General Discussion Triathlon Talk » How fast should I be doing my swim sets Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
2012-02-21 3:41 PM

User image

Veteran
820
500100100100
Omaha, NE
Subject: How fast should I be doing my swim sets
An interesting question, how should I do rpe, based off as fast as I can possibly go, about 1:30 per 100 with bad form, or as fast as I can possibly go with good form, about 1:42 per 100.Working on the insurance with the new form, it is using more muscle holding onto the water, vs sloshing through it and going faster with bad form at much higher rpm's.So how do I do my sets on speed day, obviously I want to build up the muscle/endurace to hold the good form, then up the cadence ever so sliightly, does this sound like the right approach?Hopes this makes sense, going fast I'm using about 22 stokes per length and going slower 17-18 so obviously my rpm's are much lower, but going further, I seem to be less winded, but it takes more to hold on, rather than let go and go to the next stroke.Eventually I think the good more will catch up with the speed I see with the bad, so continue based off the slower times in relation to rpe?


2012-02-21 4:04 PM
in reply to: #4059022

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.
2012-02-21 4:27 PM
in reply to: #4059022

Master
2372
20001001001002525
Subject: RE: How fast should I be doing my swim sets
You can find out what you need to be doing by trial and error.  Go out and do 10x100 with :10 rest in between (you'll find the right pace).  Good threshold set.  For speed work, do something like 10x100 on 3:00 with each 100 hard.  Then just repeat those sets until you puke.  Practice well executed.
2012-02-21 4:41 PM
in reply to: #4059022

Deep in the Heart of Texas
Subject: RE: How fast should I be doing my swim sets
I don't think there is any benefit from doing sets with bad form, fast or otherwise.  I would go as fast as possible with good form, not perfect, but at least fundamentally sound.  Then use other sets in your workout to work out any hitches that arise when you speed up. 
2012-02-21 6:22 PM
in reply to: #4059022

Expert
2547
200050025
The Woodlands, TX
Subject: RE: How fast should I be doing my swim sets
use the good form and use an interval of 1:50 until you consistently get more than 15 secs rest, then move the interval down to 1:45 until you get more than....
2012-02-21 6:30 PM
in reply to: #4059381

Coach
9167
5000200020001002525
Stairway to Seven
Subject: RE: How fast should I be doing my swim sets
tjfry - 2012-02-21 5:22 PM

use the good form and use an interval of 1:50 until you consistently get more than 15 secs rest, then move the interval down to 1:45 until you get more than....


^^^This,^^^ but you can also build on it...you don't have to always do 100s.

If you can use good form (count strokes to keep track) on 1:50 for a set of 6 or more 100s, then add these sets as well over a period of a few weeks:
4 x 150 on 2:45 aim for 10-15 sec rest
3 x 200 on 3:20 aim for 15-20 sec rest

As fitness / endurance / ability to hold good form improve, add more repetitions, or increase the length of the repeats. When you can do the 200s consistently with ample rest and good form, then start decreasing the interval period for the 200s...and start adding 300s, 400s, 500s at the old interval sendoff. Etc, etc.

You can add a longer stroke at your previous "best SPL & Pace" combo at the same time you decrease yoru interval for the 100s as your form and pace improves. That way you can start to create interesting sets.


2012-02-22 8:40 AM
in reply to: #4059022

Not a Coach
11473
5000500010001001001001002525
Media, PA
Subject: RE: How fast should I be doing my swim sets

I would defer to TJ on this (and pretty much all things swimming-related), but I'd ask if you could do either the 'bad' or 'good' for the same workout.  That is, if the workout was 10 x 100 with roughly 15" rest, could you hit all the intervals at 1:30 with 'bad' form?  Or do you die after 2 or 3 and fade towards 1:40 or slower.  If the former, your 'bad' form may not be as bad as you think.  If the latter, then you probably already have your answer.

Again, if TJ says he's seen this a million times and do the 1:50s, regardless, then listen to him. 

FWIW, I can hit a similar pace as you on a very hard 100.  But then I am gassed.  To do the set I listed above, I would need to swim at close to 1:40s.

2012-02-22 9:13 AM
in reply to: #4059022

Veteran
820
500100100100
Omaha, NE
Subject: RE: How fast should I be doing my swim sets

Thanks for the info guys, I am following the swim plan in the BT HIM 20 week plan. For instance yesterday was

WU 250 bilateral

400 / 4x100 / 300 / 3x100 / 200 / 2x100 long were RPE 4, 100's RPE 7-8

CD 3x75 each one slower

I'm doing a pretty much the plan to the T, the only real difference is when it guves me a pull or kick set, i just swim those with good form. So my plan has a variety of long sets, 100's etc etc. I see next week I have a 20x75 coming up.

Probably the biggest difference in my swimming from last year is volume, I'm just got started for the year Feb 1 and have been swimming 3x per week at 5-6k total whereas last year I averaged about 5k per month, with a high month of 8k. I'll be at about 25k this month, so there ya have it.

Not the 15-20k per week like some of you, but a big increase for me, I'm sure once IM training starts in July my numbers will go up more.

Sorry about the first post, for some reason when I post from my iPad even though I space it, it bunches it all together.

2012-02-22 9:28 AM
in reply to: #4060112

Expert
2547
200050025
The Woodlands, TX
Subject: RE: How fast should I be doing my swim sets
JohnnyKay - 2012-02-22 8:40 AM

I would defer to TJ on this (and pretty much all things swimming-related), but I'd ask if you could do either the 'bad' or 'good' for the same workout.  That is, if the workout was 10 x 100 with roughly 15" rest, could you hit all the intervals at 1:30 with 'bad' form?  Or do you die after 2 or 3 and fade towards 1:40 or slower.  If the former, your 'bad' form may not be as bad as you think.  If the latter, then you probably already have your answer.

Again, if TJ says he's seen this a million times and do the 1:50s, regardless, then listen to him. 

FWIW, I can hit a similar pace as you on a very hard 100.  But then I am gassed.  To do the set I listed above, I would need to swim at close to 1:40s.

I think you're right that the bad form probably isn't that bad, but if you've made changes in your stroke then you need to give yourself a grace period on performance, and you will see the times start dropping as the new form becomes normal, hence the slower interval to start with. So in the set you mentioned, you should have a 7:20 interval for the 400 (not goal time, but the time you push off the wall for the next repeat) and 100's on the 1:50. That's probably going to get pretty easy pretty quick, so if you find yourself sitting on the wall for 20 secs in the 100's, then you need to bring that interval down. Also, do some pull and some kick sets when they're prescribed. There's a reason for these sets.

2012-02-22 11:41 AM
in reply to: #4059022


5

Subject: RE: How fast should I be doing my swim sets

I am in a similar position as the original poster.  I was only swimming 3500 yds a week and stuck at a 100 interval pace of around 1:45 to 1:50.  After doubling my weekly volume for the last month, I am now able to do 10x100 on 1:55 with all 100s at 1:35 or faster pace.  Often I can do the last 3 sub 1:30.  The problem is that my form still looks terrible.  I had someone videotape me the other day and I look no better than I did in October, same crossover problem, not enough rotation, parachuting kick with one leg, you name it.  But I am significantly faster than I was in October.

Should I still incorporate a lot of drills into my set to try and fix my form?  If I do drills it always lowers my total volume for the workout since I don't have 90 minutes to spend in the pool during the weekday.  If I can swim the final 3 100s in a long set at 1:25 pace, does that mean my form may be good enough and I should just keep swimming harder and longer sets?  I have a feeling that if I fixed a few flaws in my stroke (and there are many), I could drop those interval times below 1:20 pace at an easier effort.

 

New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » How fast should I be doing my swim sets Rss Feed