General Discussion Triathlon Talk » MHR vs VO2 max vs LT? Rss Feed  
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2006-03-07 12:17 PM

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Subject: MHR vs VO2 max vs LT?
Can somebody clear up for me the way these three metrics (MHR,VO2 max,LT) correspond? I understand training through percentages of MHR, but how does that correspond to V02 or LT?

Thanks!


2006-03-07 12:27 PM
in reply to: #363199

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Coach
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Subject: RE: MHR vs VO2 max vs LT?
http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp...

Start with the thread above for HR & LT questions. VO2 max is an OK test to see your progress over time (annually for example), and while you are getting your VO2 tested, you can get your HR at VO2 max, and your HR at LT as well, but strictly knowing just your VO2 max doesn't really help with your training, in that a VO2 max can't help you determine paces or HR training zones for your daily activities.

For everyday training, I would learn about intensitiy using Perceived exertion and heart rate to start with, when you are fit enough, try a field trial to get your LT and further refine your training zones.

THe thread linked above is long, but has some great info.
2006-03-07 12:32 PM
in reply to: #363199

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Columbus, OH
Subject: RE: MHR vs VO2 max vs LT?
So I can think of VO2 max similar to RHR, then - nice to measure to see improvement over the long term, but not relevant as far as training zones.

Is it a decent measurement of LT for that that point when I go from breathing nice and easy to huffing and puffing? If I know my HR at that point, is there a formula to figure out MHR from there?

Thanks!
2006-03-07 12:36 PM
in reply to: #363221

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Elite
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Subject: RE: MHR vs VO2 max vs LT?
forget the concept of MHR and you'll be much happier.  It's really hard to attach an RPE to your LT until you figure your LT out and do some training there, so you really need to do the field test to find it, then  use the Freil Zones based off the LT.
2006-03-07 12:42 PM
in reply to: #363199

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Coach
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Subject: RE: MHR vs VO2 max vs LT?
If you know your HR at lactate threshold/ventilatory threshold (not identical but bear with me...) then you can base all of your training zones on %age of lactate threshold heartrate, and not on max heart rate. The concept of max heart rate is flawed (IMO) based on personal experience as aphysician with both sick & healthy patients, as well as listening to recent lectures by a cardiologist/physiologist.

First, it is exetrememly hard to push yourself to the point where you actually see how fast your heart rate can go. It is a difficult endeavor, and are you really pushing yourself hard/long enough to see what the maximum your heart can do? I see people all the time in the hospital with heart rates of 220 due to abnormal electrical conduction. Sure, it's not beating that fast because of exercise, but clearly the heart is capable of a lot that it is unreasonable to try and force it to do. OK, max HR rant over.

THe point is, you don't need Max HR at all. Finding your HR at the point where you start to breath hard or "laboriously" is a reasonable first approximation of your ventilatory threshold, which is going to be somewhat close to your lactate threshold. Joe Friel's Triathlete's Training Bible offers a table of percentages of lactate threshold heartrates to define zones. I think they are listed in the thread linked above.

However, if you are new to endurnance training, I wouldn't suggest trying to find your ventilatory threshold and then basing training off that, at least not going strictly by the numbers...there's just too much variability in that ventilatory threshold to try and apply any math with precision. The resulting zones that you'll come up with will have such a singnificant degree of overlap with what is really going on wiht your cardiovascular system, that you would be better off just using the rate of percieved exertion and not worrying about math and heart rates yet.

If you are already beyond that stage, (and it sounds like you are), the definately read Friel's TTTB for more detailed info on all of the quesions you are asking. He provides many testing protocols that are easy to do and only take 20 minutes or so and a partner to help record data.

Hope that helps.
2006-03-07 12:51 PM
in reply to: #363199

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Columbus, OH
Subject: RE: MHR vs VO2 max vs LT?
Thanks for the help. I did my first sprint tri last year in the middle of training for a marathon. This year I'm getting serious about the tri training, but have a decent idea of my run zones. I always wondered about how acccurate MHR is. I start to huff and puff at around 175, 180 bpm, but at my age (36) that should be my max according to the formulas, not my training zone!

I'm not sure having a LT around 175 is good or bad, especially since I'm not a fast runner.

I have the Tri Bible. I'll look at it again and see if I can run some LT tests this weekend.



2006-03-07 12:56 PM
in reply to: #363256

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Elite
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Subject: RE: MHR vs VO2 max vs LT?

Your LT is just a number.  There really is no good or bad to it.  It just depends on the individual.  As you train, you LT may go up, it may go down, it may stay the same.  That doesn't give you an indication of fitness.  The only thing that does is the pace at which you can sustain LT.  So every time you run your 30" TT to find your LT, it should get faster.

And those age based MHR tables are crap.  You could be more accurate grabbing numbers out of a hat. 

2006-03-07 1:02 PM
in reply to: #363256

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Not a Coach
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Subject: RE: MHR vs VO2 max vs LT?

Check the thread out linked above if you haven't.  But here's how to to get your run-LT for training purposes this weekend:

10-15min warm-up, then
30min as hard as you can, at 10min into the run hit the lap button on your HR monitor in order to get the average HR for the last 20min
That avg. HR is your LT.
10min cool-down

Ideally the 30min TT should be run at a steady pace where you have nothing left in the tank by the end.

Same basic process for the bike, but warm-up for 15-20min.  And best not to do the 2 tests on consecutive days.

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