yd length of the pool without feeling like I was dying.
So with a pair of cut-down fins, I practiced the drills daily until I could put them all together into a real stroke and finally something clicked! I did my first Sprint Tri that next weekend (300 yd swim! I drove to another state because it was the shortest swim I could find! haha).
Now, swimming is my favorite activity. I can swim for literally hours without stopping, albeit still not very fast. I've completed a 5k swim, and did my first Half Iron a few years ago.
While it might not be for everyone, the TI method has been a great thing for me!


2011-05-09 3:31 PM
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Subject: RE: Total Immersion - The Answer?

I took private TI lessons.

I learned a lot of bad habits that I still have from that program.

My suggestion would be to try to take some local private lessons or if you want an on line swim program that you can work through try www.findingfreestyle.com

I learned a lot with the Finding Freestyle program and made some speed gains after many years of different private swim lessons with 4 different private swim coaches.

2011-05-09 3:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Total Immersion - The Answer?

Well, here's my n=1 sample size.  For my 1st sprint try, I really didn't do much in the way of "learning to swim", hell, I'd been raised on the lakes, I knew how to swim!!  I muscled my way through the 500yd swim in just under 16 minutes (3m12s / 100yd) with several pauses, and a good section spent in the backstroke. Plus I was exhausted to the point of disorientation when I finished.  I figured out that I could "not drown if thrown from a boat swim", not swim efficiently. 

That next winter I read the TI book, practiced the drills religiously and slowly built up yardage.  The next summer at the same race I finished the swim in 9:45 with plenty left in the tank.  Not world-class by any means, but ridiculously better from the year before.  As other posters have said, if I decide to take my swimming to the next level, I'd probably need to look into something else, but for the purposes of a rank amateur it worked perfectly...

2011-05-09 3:39 PM
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Subject: RE: Total Immersion - The Answer?
I have had the book for over 10yrs, got the DVD a few years ago and I got a lot more out of the book than I did the DVD.
2011-05-09 3:43 PM
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2011-05-09 3:52 PM
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Subject: RE: Total Immersion - The Answer?
You may also want to check out www.swimsmooth.com.  I did the TI book, DVD's, and a weekend seminar.  Looking back I think I would have been better off doing the Swimsmooth technique.


2011-05-09 4:31 PM
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Subject: RE: Total Immersion - The Answer?

From what I've observed in other people, TI is a good way to self coach yourself from zero to SOMETHING, where SOMETHING is better than what you have now, but nowhere near your full potential. 

If you already have a good swim base, or semi-decent form, I'd stay away from it, and look into more individualized coaching if feasible.  Join a local triathlon club and you'll probably find someone with a swimming background willing to teach you a few things.

A lot of people have had success with TI, there's no denying that.  There's also no denying that it comes across as one giant infomercial.

I disagree with a lot of the techniques TI teaches, and in my opinion they emphasis/exacerbate poor form.  I also think TI tends to treat the swim as something of an annoyance in a triathlon, and that you're primary goal should simply be to come out of the water as fresh as possible, but not necessarily at the front of the pack.

2011-05-09 4:55 PM
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Subject: RE: Total Immersion - The Answer?
For the value of the book and dvd vs the 2 coaches I saw. I got wayyy more from TI. But that was because the coaching was expensive and inconvenient. The first coach Seemed intent on making me a 50m specialist and impinging my shoulders. I didn't see her again. The other coach was an experienced triathlete and was good, but at a certain point I had learn stuff on my own.

I think there is a paradox in swimming in that those who need coaching the most (total newbs) may get the least out of it because they have so far to go. The type of attention needed to get you on track isn't always practical for a working adult. Without experience it may be difficult to even recognize a good coach.

What I liked about TI is the emphasis on relaxation increases your water confidence and makes you more open to learning.

Now the triathlete did take me to the beach and taught me a load of surf entry/exit and wetsuit stripping techniques. Hard to get that from a video.

Tri Swim Secrets has really good drills, too.

I'm not knocking coaches by any means. I think sometimes its can be hard for someone who has swam all their life to get into the head of an inexperienced swimmer. So the communication breaks down.

But, to answer the question: NO, it is not the "answer". It can give you a great start. But swimming is like Golf or Yoga. To keep improving you must make it a practice.

Edited by Broompatrol 2011-05-09 4:58 PM
2011-05-09 5:03 PM
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Subject: RE: Total Immersion - The Answer?

I purchased the book when learning to swim last year and it did help me some, especially with breathing and just becoming comfortable in the water.  I now take lessons from my local Y, not TI lessons, and have made tremendous gains, for me.  I think there is a time and a place for both just not sure where you are currently.  If you are a fairly proficient swimmer I would say invest your money with a good swim coach or a masters class. 

2011-05-09 6:12 PM
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Subject: RE: Total Immersion - The Answer?
jbartch - 2011-05-09 2:40 PM

Hi,

I am wondering if Total Immersion swimming instruction videos/books are as good as the TI website says they are. I am not making a lot of progress with swimming and I want to know if the three book/video collection for open water/triathlon swimming is worth the $70 that the TI website is selling them for.

Has anyone made significant progress with the TI program/books? And has anyone read/watched the three book/video collection for open water triathlon swimming?

Appreciate the answers you can provide.

John

I just got the book and DVD from the library...much cheaper Laughing

2011-05-09 10:16 PM
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Subject: RE: Total Immersion - The Answer?

Broompatrol - 2011-05-09 5:55 PM For the value of the book and dvd vs the 2 coaches I saw. I got wayyy more from TI. But that was because the coaching was expensive and inconvenient.
...
What I liked about TI is the emphasis on relaxation increases your water confidence and makes you more open to learning.
...

But, to answer the question: NO, it is not the "answer". It can give you a great start. But swimming is like Golf or Yoga. To keep improving you must make it a practice.

 

+1. And there is no "answer". To get better swimming, you have to do it alot and learn to ask better "questions" of your body/stroke to find out what's really optimal for you. Terry's method seeks to expedite that process, as do swimsmooth, findingfreestyle, etc. So, I like TI, but not more/less than the other programs.

-Jason



2011-05-09 10:51 PM
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Subject: RE: Total Immersion - The Answer?

As a relatively new adult swimmer, I started with TI, and can give my own personal experience with it.

 

The book was great for really starting out as a total newbie swimmer. The core concepts are correct - body position and technique are emphasized, and the idea of 'swimming easy' is correct for the new swimmer. I was surprised how quickly I was able to 'cover the distance' after doing the floating type drills, which helped me really relax in the water.

 

The main problem I had and still have with TI - at least to me, it feels over-sold. I know many on this forum disagree with this, but that's just my own experience. The book seems to imply swimming easy all the time will make you faster, but that's simply not true - as with any sport, you have to work quite hard to get better, which means a good amount of gut-busting intervals and distance work. 

 

I honestly didn't make ANY speed progress with swimming until working hard in the pool. With TI's 'easy swimming' approach, I was bottom 5% AG on the swim. I quickly moved up to top 3rd after leaving 'swimming easy' and going to 'swimming hard but cleanly.' Others have had better results than me with the swim, but I don't feel as if I'm too far off the mark for endurance athletes. 

 

2011-05-10 8:16 AM
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Subject: RE: Total Immersion - The Answer?
agarose2000 - 2011-05-09 11:51 PM

 The main problem I had and still have with TI - at least to me, it feels over-sold. I know many on this forum disagree with this, but that's just my own experience. The book seems to imply swimming easy all the time will make you faster, but that's simply not true - as with any sport, you have to work quite hard to get better, which means a good amount of gut-busting intervals and distance work. 

I honestly didn't make ANY speed progress with swimming until working hard in the pool. With TI's 'easy swimming' approach, I was bottom 5% AG on the swim. I quickly moved up to top 3rd after leaving 'swimming easy' and going to 'swimming hard but cleanly.' Others have had better results than me with the swim, but I don't feel as if I'm too far off the mark for endurance athletes.

Swimming easy is a great way to survive the swim and start the bike as fresh as possible.  However, it's also a great way to leave a lot of minutes and seconds on the clock you don't need to.

2011-05-10 9:01 AM
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Subject: RE: Total Immersion - The Answer?
KathyG - 2011-05-09 4:31 PM

I took private TI lessons.

I learned a lot of bad habits that I still have from that program.

My suggestion would be to try to take some local private lessons or if you want an on line swim program that you can work through try www.findingfreestyle.com

I learned a lot with the Finding Freestyle program and made some speed gains after many years of different private swim lessons with 4 different private swim coaches.

 

Bad coach or TI itself?  I've spent $$ on bad coaching before trying TI's Easy Freestyle DVD.  Was struggling to finish sprint swim before TI, but now swimming >1mi straight.  Not yet ready for full IM swim, but TI helped me finish 1st HIM in my 2nd yr of tri.

I am not "TI-only" zealot, but am firm believer in 2bt kick for triathlon.   No single learning method (inc TI) is best for everyone, but many have used TI to grasp the basics (balance, breathing, rotation, etc.).  IMHO TI is not the best for fine points of sprinting (e.g. optimizing catch & pull for breaking 1min/100M), but for newb endurance swimming I'm not sure what "bad habits" come from TI. 

I do not agree that TI is necessarily "slow swimming" without improved fitness.  Most all coaches, inc TI, say that swim speed ultimately comes with more time spent in the water.  Swim sets (ladders, etc) are not inconsistent with TI, and many TI coaches seem to use them.  But as in any technical sport, practice must be focused to yield improvement.  The notion that doing endless hard swim sets may too often ingrain bad stroke habits is not unique to TI or TI coaches.  To me it's a philosophical spectrum of physiologic fitness gain vs risk of ingraining faults.  TI generally avoids the latter like the plague, and that approach seems to work for many.



Edited by Oldteen 2011-05-10 9:30 AM
2011-05-10 9:05 AM
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Subject: RE: Total Immersion - The Answer?

I used the videos with good success.  I was basically a newbie who wanted to try Triathlons so I needed to swim.  This is a great program to assist you with being balanced and streamlined in the water. 

However, be prepared that you will be doing lots and lots of drilling.  You will need to be very patient but it will be worth it. (or it was for me)


I did have two sessions with a TI coach who helped me to give me live feedback.  This was also helpful.

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