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Flounder in the pool...
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 2014-05-09 7:38 AM |
 2 |  Subject: Flounder in the pool...Greetings! It's day 2 of the "22-Wk Couch-to-Tri' training for a 'big' Sprint Tri the first weekend in Oct. The Brierman Sprint in MD will consist of a lake swim of 800yds, 20mi of rolling hills on the bike and a 6K run on similar rolling hills. Plenty of time, I'm not going to panic...yet. The cycling I have covered, no worries there, and I know I can remember how to run again. But like so many others, the pool is highly suspect. I know I'll figure it out, I'm already seeing improvement...however... My question is this: While I'm trying to figure it out, and create some sort of technic, what counts as training? Today was a good effort, I managed 2 lengths with out stopping, coming up short, or ingesting .5gal of pool H2o (can I count that as re-hydrating, by the way?). While not in succession, I STILL DID IT! Are those the only ones that count, or, do the failed, floundering attempts count as well? For 'time' in the pool, is that total time in the water, or, add the time of the various lengths/laps I'm piecing together? I'm sure I'm over analyzing this, but hey, I'm a Virgo - I can't help it! Thanks for any assistance you may be willing to share. Flounder in training Sex: M Age: 49 Height: 5'9" Weight: 232 |
| 2014-05-09 8:01 AM in reply to: drb20176 |
Veteran 327  | Subject: RE: Flounder in the pool... I think you may be concentrating on the wrong part of "swim training." You are splitting hairs that really don't matter as far as how many laps or how many minutes of swim training you can count. If you are struggling to swim 1-2 lengths of the pool then spending 30 minutes or 15 hours in the pool with bad technique is not going to do you much good. The most frequent advice given on this board (for good reason) is to start with a swim coach. In order to swim effeciently you first need to learn correct body position and stroke mechanics. You cannot make this up as you go and expect to be a good swimmer. A good swim coach is going to address the issues you have with your swimming and give you drills and workouts to work specifically on those issues. Swimming for 10 minutes using drills and workouts designed by a good coach to help you will go a lot further than 2 hours of bad training on your own. Just my $.02 |
| 2014-05-09 8:03 AM in reply to: drb20176 |
Pro 5755  | Subject: RE: Flounder in the pool... Originally posted by drb20176 Greetings! It's day 2 of the "22-Wk Couch-to-Tri' training for a 'big' Sprint Tri the first weekend in Oct. The Brierman Sprint in MD will consist of a lake swim of 800yds, 20mi of rolling hills on the bike and a 6K run on similar rolling hills. Plenty of time, I'm not going to panic...yet. The cycling I have covered, no worries there, and I know I can remember how to run again. But like so many others, the pool is highly suspect. I know I'll figure it out, I'm already seeing improvement...however... My question is this: While I'm trying to figure it out, and create some sort of technic, what counts as training? Today was a good effort, I managed 2 lengths with out stopping, coming up short, or ingesting .5gal of pool H2o (can I count that as re-hydrating, by the way?). While not in succession, I STILL DID IT! Are those the only ones that count, or, do the failed, floundering attempts count as well? For 'time' in the pool, is that total time in the water, or, add the time of the various lengths/laps I'm piecing together? I'm sure I'm over analyzing this, but hey, I'm a Virgo - I can't help it! Thanks for any assistance you may be willing to share. Flounder in training Sex: M Age: 49 Height: 5'9" Weight: 232 Flounder, meet manatee. There are some excellent swimmers here who can give good advice, so I'll give you the perspective from someone who is NOT a good swimmer. First, have you swam laps before? I'm assuming not, based on what you've written. The absolute best thing you can do is get some coaching, right from the start. Swimming is technical, and all about form and efficiency. Time in the pool is important, but it's the quality time swimming that really counts. If you haven't swam before, just getting used to having your face in the water and learning to breathe are a challenge. But swimming properly with decent form is more important than total time in the pool. Reinforcing bad habits doesn't help you become a good swimmer. I'm going back to the drawing board with coaching next week because this is exactly what I've been doing, and I'm not improving. Good luck! |
| 2014-05-09 8:08 AM in reply to: 0 |
788 Across the river from Memphis, Tennessee | Subject: RE: Flounder in the pool... I can only give you my own expeience. I jumped in the pool in February. I grew up swimming in pools, on the coast, in lakes and rivers... but I never really swam for speed or distance. I'm assuming that you have having the rough start I did. Getting my strokes and breathing in time without feeling like I was going to drown was the biggest thing. I started out doing 25yds at a time and gasping for air at the end of each length. That slowly grew to 50, 100 and 150. I didn't keep track of time so much as total distance. I pretty much felt that the need to get to 450yds by May 17th was the primary goal. How long it took to swim that distance didn't matter so long as I came out of the water breathing and under my own power  . I got pointers from a lifeguard at my local Y. I am also lucky enough to have a friend who does this too (he's actually doing the Gulf Coast HIM this weekend), who has taken a couple of mornings to jump in the pool with me and straighten things out. Just pushing myself to make the distances didn't work. I had to relax in the water. After I did that my distances increased, and I even popped out a 1000 not too long ago. My speed has even picked up just a bit. I would say that ANY time swimming in the pool counts as training at the beginning (our) level. The biggest thing you really need to watch out for at this point are the glaring form errors. For example, I breathe on my right side... period. Wednesday, after my regular swim, I decided to try the left side out. Yeah... If I did that in my sprint next weekend, I seriously doubt I'd make my goal of coming out of the water under my own power, much less breathing. So I know that after this race, I need to do a LOT of pull drills, breathing on the left side (or both) to correct that form problem. *EDIT* LOL! My example of minimal coaching, and now having issues just proved the point of the posters above! Edited by WebFootFreak 2014-05-09 8:10 AM |
| 2014-05-09 8:12 AM in reply to: drb20176 |
Master 3205  ann arbor, michigan | Subject: RE: Flounder in the pool... When I started I was essentially starting from zero. I bought the Total Immersion book and read it cover to cover. It gave me points to think about to convert me from a non-swimmer to a swimmer. It gave me drills and technique fixes. It really, really helped me and made swimming much easier. Of course, I have now spent six plus years unlearning some of the TI techniques but I am forever grateful to Terry Laughlin for teaching so many adults how to swim. It is well worth the read. |
| 2014-05-09 9:06 AM in reply to: wannabefaster |
| 92 | Subject: RE: Flounder in the pool... I will echo what many of the others have said, get a lesson and try and find a coach with tri specific experience as they can help you with things like sighting that you don't have to worry about in the pool. I could swim 1000 yards without stopping but I was slowwwww. 3:15 per hundred. Finally got a 1 hour lesson and instantly shaved 45 seconds to a minute off my 100 yard time. This was all in fixing my body position. So even 1 lesson might make a huge difference. Also, look around for a local tri club that might be doing open water swims this summer and take advantage. I did that before my first race and it paid off huge. More lessons on sighting which is harder than one might think and also just getting used to full contact swimming. It really boosts the confidence before game day. Good Luck, Ron |
| 2014-05-09 9:26 AM in reply to: wannabefaster |
| 15 | Subject: RE: Flounder in the pool... Long time lurker and first time poster here... I am new to any sort of competitive swimming. I read the TI book years ago but never took the time to learn it. I am just now getting back in the pool and have been re-reading the book and watching videos. I am curious as to why you are "unlearning" some of the techniques. Are they not working for you? I am struggling with 50 meters right now and need to be to 300 by the end of June for my first tri. I was thinking TI would be the easiest path. I do have access to a swim coach (not TI), that I can use if needed. -Pete Originally posted by wannabefaster When I started I was essentially starting from zero. I bought the Total Immersion book and read it cover to cover. It gave me points to think about to convert me from a non-swimmer to a swimmer. It gave me drills and technique fixes. It really, really helped me and made swimming much easier. Of course, I have now spent six plus years unlearning some of the TI techniques but I am forever grateful to Terry Laughlin for teaching so many adults how to swim. It is well worth the read. |
| 2014-05-09 10:08 AM in reply to: drb20176 |
| 49 | Subject: RE: Flounder in the pool... Originally posted by drb20176 I'm sure I'm over analyzing this, but hey, I'm a Virgo - I can't help it! I never thought to chalk my swimming inadequacies up to being a Virgo, but I may start. I've been told by two separate swim coaches that they can see me overthinking things in the pool. I'm a terrible swimmer. After two months of weekly swim coaching with two separate coaches, I'm still struggling to do a 50 and my 100y time is somewhere north of 4 minutes. But I am probably an exceptionally slow learner physically. +1 on the recommendation to find a coach. Quite a few people seem to benefit greatly from just a handful of sessions. And put in your time in the pool. It gets better (so they say). |
| 2014-05-09 10:38 AM in reply to: houtexan |
Champion 7036 Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: Flounder in the pool... I was an age group swimmer in my youth (many, many years ago), but seldom swam any races longer than 200M. As I was "re-learning" how to swim for triathlons, I found Total Immersion to be extremely helpful in learning how to swim efficiently over longer distances and not come out of the water exhausted. While reading the book was helpful, the descriptions of some of the drills are bit confusing, and watching the videos helps a lot to learn how to do them properly. There are other authors and resources out there, such as Shiela Taomina and Smoothswimming. While they all approach swimming from a different perspective, they all share very similar fundamentals in terms of body position and efficiency. I swim with members of my tri club once a week and there is usually someone willing to watch you and offer feedback if you ask. Because swimming is so technical and is dependent on developing muscle memory and "feel", I think it's important to swim at least three times a week if you're trying to improve. Don't worry about speed, just perfecting your technique. I buy into the old adage that "Slow is smooth; smooth is fast" Good luck, Mark
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| 2014-05-09 10:56 AM in reply to: RedCorvette |
| 27 | Subject: RE: Flounder in the pool... Another recommendation that you find a coach or swim instructor asap. Be clear with them on your goals, both short term and long term. While you might have a long term goal of ________, let them know you are preparing for a sprint triathlon and you want to be able to swim X distance as part of that event. I bring this up because that will give the coach/instructor the time frame for building your training plan appropriately. Plan to spend lots of time at the beginning just learning proper body position, and work in the distance slowly. |
| 2014-05-09 12:47 PM in reply to: RedCorvette |
Veteran 1100 Dayton | Subject: RE: Flounder in the pool... Originally posted by RedCorvette I was an age group swimmer in my youth (many, many years ago), but seldom swam any races longer than 200M. As I was "re-learning" how to swim for triathlons, I found Total Immersion to be extremely helpful in learning how to swim efficiently over longer distances and not come out of the water exhausted. While reading the book was helpful, the descriptions of some of the drills are bit confusing, and watching the videos helps a lot to learn how to do them properly. There are other authors and resources out there, such as Shiela Taomina and Smoothswimming. While they all approach swimming from a different perspective, they all share very similar fundamentals in terms of body position and efficiency. I swim with members of my tri club once a week and there is usually someone willing to watch you and offer feedback if you ask. Because swimming is so technical and is dependent on developing muscle memory and "feel", I think it's important to swim at least three times a week if you're trying to improve. Don't worry about speed, just perfecting your technique. I buy into the old adage that "Slow is smooth; smooth is fast" Good luck, Mark When I first started swimming laps I went to the library and got a video on swimming technique. I recommend picking up Total Immersion or something similar (you can probably get it from your library), and work your way through the drills. Also, your local Y probably has adult swimming classes. Those are worth your time if you have swimming or water phobias and need some extra guidance and outside stability. |
| 2014-05-10 12:08 AM in reply to: drb20176 |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: Flounder in the pool... Since others have already brought it up I third or fourth the recommendation to look into TI. For disclaimer see my sig line. It's the best next step for you IMO. As far as "unlearning" things, I continue to teach & coach triathletes at all levels using TI principals, some have won national championships, some are Kona qualifiers, some are pros and some have never swum before. (and everything in between). |
| 2014-05-19 6:44 AM in reply to: drb20176 |
| 2 | Subject: RE: Flounder in the pool... Well, at the recommendation of so many of you, I joined a "Stroke Refinement" Class. I'm very happy to say, that during the first session, I actually swam my entire Sprint Tri distance coming up in Oct. Yes, it was warm up, drills, some with fins and floats, and cool down, but I did it so many times that I actually completed 800 yards! She evaluated my stroke, which she said was a actually pretty good, and I need to work on my breathing - which I was already painfully aware of. So, the training continues, but now at a much higher level. Thank you all for your support and advise! |
| 2014-05-19 9:02 AM in reply to: houtexan |
| 631 | Subject: RE: Flounder in the pool... Originally posted by houtexan Long time lurker and first time poster here... I am new to any sort of competitive swimming. I read the TI book years ago but never took the time to learn it. I am just now getting back in the pool and have been re-reading the book and watching videos. I am curious as to why you are "unlearning" some of the techniques. Are they not working for you? I am struggling with 50 meters right now and need to be to 300 by the end of June for my first tri. I was thinking TI would be the easiest path. I do have access to a swim coach (not TI), that I can use if needed. -Pete Originally posted by wannabefaster When I started I was essentially starting from zero. I bought the Total Immersion book and read it cover to cover. It gave me points to think about to convert me from a non-swimmer to a swimmer. It gave me drills and technique fixes. It really, really helped me and made swimming much easier. Of course, I have now spent six plus years unlearning some of the TI techniques but I am forever grateful to Terry Laughlin for teaching so many adults how to swim. It is well worth the read. My understanding is that some people end up over gliding with TI so they need to unlearn that piece. I actually don't think that TI teaches over gliding but it is easy to misinterpret their focus on the glide and turn it into over gliding. |
| 2014-05-19 11:53 AM in reply to: Sidney Porter |
| 106 | Subject: RE: Flounder in the pool... I've never had a swim coach, so I can't give any comments on how effective they are. I just watch the fast, smooth swimmers in the pool and try to mimic what they do. The firs thing I will tell you (the same advice I've given to other new triathletes struggling with swimming): RELAX! I used to work with a guy who the very picture of fitness but couldn't complete one lap in the pool. I never saw him swim, but I asked him to get some data for me. I asked him to count the number of strokes and breaths he was taking. He counted like 35 strokes from one end of the pool to the other and about 17 breaths! I told him no wonder he couldn't swim more than a lap! I'd be exhausted in one lap if I were working that hard. Discussing it more with him it sounded like he was the typical Type A aggressive athlete that approaches everything with as much energy and enthusiasm as possible. Not a bad thing, but it wasn't helping him in swimming. He was beating the water to death with each stroke was kicking hard enough to make a pro soccer player look weak. I told him to slow down, just try to swim slowly from one end to the other as relaxed as possible. Try breathing every three strokes if you can. He took my advice and a few days later he swam 8 laps. |
| 2014-05-22 12:17 AM in reply to: Sidney Porter |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: Flounder in the pool... Originally posted by Sidney Porter Originally posted by houtexan Long time lurker and first time poster here... I am new to any sort of competitive swimming. I read the TI book years ago but never took the time to learn it. I am just now getting back in the pool and have been re-reading the book and watching videos. I am curious as to why you are "unlearning" some of the techniques. Are they not working for you? I am struggling with 50 meters right now and need to be to 300 by the end of June for my first tri. I was thinking TI would be the easiest path. I do have access to a swim coach (not TI), that I can use if needed. -Pete Originally posted by wannabefaster When I started I was essentially starting from zero. I bought the Total Immersion book and read it cover to cover. It gave me points to think about to convert me from a non-swimmer to a swimmer. It gave me drills and technique fixes. It really, really helped me and made swimming much easier. Of course, I have now spent six plus years unlearning some of the TI techniques but I am forever grateful to Terry Laughlin for teaching so many adults how to swim. It is well worth the read. My understanding is that some people end up over gliding with TI so they need to unlearn that piece. I actually don't think that TI teaches over gliding but it is easy to misinterpret their focus on the glide and turn it into over gliding. Agreed, and rereading wannabefaster's post...six years is a really long time to struggle with changes. Come see me, I can help you. |
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