Chicago Woman Sues McDonalds (Page 6)

I'll start with your sweeping statement that everyone loses when an adult goes off on a child. If I understood correctly, that means raising your voice. If so, that statement is about as accurate as "violence is never a correct response", another sweeping statement that has proven to be naive and unrealistic. One's voice, and the manner it it used, is a tool, just like anything else, and sometimes can be used as such very effectivly. In some cases, raising ones voice can be a calculated decision, and should be done. No "research" to back this up, just many years of experience, logic and common sense.

 Next we go to credibility. No, you do not necessarily need research in order to be credible. On occasion, common sense, experience and precedent will do the job. For example, my son's previous second grade teacher can give a nice researched opinion on whatever she wants, but since all precedent has shown that she is a teacher who does not make any effort to be a good teacher, despite her many years on the job, then her credibility is somewhat suspect.

Regarding my taking things out of context, and your correction, which was:

"What I would take away from yours, from my very researched non expert take on the advice you were given is, it's good to have kid buyin, so having them give input about rules can be a good thing. Of course for safety there has to be non negotiables, and I do not negotiate with an 8 year old."

that sounds very similar to:

"With all due respect, me and my 8 year old twins don't have an equal vote"

and

"We will take the kids opinions and desires into account, listen to what they have to say, accommodate if possible, but the end decision is ours, the adults."

Which is actually what I said. Perhaps you should have read my response more thoroughly?

Lastly, regarding my taking an isolated example out of context, can you explain how you reached this conclusion, since you weren't there, and have no idea what the context was?

I understand your position, I just disagree. And stick with my sweeping statement. 

Your original statement included the "majority" of child experts. Not your child's 2nd teacher. I don't agree with all the methods used by the teachers at my school, but I don't discount the fact that there is a lot of great resources out there for parents. 

Agreed. The word that struck me was "dictatorship". And from what you said, the teacher you referenced was talking in terms of making family "plans". Maybe  the teacher wasn't implying complete democracy either when she was discussing the issue. You are right, I wasn't there, but I do understand the concept of having kids help with making family plans (even rules) and voting on them, as a way of encouraging buyin. Were I a teacher, discussing certain issues with parents, that is an angle I might take. It might be possible that you misunderstood her? 

This is the sentence I questioned the most. You haven't mentioned anything that you've read, and only one "memorable" experience, and yet you used the words "majority" and "much" and the words "idiotic" and "naive".

My personal opinion is that there are actually a lot of great resources for parents out there to help them. And I personally think it's a bit foolish and naive to think most new parents couldn't benefit from researching them. 

I stand corrected. I should have said that these are the majority of "experts" that I have heard. Also, while I do not automatically discount every expert, many of them are either living in their own world, or stating the obvious. I agree that there are quite a few experts that have something good to say, but my choice is to figure things on my own. However, we have a bit of balance, since my wife will see what is said on a topic, and we will discuss before deciding.

In this case, no. It seemed so silly, that I made sure to ask and clarify what she meant, a number of times, in a number of ways. All plans/topics are on the table, each family member has a equal vote.

Actually, I gave two examples. There was also the example that if you carefully explain to the child what you want, and do it eye to eye, the child will always do as you wish. I believe that the words "idiotic" and "naive" are spot on here.

Yes, there are a great many resources for new parents, and quite a few for not-so-new parents also. And each and every one of these resources should be double checked, and taken with a grain of salt, for two reasons:

First, fads and knowledge change. Popular advise one year might be termed the devil's advice the next. I grew up in the Middle East, and years ago it was a FACT that babies need to drink a lot of water so as not to dehydrate. These days they are aware that if a baby breastfeeds, s/he is getting sufficient liquids. So our oldest son did not get water, despite the VERY firm advise we got from the mothers (must be the first and last time that they ever agreed on anything), and they had legitimate sources to back them up. And the child survived, by the way.

Second, in the end the one responsible is the parent, not the expert. I've seen to many parent's turn their brains off and do what the "expert" said, without question. But when things go wrong, the expert is not there.

Well, I agree with you for the most part. And I think you made it pretty clear that your statements were based on what you'd "seen" and "read". But I had to speak up in defense of some of the excellent research that has been done on the topic of parenting. I've personally gotten some great practical help that I think has made me a more effective parent. 

All the best to you and your family. :=)